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2004/03/01, 11:39 PM
Back sqauts should be considerably easier than back sqauts right? Well, apparently, my front squat PR is much, much higher than my back. I struggle with my back sqauts. I need a lot more power and strength coming from my butt, hips and quads but if I can't back squat how can I get that power? I hate back squats. - I never ignored them but I would much rather do front sqauts. I know a few female lifters that have the same problem. Is that weird? Why would I be better/heavier with fronts?
McManus
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2004/03/01, 11:50 PM
" hate back squats. - I never ignored them but I would much rather do front sqauts."
I think that may be your problem. Regular squats, are one of (if not THE) most difficult lifts in the world. Doing them correctly is basically Hell on earth. My advice: Back off of the front squats, and focus on regular squats. Drop the pounds if you must, but get that form right. Cycle in some variety in training them, such as box squats, speed/percents, even chains or bands. Stroll through this thread for some great programs as well - many have been discussed.
Hope that helps some. If not, let us know. Good luck!
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Michael
Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!
Chaos, Panic, Disorder.... Yes, my work here is done!
rev8ball@freetrainers.com
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2004/03/02, 07:26 AM
I cant have a real problem with the front ones. My balance is all thrown off with them. I had to use a smith machine to do them. On the other hand the standard back squat I have down pat. _ Mike
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I am that
which must be feared, worshipped and adored. The world is mine
now and forever.No one holds command over me. No man. No god.
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2004/03/02, 07:45 PM
Lots of times I see girls trying to do the too "proper".....let me explain.........most people that start out try to go straight down and straight up( back straight, legs straight,feet shoulder width, toes striaght ahead) fact the matter is very few people have the flexability to do this range of motion......me my back is straight, however my legs are a lil more than shoulder width apart and my toes point out, and when i squate i stick my butt out and back, and I lean over ( just a lil bit) You can lean over as long as your chest don't go past your toes or knees,..........more than likly you can do front squats easier cause your straight, and you think thats the way back squats have to be done, not true.......find a stance and bar posistion that is comfy for you and squat......do the bar over and over agin tell you find your lil niche.....you'll know when you find it cause it will feel natural. This vary in stances is due to back strength , abb strength, hip, knee, anckle flexability.......and of coarse leg length determines too the stance you need
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.......adversity causes some to break, but others to break records!
......minds are not vessles to be filled, but fires to be enlightened
......Confucious once said ,DO NOT play leap frog with a unicorn
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2004/03/03, 08:57 AM
Proper squat technique:
Stance: Feet width will vary. Each person's comfort zone will vary. The bottom line is keep 75% of your body weight on your heels. I prefer a wider than shoulder width foot placement.
Bar Placement: This will also vary. Some people prefer the high bar placement while other prefer the lower placement. I place mine on the middle of my traps where the top of my scapula start. I also pinch my traps tight together to form a solid ridge for the bar to sit on.
Movement: squat down and back not just down. Push your butt back as you squat. Keep your back flat. Get parellel on each rep. The easiest way to learn parallel is to do box squats. Drive through the heel. Keep the chest and chin up. Bull the neck into the bar.
Push your belly out. Some people will tell you to draw in. I push my belly out and keep my abs and low back tight.
Train your abs, low back, traps, and hamstrings hard and good luck!
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2004/03/03, 11:03 AM
Please clarify a squat question. The length of my legs makes it such that when I squat down and sit on the bench, my thigh tops aren't completely parallel to the deck. My knee joints are bent slightly more than 90 degrees.The form in the mirror looks like Georges form in the FT squat description. The geometry of my laig bones is just not gonna let my thighs be parallell to the deck unless my ass sits down on my heel.:(:dumbbell::(
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Some times life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/03/03, 11:10 AM
I look at hip to knee relationship. Parallel is when you can draw a line from the hip to the knee that is parallel to the floor. Thighs can be misleading.
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2004/03/03, 11:17 AM
yes my quads are quite large there fore when I go parallel I look as if I need to go 2 more inches than most. However you you look at my knee in relationship to my hips and the floor they make a 90 degree angle like they are soposed to. This was under most scrunity in high school, peopel thought coach was going easier on me on squats when in fact I was parallel. Now though I do below parallel squats, to where my hams and butt are almost on my calves, so now my top of my legs actually look parallel if not a lil under that.
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.......adversity causes some to break, but others to break records!
......minds are not vessles to be filled, but fires to be enlightened
......Confucious once said ,DO NOT play leap frog with a unicorn
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2004/03/03, 12:19 PM
Ata physical recently my Dr had me show him how far down I squatted and he was really adamant about not going down any further than I was. Don't know if its an age thing or not. I definitly go just a bit past 90 degrees in the bend at the knees so I'll leave it there.
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Some times life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/03/03, 01:42 PM
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Quoting from charlie826:
Ata physical recently my Dr had me show him how far down I squatted and he was really adamant about not going down any further than I was. Don't know if its an age thing or not. I definitly go just a bit past 90 degrees in the bend at the knees so I'll leave it there.
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It's probably not so much an age thing as an old school medical training line of thought. Many research studies of highly experienced deep squatters have shown no ill effects from parallels squats (and beyond - as long as the lifters are not bouncing from a rock bottom postion).
Despite these studies, many (probably the vast majority) of MDs, Physios, Athletic therapists/trainers and even fitness trainers adhere to the mantra that squatting any deeper than 90 degrees of knee flexion (a 1/2 squat) is dangerous. To the credit of the NSCA, they refute this fallacy.
My opinion is that doing only 1/2 squats exclusively is far more risky than full squats because a person will be working with about 2-3x as much weight as they would if they were doing proper parallel squats (as Gatormade described).
When this happens people start placing loads on their back they haven't properly conditioned themselves for and they are also less likey to get proper safe spotting. Try explaining this to a Doctor or physio or trainer who has no serious heavy lifting experience. I actually wrote a paper or two about this while in undegraduate and graduate school.
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2004/03/03, 01:59 PM
More confused than ever. If I use my bench as a squat gage is that a full squat??
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Some times life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/03/03, 07:55 PM
Charlie, I think part of the confusion lies in the fact that the range of motion involved in a squat is often described in different ways. Parallel squats have often been described as descending until the tops of the thighs are parallel to the ground. The problem with this description is that it does not account for considerable dfferences among individuals thigh size and for many people is not really an achievable position.
A more meaningful description of a parallel squat is as Gatormade used previously. If you draw a straight line from the center of the knee joint to the center of the hip joint, this line is parallel to the ground. BTW - joint center meaning the approx. point (or axis) those joints rotate around. In this case, a parallel squat is what I would also refer to as a full squat and going beyond that point as a deep squat.
If you go back to the picture in the FT description you'll notice that if you drew a line from knee joint centre to hip jioint center that it is pretty close to parallel (although hard to tell precisely without a direct side view).
Also notice in that picture the angle of his knee joints. Knee joint angle is determined by drawing a line from the center of the ankle to the center of the knee and another line from the center of the knee to the center of the hip joint. When standing upright this angle is about 0 degrees. As you can see in the picture when at the bottom of the squat position, his knee joint angle is way past 90 degrees - probably closer to 120 degrees.
The best way to determine for yourself what joint positions you reach when squatting is to get a buddy to snap some digital pics directly from your side while you are performing them and them measure from the pics.
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2004/03/04, 10:14 AM
How tall are you? How tall is the bench? Find a bench that when you sit on allows your hip and knee to align parallel to the floor. Then use that same bench or box when you squat.
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2004/03/04, 10:16 AM
Thanks guys
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Some times life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/03/04, 10:18 AM
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Quoting from bigandrew:
Lots of times I see girls trying to do the too "proper".....
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Why use the word girl when in fact both genders do the same thing? I train the Florida Volleyball team and they are great squatters. Gender has nothing to do with it.
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2004/03/04, 10:20 AM
Squat depth also depends on training experience. Your range of motion will get better the longer you train. Start with light box squats that get you parallel. This is the best way to learn how to squat properly. The box teaches you how to come to the same depth every rep. It also teaches you how to come out of the hole. See my posts on box squats under the heading of Box squats with bands
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2004/03/04, 10:43 AM
Matt thats how I learned in the beginning. I am 6 feet tall. My bench is the standard 18 inches. The length of everybodys lower shanks logically would cause the angle to vary slightly. I have used your box squat routine for a while.
ususarktos thanks for your descriptions. We are moving into a new condo. I will be installing mirrors to use for policing my form. We deliberatly picked the new place because it had a slab basement where I can workout. The old house tended to shake a little with some of my exercises. You could feel the floor move.
Thanks fellows.
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Quoting from gatormade:
Squat depth also depends on training experience. Your range of motion will get better the longer you train. Start with light box squats that get you parallel. This is the best way to learn how to squat properly. The box teaches you how to come to the same depth every rep. It also teaches you how to come out of the hole. See my posts on box squats under the heading of Box squats with bands
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Some times life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2004/03/05, 04:20 PM
Picked up Arnolds big book today and my wife ordered me some Westside barbell tapes on squatting, DL, and bench. Can't wait.:big_smile:
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The greatest mystery of life is who we truly are.
Charlie
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