Group: Specific Diets & Nutrition

Created: 2012/01/01, Members: 104, Messages: 22775

With so many diets and nutritional plans out there, you can get lost. Find out what works best for others and share your experiences!

Join group

Soy and estrogen

2003/08/27, 09:45 PM
I know this has been addressed before, but I can't find the exact answer when I search. I keep hearing from many bodybuilders that soy can stimulate estrogen production and be counterproductive to building muscle. That sounds a little crazy to a guy like me who gets maybe 20g (tops) of protein from soy a day, but does that have any truth to it?

--------------
OSU Law Rugby....specializing in personal injury and pain & suffering.
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2003/08/27, 10:22 PM
Some research says yes. I for one stay away from it.

--------------
Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2003/08/27, 10:38 PM
Interesting read....

Is soy bad for you?

New research links the 'health' food to thyroid disorders

By JUDY D'MELLO

SENSITIVE: Soy supplements effectively shut down Dr. Larrian Gillespie's thyroid function within 72 hours.

There isn't a health-minded individual in America who is a stranger to soy. We've all heard about this near-perfect food's miraculous benefits: It reverses osteoporosis, eases the symptoms of menopause, reduces the risk of heart disease, lowers cholesterol and even balances the mood swings associated with PMS. As beef turned into a four-letter word culminating in the mad cow scare, and dairy products were charged with creating allergies, soy became the protein of choice — the healthy alternative to red meat, chicken and milk. It's no wonder food manufacturers and chefs all over the country figured out ways to turn the traditionally watery bean curd into delicious soy ice cream, yogurt, cheese, pasta, burgers and buns.


You may want to hold off before reaching for your next soy wiener, though.


"As little as a 5- to 8-ounce serving of soy milk a day has been proven to suppress thyroid function," says soy researcher and nutritionist Michael Fitzpatrick. Drs. Daniel Sheehan and Daniel Doerge, former senior researchers at the Food and Drug Administration, have strongly opposed the soy industry's proclamation that this humble bean is king. In a 1999 letter, the two scientists stated that rather than tout its health benefits, the FDA should attach a warning label to soy products. "The possibility that widely consumed soy products may cause harm in the human population via either or both estrogenic and activity is of concern," said Sheehan in a recently published study.


Approximately 20 million Americans have some form of thyroid dysfunction — and women are 10 times more likely to suffer from an underactive thyroid (hypothyroidism) than men. The most common symptoms of a hypothyroid patient are lethargy, weight gain, depression, inability to tolerate cold, dry skin, coarse hair and mental "fogginess."


The disorder usually occurs in women following childbirth and at the onset of menopause. By age 75, one in five women has a sluggish thyroid. Yet signs such as weight gain and lack of mental acuity are often chalked up to natural symptoms of the aging process.


The culprit in a high soy diet lies in the isoflavones found in the bean, in particular, genistein. Interestingly, this is the very same ingredient that's been enthusiastically promoted as the remedy for everything from heart disease to mood swings. New research shows otherwise. "The isoflavones in soy act like a hormone in the body," said Dr. Larrian Gillespie, a retired urologist and urogynecologist and author of "The Menopause Diet."(http://www.menopausediet.com) "In many women, especially those who eat large amounts of soy concentrates or take isoflavone supplements, this disturbs the body's hormonal balance, triggering or worsening thyroid problems."


Hundreds of new products


Gillespie speaks from firsthand experience. She first tried soy supplements at the recommended dose of 40 milligrams. "I went into full-blown hypothyroidism within 72 hours," she said. Next she experimented with tofu. "Same results as before, but this time it took me five days to get there."


Gillespie is troubled by the government's recent announcement about the potential risks associated with hormone replacement therapy (HRT), which is followed by 6 million mostly menopausal women in the U.S. Drugs such as Prempro, Premarin and Climara were found to increase the rate of breast cancer and strokes. As a result, Gillespie is bracing for a "new push" for soy products by the industry that promise women a "more natural, risk-free" remedy for hot flashes and bone loss.


Soy is already a big business in the U.S. About 140 billion pounds of soy are produced annually here, making the U.S. one of the world's largest producers and exporters of the bean. Hundreds of soy-based products are introduced each year. According to Sally Fallon, president of the Westin A. Price Foundation (http://www.westinaprice.org/), "Up to 1% of revenue for every soybean sold in America goes toward promoting the benefits of soybeans in the marketplace and maintaining and expanding foreign markets." In short, the soy industry has clout.


