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2004/02/03, 09:28 AM
Ok I have trouble getting enough protein through foods each day especially w/ my breakfast my question is. Is drinking milk a good way source of protein? It has 8grams per cup and I could easily get at least 20-30 in one sitting?
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2004/02/03, 12:09 PM
Lots of sugar.
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2004/02/03, 01:28 PM
It is a dairy protien though. Doesn't that make it a slow digesting (casien) protien?
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- Its never about how much you can lift, or how many reps you do. Its just about doing it, and doing it right.
- If your hungry all the time, your not eating enough. And anyways, being hungry sucks.
~Brad~
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2004/02/03, 01:34 PM
11 gr. of carbs per 8 oz. glass, all sugar. Try cottage cheese in place of it for good casein protein. If you are after calcium, much better dietary sources for it....
sunflower seeds, sesame seeds and figs are some of the best
calcium sources around, because all three deliver calcium,
magnesium and phosphorus.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/03, 02:53 PM
BB1-Well Im usually about 20-30 calories short each day on protein. Im trying to find other sources thats are easy and accessible to me.
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2004/02/03, 03:43 PM
Try soy milk...a cup has about the same amount of protein as regular milk.
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**_Robert_**
Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
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2004/02/03, 04:12 PM
I would die if I ever became lactose intolerant....ARGH! I still go through a gallon every day and a half.... Yum!
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Michael
Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!
Chaos, Panic, Disorder.... Yes, my work here is done!
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2004/02/03, 05:01 PM
So whats the final verdict? YAY or nay????
Rpacheco-Does soy milk taste the same?
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2004/02/03, 05:06 PM
I drink both regular (2% or skim) milk and soy (vanilla flavor). Soy milk does not taste the same, but goes well with my high protein cereal in the morning. It is also an ingredient in my post-workout shake.
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**_Robert_**
Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
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2004/02/03, 05:45 PM
Does soy taste different for the better?
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2004/02/04, 03:18 PM
I thought soy was bad for you if yoou are younger?? thought I read that in flex one time?.............soy tastes kinda like slimfast
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---andrew.......adversity causes some to break, but others to break records!
LEAVE YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR!!
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2004/02/04, 03:24 PM
Goldenglovessaid
" Does soy taste different for the better? "
You will never know unless you try it. I love my soy shakes but I'm not crazy about straight soy milk.
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Its like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/02/04, 08:01 PM
Some food for thought...
From Dr. Joseph Mercola.....
In recent years soy has emerged as a ‘near perfect’ food, with supporters claiming it can provide an ideal source of protein, lower cholesterol, protect against cancer and heart disease, reduce menopause symptoms, and prevent osteoporosis, among other things.
However, numerous studies have found that soy products may:
Increase the risk of breast cancer in women, brain damage in both men and women, and abnormalities in infants
Contribute to thyroid disorders, especially in women
Promote kidney stones
Weaken the immune system
Cause severe, potentially fatal food allergies
Perhaps the most disturbing of soy’s ill effects on health has to do with its phytoestrogens that can mimic the effects of the female hormone estrogen. These phytoestrogens have been found to have adverse effects on various human tissues, and drinking even two glasses of soy milk daily for one month has enough of the chemical to alter a woman’s menstrual cycle.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/05, 10:11 AM
What study is this BB1? Where can we see it.
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Its like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/02/05, 08:54 PM
Charlie...here is one..
Soy Can Lead to Kidney Stones
New research indicates that soybeans and soy-based foods, a staple in the diets of many health-conscious consumers, may promote kidney stones in those prone to the painful condition.
The researchers measured nearly a dozen varieties of soybeans for oxalate, a compound that can bind with calcium in the kidney to form kidney stones.
They also tested 13 types of soy-based foods, finding enough oxalate in each to potentially cause problems for people with a history of kidney stones, according to Linda Massey, Ph.D., at Washington State University in Spokane.
The amount of oxalate in the commercial products easily eclipsed the American Dietetic Association's 10 milligram-per-serving recommendation for patients with kidney stones, with some foods reaching up to 50 times higher than the suggested limit, she noted.
"Under these guidelines, no soybean or soy- food tested could be recommended for consumption by patients with a personal history of kidney stones," she said.
No one had previously examined soy foods for oxalate, thus the researchers are the first to identify oxalate in store-bought products like tofu, soy cheese and soy drinks. Other foods, such as spinach and rhubarb, also contain significant oxalate levels, but are not as widely consumed for their presumed health benefits, Massey said.
During their testing, the researchers found the highest oxalate levels in textured soy protein, which contains up to 638 milligrams of oxalate per 85-gram serving.
Soy cheese had the lowest oxalate content, at 16 milligrams per serving. Spinach, measured during previous research, has approximately 543 milligrams per one-cup (2 oz. fresh) serving.
Soy, a natural source of protein, fiber and healthy oils, is used to enhance a myriad of foods, ranging from hamburgers to ice cream. It can be ground into flour and used in a variety of grain products, or formed into chunks and ground like meat.
Soy is also being studied for its potential to lower cholesterol, reduce bone loss and prevent breast cancer. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently approved a new label on foods containing at least 6.25 grams of soy protein per serving that boasts of a reduced risk of cardiovascular disease.
Oxalate, however, cannot be metabolized by the body and is excreted only through urine, Massey said. The compound has no nutritional value, but binds to calcium to form a mass (kidney stones) that can block the urinary system, she said.
Further research is needed to find types of soybeans with less oxalate, or to develop a processing method to remove the compound before it reaches consumers, she added.
No one knows precisely why kidney stones occur in particular individuals.
But Massey said high levels of oxalate in the urine increase the risk and those with a family history of the ailment are more likely to suffer from the condition; individuals with a low probability of kidney stones are unlikely to be affected by oxalate in soy-based foods.
More than one million people were diagnosed with kidney stones in the United States in 1996, the most recent available data, according to the National Institutes of Health.
Stones can range in size from the diameter of a grain of rice to the width of a golf ball. An estimated 10 percent of the U.S. population, mostly men, will develop a kidney stone at some point in their lives, according to the NIH.
Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry September 2001
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Quoting from charlie826:
What study is this BB1? Where can we see it.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/05, 08:56 PM
Here is another...
Exposure of infants to phyto-oestrogens from soy-based infant formula.
Setchell KD, Zimmer-Nechemias L, Cai J, Heubi JE.
Clinical Mass Spectrometry Center, Children's Hospital Medical Center, Cincinnati, Ohio 45229, USA.
BACKGROUND: The isoflavones genistein, daidzein, and their glycosides, found in high concentrations in soybeans and soy-protein foods, may have beneficial effects in the prevention or treatment of many hormone-dependent diseases. Because these bioactive phyto-oestrogens possess a wide range of hormonal and non-hormonal activities, it has been suggested that adverse effects may occur in infants fed soy-based formulas. METHODS: To evaluate the extent of infant exposure to phyto-oestrogens from soy formula, the isoflavone composition of 25 randomly selected samples from five major brands of commercially available soy-based infant formulas were analysed, and the plasma concentrations of genistein and daidzein, and the intestinally derived metabolite, equol, were compared in 4-month-old infants fed exclusively soy-based infant formula (n = 7), cow-milk formula (n = 7), or human breast-milk (n = 7). FINDINGS: All of the soy formulas contained mainly glycosides of genistein and daidzein, and the total isoflavone content was similar among the five formulas analysed and was related to the proportion of soy isolate used in their manufacture. From the concentrations of isoflavones in these formulas (means 32-47 micrograms/mL), the typical daily volume of milk consumed, and average bodyweight, a 4-month-old infant fed soy formula would be exposed to 28-47 per day, or about 4.5-8.0 mg/kg bodyweight per day, of total isoflavones. Mean (SD) plasma concentrations of genistein and daidzein in the seven infants fed soy-based formulas were 684 (443) ng/mL and 295 (60) ng/mL, respectively, which was significantly greater (p < 0.05) than in the infants fed either cow-milk formulas (3.2 and 2.1 ng/mL), or human breast-milk (2.8 and 1.4 ng/mL), and an order of magnitude higher per bodyweight than typical plasma concentrations of adults consuming soy foods. INTERPRETATION: The daily exposure of infants to isoflavones in soy infant-formulas is 6-11 fold higher on a bodyweight basis than the dose that has hormonal effects in adults consuming soy foods. Circulating concentrations of isoflavones in the seven infants fed soy-based formula were 13000-22000 times higher than plasma oestradiol concentrations in early life, and may be sufficient to exert biological effects, whereas the contribution of isoflavones from breast-milk and is negligible.
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Quoting from charlie826:
What study is this BB1? Where can we see it.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/05, 09:02 PM
One more....and these are just for your reading, I did not do them. But they give me enough alarm to stay away from soy. Dr. Mercola is one of the finest doctors and researchers there is in my opinion...
Soy Can Cause Severe Allergic Reactions
A Swedish study shows that soy, like its botanically-related cousin the peanut, could be responsible for severe, potentially fatal, cases of food allergy, particularly in children with asthma who are also very sensitive to peanuts. Soy has probably been underestimated as a cause of food anaphylaxis" and that "labeling of foods containing soy protein should be improved. Between 1993 and 1996, 61 cases of severe reactions to food were reported, including 5 that were fatal. Peanut, soy and tree nuts caused 45 of the 61 reactions. Including two cases that occurred shortly before the study began, four deaths could be attributed to soy, say the researchers. All four of the youngsters who died from soy anaphylaxis were allergic to peanuts but had no known allergy to soy. In most cases, after consuming the food containing soy, there were no symptoms for 30 to 90 minutes. However, that period of no or mild symptoms was followed by severe and rapidly deteriorating asthma. Those most at risk for developing a severe reaction to soy are young people with asthma and severe peanut allergy, say the researchers. In cases where the allergy was fatal, the amount of soy consumed varied between 1 and 10 grams. Such an amount may occur in hidden form in hamburgers, meatballs, kebabs, sausages, and bread, but rarely in other foods.
Allergy 1999;54:261-265.
COMMENT: Yet another reason to avoid soy protein.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/05, 09:40 PM
These indicate soy is bad for people prone to kidney stones, infants when used for formula and adults with allergies to soy. Am I missing somthing?? Does this mean soy is unhealthy for the average person?
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Its like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/02/05, 09:57 PM
I cannot say that it is unhealthy, I just read the first link I posted for "food for thought". It is enough evidence for me to stay away from it. I personally avoid soy. Here is the link for you to look at, and you can draw your own conclusions.
http://mercola.com/2004/jan/31/food_warnings.htm
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/05, 11:02 PM
I scanned it. I'll read it tomorrow. I can take or leave the soy but the bread thing is not gonna make me happy I don't think.
Thanks Ron..as usual very informative
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Its like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/02/05, 11:32 PM
Personally, I have not eaten wheat bread or wheat products in a very long time. Stopped them long ago on other studies well before this one, and this one just adds to my resolve.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/06, 10:07 AM
What in the world?!?!?! I am at my wits end here... I am trying to eat healthy and stick with my diet and every time I do, I find out something that was supposedly healthy is now considered unhealthy... I have soy protein shakes and eat alot of wheat bread, thinking both were good for me... Now they are not... I don't know hat to do, I am so freakin frustrated. I don't know what I can and can't eat anymore. Sometimes I think I may as well go back to eating burgers and fries, because everything I thought I was doing well by eating is now bad for me. I am so frustrated....
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2004/02/06, 10:23 AM
Does this mean I shouldn't be eating any bread at all? I don't know I am so irritated that I do all this research and find something is good for you, and hten just as much comes along to tell me its bad. What can I do?!
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2004/02/06, 10:29 AM
Just keep eating a balanced diet. You are doing fine. If you eat whole wheat bread you will not die tomorrow. It is much healthier than white bread. Don't get too overly concerned about some of these studies. I post some of them for folks knowlege and to mull over to their own thoughts. It is simply a presentation on my part as a mod to post evidence to everything. Some I believe in, some I don't. I personally am not a fan of soy or wheat, haven't been for years, but that is my own preference. Just eat healthy, you are doing fine. Remember one thing, the mainstream media is normally wrong in the end though.
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Quoting from weightnomore:
Does this mean I shouldn't be eating any bread at all? I don't know I am so irritated that I do all this research and find something is good for you, and hten just as much comes along to tell me its bad. What can I do?!
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/06, 10:41 AM
Thanks bb, do you think it's bad over the long term to eat wheat bread or soy? Has anyone ever tried GenSoy Protein Shakes? (I know Charlie mentioned he likes soy shakes, maybe he has) Are they any good for you? That's what I am using now. Everything is just so confusing. For example, I used to drink 2 glasses of cranberry juice a day, now I find its bad for me and I have cut it off. I just don't know... I can't find anything that I KNOW is good for me.
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2004/02/06, 11:45 AM
I do know that studies come, go and perpetually change directions. I have to use common sense. I will continue with my wheat bread and a few soy shakes a week. It has to be better than the diet of pizza, burgers beer and Jack Daniels that I was on for a while.
weightnomore, I am in none of the risk categories that these studies site for soy products. My wifes Dr reccommended them for some of her female problems. The wheat bread is disconcerting to say the least.
BB1 is probably the most trusworthy and knowlegable person I know on these matters. I follow his advice 95% of the time. He is in my age group which makes me pay even more attention.
In this case though, I'm gonna go have a tuna on whole wheat!!!!!!!! LOL
You are still the man Ron!
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Its like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/02/06, 12:06 PM
I'll have to agree on directional changes which occur in mainstream media. For many years, articles were written that stated tea was healthier than coffee. Now, tides have turned. First, wine was healthier than beer. Now, they say beer is healthier.
Take it with a grain of salt I guess. But, how about those vegetarians/vegans whose main protein source is soy?
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**_Robert_**
Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
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2004/02/06, 02:23 PM
Good post Charlie. I learned of problems from wheat years ago, long before I ever started bodybuilding, just into health. Gluten can be a big problem. Soy also. I for one do not do either, and I think it a big problem (lying) when for instance a loaf of what you think is 100% whole wheat bread, says so big letters all over the loaf, when by these same FDA standards, this is fine as long as 40% of the grain is from whole wheat! And this does not mean in that one loaf, but 40% of the grain in the whole 1000 lb. batch! Only researchers that do not have an interest in a products compsumption, i.e...make some money off of it, would tell you any dangers. The mainstream media will tell you of dangers with things once problems have been exposed, then in some cases it is too late. I am 100% into my health first and foremost, bodybuilding is a distant second. I choose to go with the folks who are uncovering mass media lies and inuendos all in the name of a dollar. You most likely will not die from wheat bread, it is much healthier(I assume, depending on manufacturing processes), than white bread(which at one point was "builds strong bodies 12 ways"), remember that lie??...and milk, remember this...."it does a body good"? Do they tell you of the hormones they inject cows with these days, the antibiotics? Some healthy researchers are bringing out this stuff now. And milk full of calcium, but calcium needs Vit. D and maganesium for absorbtion, and phosphorus can help. Any one see any magniesium in milk? Much better sources of calcium out there without the antibiotics...I could go on here, as I said, health is my first passion, has been for many, many years. This is why I post this information, to alert some folks to research out there that is hidden. If it helps some, then good, and those who choose to ignore it, fine also. It is tough going against he "mainstream", you are usually called a nut or something, but this ihow good advancements are made. Otherwise till something happens, then later folks will say, hey I knew a guy who said that! Anyway, peace and good health to all of you!
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Quoting from charlie826:
I do know that studies come, go and perpetually change directions. I have to use common sense. I will continue with my wheat bread and a few soy shakes a week. It has to be better than the diet of pizza, burgers beer and Jack Daniels that I was on for a while.
weightnomore, I am in none of the risk categories that these studies site for soy products. My wifes Dr reccommended them for some of her female problems. The wheat bread is disconcerting to say the least.
BB1 is probably the most trusworthy and knowlegable person I know on these matters. I follow his advice 95% of the time. He is in my age group which makes me pay even more attention.
In this case though, I'm gonna go have a tuna on whole wheat!!!!!!!! LOL
You are still the man Ron!
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
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2004/02/06, 02:51 PM
With the patient help of Ron and Robert, Mutt and many others here, my lifting numbers are beyond my wildest dreams. My body fat has dropped ten points. I no longer smoke. My cheat times are meals instead of days.
I am 50 and can do and lift more than many people half my age. The most important and amazing difference is how I feel. And Tony the tiger sums that up best.
Peace kiddies.
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Its like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/02/06, 04:30 PM
way to go Charlie ..you are an inspiration !
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2004/02/06, 04:39 PM
Still wish I could herd cats like you Charlie (LOL)!
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**_Robert_**
Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
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2004/02/06, 07:28 PM
Its a gift only cat haters are blessed with Robert. I did change the quote a bit though.
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Some times life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/02/07, 01:19 AM
Okay back on the studies discussions for what's good and bad. I will give you the study on food allergies but at the same time, eatting tuna fish can be potentially deadly as can peanuts and several other foods out there, and some of the worst offenders such as seafood and soy can appear to form a sudden allergy to it. For instance I've eatten shrimp my whole life (never really liked it much but ate it) I ordered an egg roll last year took one bite and my throat swelled up, I had to go to the hospital almost immediately for a shot, and soy has much the same reputation for sudden allergic reactions when no allergy was apparent before hand, there's many other foods out there that you can increase your reaction to just from frequently eatting them when you at first only have a mild reaction to them, the biggest offenders there are berries. As to the sugars in milk and the slower digesting protein sources I have mixed beliefs there, I can understand a person that is lactose intolerate drinking soy as an alternative, but I don't see why an average person should have to do the same. Stick with lowfat or skim milk (if you can stand the taste of skim) or even go all out for whole milk, it's still healthy for you in my opinion and carries a lot less risks than drinking soy which is one of the more common food allergies out there I think it comes in second to shell fish and possibly just behind peanuts as well, and just like with peanuts and shellfish just because you ate it a few times or a lot of times without a reaction doesn't mean that you won't ever have one, and doesn't mean that with only a mild allergy that you're not causing harm to yourself even if you're not breaking out in hives or noticing any difficulties breathing, allergies can present themselves in more ways than what we typically think of as a reaction, and many times those forms are not caught by health care professionals until the damage is already done and even then more damage can be done while they attempt to trace the source. Just my two cents though <G> not a doctor by any means, just a veterinarian assistant for many years and doctor of an EMT who used to pick up several people choking on peanuts and shell-fish and yes even soy products.
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2004/02/07, 01:23 AM
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Just my two cents though <G> not a doctor by any means, just a veterinarian assistant for many years and doctor of an EMT who used to pick up several people choking on peanuts and shell-fish and yes even soy products.
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Heh, that was supposed to be daughter of an EMT not doctor, I must have doctors on the brain... or it's just entirely too late <G>
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2005/05/10, 12:43 AM
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Quoting from starznight:
For instance I've eatten shrimp my whole life (never really liked it much but ate it) I ordered an egg roll last year took one bite and my throat swelled up, I had to go to the hospital almost immediately for a shot
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Just a thought... perhaps it wasn't the shrimp that caused it?
"Chinese" food (not really, but that's what we call it here in America...) such as egg rolls generally contain a lot of crap, so to speak. And if I do recall correctly, they are often fried in oils containing peanut products, among other things. It is possible you had a reaction to something else, unless you've pinpointed it to being shrimp somehow.
About the original topic, I'm a bit up in arms, personally, about milk. I don't love milk, but I do like cottage cheese, and it's a really strong protein source, but I think I'm becoming lactose intolerant like my parents... I get the 'farts of doom' upon consuming any dairy, more than a tiny amount. :(
Additionally, from Mercola.com, I'm a bit wary of drinking the milk commercially available. I'd read studies on the dangers of milk, and he's now saying that it's not milk itself, but the way our industries manufacture it, that is dangerous. So unless I meet a farmer anytime soon... I will be seeking a replacement.
Which is a bit of a drag, since I get anywhere from 30-50g of protein a day from cottage cheese and often use milk in cereals/protein shakes.
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2005/05/10, 01:43 AM
broham that post was from 2004. interesting though I woould say screw it and eat your cottage cheese good source of cassein.
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I am that
which must be feared, worshipped and adored. The world is mine
now and forever.No one holds command over me. No man. No god. I am ANIMAL! and that is enough.
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