Risk of thyroid cancer


A disturbing example of the industry's heft is the marketing of soy-based infant formulas. While considered a life-saver for the roughly 3% to 4% of infants who are lactose-intolerant, this "healthy" alternative is so vigorously advertised that it claims a whopping 25% share of total infant formula sales. "It's criminal that soy formulas are being sold in the marketplace," says Fallon. "Infants who are exclusively fed soy formula get 10 times the dose of phytoestrogens found in a healthy Asian diet. Such excess can be harmful."


Fallon also points out that the soy industry has known since the 1950s that soy formulas contain thyroid-suppressing agents. Though many have lobbied to have isoflavones removed from soy formulas, the high cost of doing so has prevented it from happening.


For infants, any amount of soy is too much, according to the Soy Online Service (http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/). Unborn children exposed to high levels of antithyroid agents, the Web site says, are at high risk for prematurity and reproductive problems. Fitzpatrick, who heads the online service, also believes that longterm feeding of soy formulas can raise the risk of thyroid cancer.


Following the money trail might show why more information is not available about these issues in the U.S. Experts believe the regulatory agencies are cowed by the strength of the agricultural companies that dominate the U.S. soy market. Other countries, where there is less economic pressure, have led the way in alerting the public to the potential hazards of soy. In 1996, the British Department of Health issued a warning that the phytoestrogens found in soy formulas could adversely affect infant health. In Switzerland, Australia and New Zealand, health officials recommend a medically monitored diet of soy products for infants and pregnant women.


Marketing, and American exuberance for "a little is good, more is better," account for soy's leap from hippie food, to protein du jour to cure-all, says Mary Shomon, an advocate for thyroid patients and author of "Living Well With Hypothyroidism." "Taking a food and turning it into a drug is seriously dangerous," cautions Shomon. "We need to start treating soy as a medicinal food. Take aspirin, for example. Just because we've heard that one a day is beneficial, we don't start taking 10 a day."


A tub of tofu


Proponents of soy have long used the Asian diet as their war cry for pushing high intakes of soy isoflavones. "I went to China," said Gillespie, "and saw how little soy is used in their daily diet. We in America think we must consume an entire tub of tofu in a meal, whereas in Asia a quarter tub is considered a lot for a day."


Moreover, the Asian diet is dramatically different from its American counterpart, containing more fish, fresh fruits and vegetables, and less red meat, chemicals and processed foods. Soy is consumed not only in small quantities by Asians, but often in a fermented state such as tempeh (soybean cake), miso (a paste used in soups) and natto (sticky, boiled soybeans) that are high in Vitamin K. "Look," says Gillespie, "if soy is the answer, then why is the typical image of an old Japanese woman shrunken and bent over?"


In the mid-'90s I fell hard for the hype surrounding the soybean. Believing the experts' claims and looking for a low-fat protein, I became an avid consumer of tofu and a daily 12-ounce soy milk shake. I honestly liked the taste. Even after I was diagnosed with hypothroidism three years ago, I followed my "healthy" eating regimen. No one cautioned me of a possible correlation between my thyroid problem and soy consumption. I was 37 and suffered none of the classic symptoms.


Yet my thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) levels clearly indicated an underactive thyroid. It was only after my son was born, a year after my diagnosis, that I removed soy from my diet. (As an infant, he suffered from gastric distress, and since I was nursing, a friend suggested I go soy-free to eliminate the bean's hard-to-digest properties from my system.) Six months later, I was checked again and my TSH levels were normal. Now, I eat only small amounts of soy, occasionally. I still get checked twice a year, and my levels are still normal.


How much is too much?


While deep-pocketed soy marketers cook up even more ways to ingest the bean, there is, unfortunately, little data as what constitutes an appropriate level of soy intake. Soy Online Service cautions that even 30 milligrams of soy isoflavones a day can wreak havoc on the body's hormonal balance. It advises anyone with a predisposition to thyroid dysfunction to be particularly careful. If, indeed, the Asian diet is one to be emulated, then why not use soy the way they have for thousands of years: in moderation.


Thirty milligrams of soy isoflavones can be found in:


7 ounces of soybeans
4 ounces of tofu
8 ounces of soy milk
1.6 ounces of miso
2.8 ounces of soybean sprouts



--------------
Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2003/08/27, 10:53 PM
But for as many as say it is bad, you can find ones that say it is good...here is another for it!

Soy boosts growth factor in men
APRIL 2001


Science has uncovered a host of soy-related benefits for women over the past decade, but just what's in it for men?

In what is believed to be the first study into the effects of soy protein on men, researchers from Oklahoma State University recently found that men taking a soy protein supplement improved their IGF-1 levels by 100 per cent.

Released from the liver after being stimulated by growth hormone, IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor) is the major regulator of body growth. From about age 30 onwards, men commonly experience a decline in IGF-1 along with growth hormone.

Scientists from Oklahoma State University randomly assigned 64 healthy men to take either soy- or milk-based protein supplements for 3 months. Nineteen of the men were older than 65. The researchers compared levels of IGF-I before and after supplementation.

Dr. Dania A. Khalil presented the group's findings at the Experimental Biology 2001 meeting in Orlando, Florida on 4 April 2001.

She said that IGF-I increased tremendously in both groups - 20% in men using the milk-based protein supplement and nearly 100% in those using soy protein. In the older men on soy protein, serum IGF-I levels more than doubled.

Aussie Bodies nutritionist Leigh Blashki says that although Whey Protein Concentrate has long been the staple protein source for the majority of nutritionally-aware bodybuilders, the benefits of soy protein as an agent in muscle recovery cannot be underestimated.

"WPC has long been shown to precurse and assist growth processes in a number of ways, including the elevation of IGF-1 levels.

"Soy protein, as in Solae (TM) soy protein, contains equally bioactive protein but also contains isoflavones. Because the activity of isoflavones closely mimics that of estrogen, tests to date have focused largely on the ways isoflavones can precurse hormonal regularity and overall health in women, further adding to the misperception that soy protein is a supplement for women.

"But as the Oklahoma study has shown, isoflavones can assist growth and recovery in men by elevating IGF-1. In addition to this, the antioxidant properties in soy isoflavones have been found to shorten recovery time between training sessions by reducing the oxidative stress that leads to exercise-induced injury."

Australian products containing Solae(TM) include Life Protein Shake, Life Pure Soy Protein and Life Harmony Protein Bar.


references

WebMD

Rossi AL, Blostein-Fujii A, DiSilvestro RA. Soy Beverage Consumption by Young Men: Increased Plasma Total Antioxidant Status and Decreased Acute, Exercise-Induced Muscle Damage. Journal of Nutraceuticals, Functional and Medical Foods. Vol.3(1) 2000




--------------
Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
2003/08/28, 09:55 AM
wow...thanks for the articles. Seems like another issue we may never get a totally definitive answer on. I guess I'll try to keep my soy low, but probably won't eliminate it completely from my diet.

--------------
OSU Law Rugby....specializing in personal injury and pain & suffering.
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2003/08/28, 10:34 AM
I personally don't go out of my way to get soy, but the soy that is in products I don't worry about. Your approach is probably a good one.

--------------
Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
rockandorroll
rockandorroll
Posts: 65
Joined: 2003/05/22
Canada
2003/08/28, 11:09 AM
The only thing I really eat that has soy are veggie burgers a few times a week. I think I am going to cut back or cut them out all together. Good info.
azredhead57
azredhead57
Posts: 1,651
Joined: 2003/04/11
United States
2003/08/28, 02:12 PM
I don't buy the stuff about the thyroid problems. I eat a good amount of things with soy in them, as does my husband, since we have a problem with dairy. I have blood work done for my thyroid every 6 months and it never changes. Of course it may affect men differently. I also take soy isoflavones every morning. I attribute my lack of hot flashes to that. I suppose it is like everything else and should be judged on an individual basis.

--------------
~Victoria~
...There are no shortcuts to any place worth going.--Beverly Sills
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2003/08/28, 02:47 PM
This is probably the key line. The jury is still out on this, and you should do what works for you in this case. As always, the media is usually wrong, so the best bet may be to do the opposite of what they say!! LOL....

============
Quoting from azredhead57:

I suppose it is like everything else and should be judged on an individual basis.


=============


--------------
Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron