|
2004/04/08, 04:46 PM
By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY
If they're natural, they must be safe, right? Not so, say researchers at Consumer Reports magazine.
• Rice says U.S. 'had an allergy' to domestic threats
• Shiite militias control parts of three Iraqi cities; foreigners kidnapped
• 13 foreigners reported kidnapped in Iraq
• Paris train stations evacuated because of bomb alert
• UConn women earn 3-peat title
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Search USATODAY.com
Snapshots
USA TODAY Snapshot
How many hours per year do you listen to music?
More USA TODAY Snapshots
In a report in the May issue, the consumer publication found a dozen herbal supplements - some banned in Asia, Europe and Canada but widely available in the USA - that may cause cancer, kidney or liver damage and even death.
They include:
• Aristolochia, linked to kidney failure and cancer.
• Yohimbe, linked to heart and respiratory problems.
• Bitter orange, similar to ephedra, the banned weight-loss supplement believed responsible for 155 deaths nationwide.
The researchers also cited chaparral, comfrey, germander, kava and scullcap, all of which are known or likely causes of liver failure; lobella because of its impact on the heart; and pennyroyal oil because of possible liver, kidney and nerve damage.
Two of these supplements have already been acted on by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites). Organ/glandular extracts are affected by FDA restrictions on the use of bovine materials in supplements because of the risk of mad cow disease.
And in March, then-FDA commissioner Mark McClellan warned companies to stop selling the bodybuilding supplement androstenedione (andro).
"A lot of people believe that herbal supplements are safe because they've been used for years in traditional medicine," says senior editor Nancy Metcalf. But "when they went looking for problems in China, they found plenty of them."
The findings highlight the lack of oversight. A 1994 law, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, has been seen as tying the hands of regulators because it requires the FDA to allow the sale of any supplement it cannot prove is unsafe.
But a recent report by the National Institutes of Medicine says flat out that the FDA doesn't need direct evidence of human harm to stop sales of dangerous supplements. It's enough to establish the danger using animal or test-tube studies, or even with reports of problems from similar products.
Manufacturers should be required to report side effects and include a phone number on packaging for consumers who want to do so, the panel said.
Meanwhile, the FDA has sent warning letters to 16 dietary-supplement distributors found to be making false and misleading claims on the Internet for weight-loss products. Many claim to block starch, carbohydrates and fat calories, creating weight loss without any lifestyle changes.
Not all supplements are snake oil, Consumer Reports says. It identified three that show possible benefits and low risks, including saw palmetto for benign enlarged prostate, glucosamine and chondroitin for arthritis, and fish oil capsules for heart health.
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
|
|
2004/04/08, 05:24 PM
I think some of these people like attacking the supplement world because they aren't making money off of it. True if it is harmfull to humans it shouldn't be sold, but humans and animals have different systems, whats poisonus to use may not be to them and vice versa. People should be smart and not do stupid things and follow perscribed amounts to, they should also look at what there putting into there bodies and what the effects are before they do it.
--------------
A determined mind is the best weapon in any situation, a strong body is the road to victory. G.R.C.
|
|
2004/04/08, 06:49 PM
I read this article.....I happen to agree with this list myself.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/08, 09:11 PM
Now, the above being said, I do not think those were good supplements. But I do have a problem with a couple things, what is Consumer Reports doing analyzing supplements anyway. They rate cars, trucks, appliances...I think they should stay in their field.
And then there is this statement..A 1994 law, the Dietary Supplement Health and Education Act, has been seen as tying the hands of regulators because it requires the FDA to allow the sale of any supplement it cannot prove is unsafe.
Well, this just happens to be the law that protects our right to purchase supplements. This is the case and should be. The FDA would love nothing more than to get rid of this DSHEA. Scare tactics work, and if the general public "saftey groups" that have nothing better to do start getting in on the act, there could be a real danger here for us.
Don't be "fooled" by their wanting to do good and help us out..they want to regulate the industry folks! Protect your supplements.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/09, 08:38 AM
The government seems to be wanting to restrcit everything these days, and supplements are up for grabs:angry:. Damn Geroge Buh and his Christian agenda.
|
|
2004/04/09, 09:11 AM
Has anyone read the possible side effects for most prescription drugs???????
--------------
If you fall down seven times, get up eight.
|
|
2004/04/09, 09:19 AM
Hey asimmer, one of my teachers told us once that all drugs are simply a series of side effects, some of which are desirable. I agree, it's easier to OD on Nyquil and just as easy to OD by taking to many aspirin. God forbid they take these off of the market.
|
|
2004/04/09, 10:07 AM
More people die on a daily basis due to side effects from some of the most popular prescription drugs than ever do from supplements. Intelligent supplementation with nutritional supplements will only increase health and vitality, and keep you away from prescription meds. The key is to educate yourself, there are unscrupulous manufacturers and promoters out there that will take advantage of folks. But these people are in every facet/business in life. Again, education is key. This will beat them at their own game.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/12, 03:07 PM
more news
NEWARK, N.J. (AP) - A federal judge allowed a nationwide ban on dietary supplements containing ephedra to take effect Monday.
U.S. District Judge Joel Pisano refused to grant a temporary restraining order sought by two ephedra manufacturers that would have prevented the U.S. Food and Drug Administration from banning the products.
Pisano's decision does not effect medicines containing ephedra, such as prescription or over-the-coutner cold remedies.
The New Jersey manufacturer of a popular diet supplement had hoped to head off the nationwide ban on the herbal stimulant, arguing the main ingredient in its product is safe if used as directed.
NVE Pharmaceuticals Inc. of Newton, which makes the supplement Stacker 2, had asked for the temporary restraining order pending further scientific tests.
Ephedra, once hugely popular for weight loss and bodybuilding, has been linked to 155 deaths and dozens more heart attacks and strokes.
On Monday, a second company had been allowed to join the motion for the restraining order. The National Institute for Clinical Weight Loss is an Atlanta manufacturer of a product called Thermalean.
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/12, 03:20 PM
I read every single warning and as a result take very few. In addition, the side effects on the lable are just the ones they know of so far.
============
Quoting from asimmer:
Has anyone read the possible side effects for most prescription drugs???????
=============
--------------
A problem ceases to be such when you can laugh about it.
Charlie
|
|
2004/04/13, 01:24 AM
Watch your mouth dahayz please.
|
|
2004/04/13, 07:20 AM
Did I offend you? Well, I will speak my mind when I feel it is necessary, after all, this is a message board. I am not a fan of MOST things Christian and I don't care who knows or who that offends. Our government is creating a witch hunt in every industry. FCC is after Howard Stern and daytime soap operas, the FDA is banning ephedra in dietary supplements, BUT NOT IN OVER THE COUNTER MEDICATIONS, gee, that makes a lot of sense. And Reverend Bush, I mean Pres. Bush is leading the charge. I can't say that the climate in this country is the best, and it starts with the leadership.
|
|
2004/04/13, 08:24 AM
Ok guys things here WILL be kept civil LOL!:love::big_smile:
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/13, 09:51 AM
The FDA has been after the supplement industry for many years, long before bodybuilding became as popular as it is. I have been taking vitamins and minerals for well over 30 yrs. and they were after us then. (many years before etither George Bush was ever thought of). With the increased popularity of bodybuilding supplements, it has opened a hornets nest of activity now. Now they have the "ammunition" to use scare tactics. These work....the liberal jackhammer groups that have nothing better to do will find something new to "latch" on to that is a danger to all, and join in the fight. Look at it, already consumer reports is doing reviews. What's up with that? Stick to appliances.
The liberal FDA is quick to ban a nutritional supplement, while even the inner members of the FDA know of the linked suicide amounts of minors linked to antidrepessants. Internal FDA documents verify this. They state it has them "worried". Meanwhile there is a couple suspicious deaths that may or may not be related to ephedra(and abuse at that), and they ban it. Makes you wanna go hhhhmmmm.:big_smile:
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/13, 10:07 AM
WASHINGTON - The government is warning consumers not to use a list of liquid products touted as providing a "safe legal high" because they actually may contain some risky chemicals — including a date-rape drug.
On the warning list: Trip2Night, Invigorate II, Snuffadelic, Liquid Speed, Solar Water, Orange Butterfly, Schoomz and Green Hornet Liquid.
The Food and Drug Administration (news - web sites) first warned against Green Hornet in February, after four Colorado teenagers used it and then suffered seizures, racing heartbeat, severe body rashes and high blood pressure.
Although the bottles listed a variety of herbal ingredients, FDA's analysis uncovered two drugs — diphenhydramine and dextromethorphan, ingredients often used separately in over-the-counter cold medicines.
FDA then analyzed other products sold by the same company, and announced Friday that investigators had found additional chemicals: the drug ephedrine and the controlled substances GHB, also known as the date-rate drug, and a GHB derivative called GBL.
Those two chemicals can cause life-threatening reactions.
The FDA has been investigating a Tampa, Fla., company, Cytotec Solutions, which made the products. While the company has gone out of business, FDA issued its warning Friday in case consumers or stores still have any of the products on hand.
"They pose a hazard," said David Elder, director of FDA's enforcement office. "The levels of drug products found in these products concern us. Kids are not necessarily consuming a cap-full or teaspoon or sip of this. They could take a couple of swigs and pass the bottle to their friends."
The products were sold on the Internet and in stores as dietary supplement alternatives to illegal street drugs. It is illegal for dietary supplements to contain drugs, or to be marketed in that manner. :big_smile:
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/13, 01:10 PM
Just an FYI for you Dahayz... Christians have nothing to do with dietary supliment restiction, it is the extremist Liberals that cause things like the FDA to restict stuff. Christ is just conserned about your soul, not too worried about what suppliment your taking to better your body. George Bush in my book is an OUTSTANDING pres. We are at war, buisiness is good. I got a raise this year and I pay less taxes. I am not too conserned about Howard Stern beeing taken off the air, I listen to CDs.
Just my 2 cents, don't be so judgemental, it shortens your life, ephedra free or not.
--------------
Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
|
|
2004/04/13, 02:22 PM
It's kinda sad when we need to go to war for business to get better don't ya think Relique. I am glad your doing so well and profiting from the war. As far as being judgemental, not at all. I used to be a Bush supporter, but when you look at the facts, it's hard to take our countries leadership seriously (he is on "vacation" most of the time), at least Clinton finally admitted to wrong doing, won't see that happening.
Anyway, In the end, it is ridiculous to ban a supplement such as ephedra for dietary use, but keep it on the market for over the counter meds. It goes to show you the reason why the gov. "banned" ephedra in the first place. And I agree BB1, propaganda scare tactics are being used. It really sucks for the majority who educate themselves and use these supplements safely.
|
|
2004/04/13, 02:48 PM
The "CONSERVATIVE FDA" NOT the "liberal FDA". There is no changing anyone's mind on political affiliation. You can blame liberals or conservatives all you want, this is all just circular reasoning. Without both sides, this country(for the U.S. folks) would fall apart. If it were all conservatives, there would be no job 'security'(not that there wouldn't be any jobs) for the middle and lower classes, and the rich would get richer. If the country was run by only liberals....who knows? but it wouldn't look pretty. Its reciprocal. I'm a liberal because I believe there is no such thing as an "equal" chance for all...and I'm white!!! BUT I see both sides and the benefits they can both bring to the table. We are all from different backrounds and different parts of the country, therefor we all have different needs and furthermore, different beliefs based on these needs.
--------------
Baseball is wrong: Man with four balls cannot walk. LETS GO METS!!!
Jdelts@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/13, 03:30 PM
Well, I definately agree with that, good post.
|
|
2004/04/13, 04:38 PM
dahayz, your last post was your most intelligent.
Relique, thanks for protecting our country.
|
|
2004/04/13, 04:40 PM
Listen fellas good clean jibes etc are ok but we will not have a religious confrontation! Howudon, Relique, and dahayz lets keep it nice you have so far but lets remember to keep it civil!
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/13, 05:09 PM
Agreed Mutt, HOWUDON, please feel free to drop me an e-mail anytime hayes1225@hotmail.com, I would love to have a discussion with the likes of you.
|
|
2004/04/13, 05:39 PM
No prob. mutt.
dahayz, the likes of me? Would you like to discuss religion, government, finance or just let off a little pent up steam? I'll be happy to help, but I do charge an hourly rate for psychological assistance. :big_smile:
|
|
2004/04/13, 05:43 PM
:laugh:, no, no. I do enjoy a CIVIL conversation about religion and all the good stuff we as humans deal with every day. I just took what relique said as personal, and when that happens, at that point, I will say things just to tick people off. I guess I like to cause a ruckus. But you jumpped on the band wagon and got even more personal. By the looks of it, you haven't been on this board for long. Read some of my other posts and my profile before commenting on my intelligence. That's all. I just like to talk. It's all good, and it's all relative.
|
|
2004/04/13, 05:45 PM
And I do go to therapy:big_smile:, every morning at 5:30 A.M., I have a date with the iron:dumbbell::big_smile:
|
|
2004/04/13, 05:53 PM
I did read your profile and didn't find anything in there relative to your intelligence, nor have I commented on the lack thereof. I believe the "band wagon" post reads: "most intelligent." I didn't realize someone had to be on this board for long to comment on things, missed that somewhere. Oh well, no big deal. Have a nice day, and enjoy your therapy tomorrow morning.
|
|
2004/04/13, 06:24 PM
This is getting off the topic of the original thread posted by Mutt. It's all opinionated,(freedom of opinion) but lets keep the opinions about the post and not the members.
--------------
"A will finds a way, failure is not an option"
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
|
|
2004/04/13, 06:43 PM
I was trying to remain Religeously "unaffiliated" in my converstaion, just mentioned the one part because of the jab to Christians. I think things get non-civil when you have people that are not edjucated on the subject (gov. Supliments, religeon, ect.) they are debating.
That said, good point, it does suck that war keeps me in buisiness but hey, someone has to do it.
I consider myself... I duno, a conservative? I think liberals are insane (the steriotype) but I also believe in live, and let live, witch most Liberals do not associate with Conservatives. Ok, now, G W Bush is on vacation? Hello! we are at war!!! lol "where would you like to hang out Mr. President? how about at the once place people are going to look for you, in the white house." C'mon think about it. Secondly, the military loves drugs... god, I have never been shot up with so much CRAP in my life, don't really enjoy it. Now, if Ephedra was as great as you say it is, why would the military ban it LONG before the FDA did. We have a separate set of drug standards a touch lower (maby more than a touch) than that for the general public. How about the fact that a dozen or so troops died from it? In shape, edjucated troops? I am not sure how deadly it is, I really do not get into the hype on stuff, I know I tried it, and it made me nuts! I had no idea how fast my heart rate got up there!! Was kind-a cool! Untill I started thinking about the posibility of a heart attack as I saw my pulse hit 195+ (I am 26, that is not good) My performance was great! But I used logic and thought...
If what I said offends you, please send a personal message, I appologize, I do not mean to offend.
Just curious, what is the Therapy for Dahayz? Physical or Mental?
--------------
Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
|
|
2004/04/13, 09:47 PM
Quoting from Relique....
I consider myself... I duno, a conservative? I think liberals are insane (the steriotype) but I also believe in live, and let live, witch most Liberals do not associate with Conservatives.
Yo Relique...
If you believe in "live and let live" then this makes you NOT conservative....:laugh: If Liberals are insane, then I must be as well. Sorry, I like to HELP people less fortunate than me, not take over their livelyhood and implement my beliefs on them no matter how much we disagree with their lifestyle. But then again, I must be crazy.:)
--------------
Baseball is wrong: Man with four balls cannot walk. LETS GO METS!!!
Jdelts@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/14, 10:20 AM
I believe it already is legal, just not to the supplement user. I believe many cold remedies, don't mamy allergy, cold and sinus medications contain some form of ehedra? Puesdoephedrine or something? These have been misused for years. I guess for health risks they will soon be taking these off the market?? :laugh: I think not.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/04/14, 07:32 AM
Man, this is great. We are off topic aren't we, my bad.
Anyway, I saw on the news that a few of the ephedra makers are trying to appeal the FDA's ban on ephedra in sports supplements. And of course it was denied. I wouldn't be suprised if in about another year, the government will probably turn around and make ephedra availaible by perscription. Then, there motive will be quite clear.
|
|
2004/04/14, 11:32 AM
Ephedrine IS contained in OTC cold meds, and certainly won't be banned in the future. The potency of a substance seems to have little to do with whether or not it is banned - or else DMX would have been banned long ago! The fact is that ephedrine and DMX WORK, and well, and there aren't many safe substitutes available (or so I'm told). So naturally you can get "high" off of either of them.
The problem is that using this logic (and how can you argue with it? Psuedoephedrine and Dextromethorphan hydrobromide are currently available in supermarkets, even in pure form if you look for them), the FDA is simply legislating behavior, and not really protecting anyone from these substances in many cases. So why bother?
Not only that, but it's still legal to buy ephedrine online, since as far as I know it isn't an official controlled substance. Anyone know the official word on this?
So obviously this recent ban on ephedr* is a PR move. Personally that ticks me off because I've seen the same thing with gun control - laws that serve only to confuse the public, and put stupid people behind bars while criminals "in the know" still reap the benefits. Enough laws!
|
|
2004/04/14, 12:20 PM
Ectasy was originally an OTC drug, too.
People will find a way to get high, no matter what.
The point you bring up about gun control is one of the reasons I cannot call myself a liberal. i like the right to protect my family and would prefer it to be legal to carry my weapon, because I know that the guys who are carrying the most don't care if it is legal and will caryy with or without a law.
The same thing applies to drugs, OTC or Illegal. Making ephedra-containing OTC drugs limited in the amount you can purchase hasn't slowed down the meth labs here, but when i go to purchase it and I have my tattoos showing i am told I cannot purchase the amount I want. The next day i can go back, looking more conservative and not be told that.
Pharmaceutical companies have a lot of power and it is easier/cheaper to prescribe lots of drugs to lower income patients than to take the time for therapy.
It is discouraging to see our privileges erode gradually under our noses until we will wake up one day and realize we have to get a prescription for multi-vitamins. They do it gradualy enough and put the right spin on it and our prozac-zombie, tv-watching, material possession obssessed nation will never notice....
Just a rant, not making much sense. Sorry.
--------------
If you fall down seven times, get up eight.
|
|
2004/04/14, 01:15 PM
Makes a lot of sense to me, Asimmer...
-V
|
|
2004/04/14, 01:43 PM
I agree asimmer. We all mull in the dark about everything and don't notice what is going on. Then when one person pulls there head up and relizes something and says something about it, everyone marks them as crazy and extreemist and they get slapped to the side because the majority doesn't see where the issue is directly interffearing with their lives and so don't want to dirty there hands. As far as gun bands go, I hunt and that would be a privilage that would sorely be missed. The issue is that our government is now dictating if our original constitutional rights fit into to what they want to happen and how they can benefit from tweeking them. It reminds me of the days of Rome before it fell. The government was all corrupt and the politicians only worried what they could get and not who they could help.:(
--------------
A determined mind is the best weapon in any situation, a strong body is the road to victory. G.R.C.
|
|
2004/04/14, 02:20 PM
I agree, it seems that slowly but surley, our freedom of choice options are getting limited. It all has to start somewhere, and it has.
|
|
2004/04/14, 03:12 PM
I agree with you Asimmer, it is a shame when our freedoms are walked on. The drug community is very into selling you TONS of drugs, very simmilar to the oil industry, this impeeds progress since when a "simmple or cheep" cure comes out they like to throw it under the carpet, due to a loss in profit. Unfortunatly, there is little or nothing we can do about it aside from stop buying sups.
Now on this Liberal vs Conservative thing lol. I think there may be some scewed perceptions about the opposing sides and perhaps I can clarify my personal understanding of a Conservative, and you can clarify my understanding on a Liberal. My first thought is liberals tend to opose military strength, Conservatives like the military. Liberals think the world would be safer with more gun laws, Conservatives think we would be better off with what we have or preferably less. Liberals don't worry about things that hapen outside of their own back yard, Conservatives tend to have a global perception. I know there are many more issues we differ on, but those are the things that come to mind and seem to be the most current debates, feel free to add correct or just ignore lol.
When I say live and let live, there is a caption to that, mess with my friend, my fellow American (Liberal, conservative, or non-associated) and the wrath you will feel come down on you will have no comparison.
And finaly, quoting my wife "It is no fun beeing paranoid when you have no one to be paranoid of" Loved that one.
Never thought I would be debaiting politics here, but it's all good, I enjoy it.
--------------
Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
|
|
2004/04/14, 04:48 PM
I think liberals think globally, but ignore the things in their own back yard - here in MN the liberals are crushing us with the influx of new immigrants (I have nothing against the immigrants, but we are full up) while we still have many homeless residents.
There are news stories about adopting haitian kids (so PC) but there are sooo many MN kids who need to be adopted.
These issues are far too complicated to say 'this will solve it' but honestly, we cannot keep taking care of everyone while our own health, as a nation, fails.
I am neither conservative nor liberal, both sides tend to be so black&white on issues. I guess i am a moderate, or fence sitter, i don't know.
--------------
If you fall down seven times, get up eight.
|
|
2004/04/14, 07:50 PM
to pick conservatism or liberalism would be limiting yourself to a set of ideas and you lose the oppertunity to truly hear out the other person...as far as i have encountered. both liberalism and conservatism have great ideas and beliefs. so while i agree with some conservatism, i also disagree with some parts..and same goes for liberalism. the best way to look at issues is by what would be good for the population as a whole rather than yourself, or a targeted group of people and especially not the political party itself. that is how we should elect representitives (i think), by who has the best parties to aid our nation without any bias towards any ideology. because when you begin to pick one side of the issue, you immediately begin to reject the opposing thoughts even if they are good ones. i have never encountered someone who would be willing to hear me out on any idea or belief, rather everyone gets defensive and begins to reject everything i say just because it mildly does not agree with them. so i say, there is no sense in saying you're liberal or conservative. no one ideology is better than the other, just be open minded and receptive to ideas and beliefs (especially opposing ideas) then decide if you agree or not. if you still don't at that point. then ok. but at least you're not locking yourself to one set of ideologies.
--------------
Get your weight up, kid
|
|
2004/04/15, 01:30 PM
I agree on that to jsom85. If people were abit more opened minded and looked past there own noses to what is going on this world would be in a better situation, and alot more inoccent lives would be spared.
--------------
A determined mind is the best weapon in any situation, a strong body is the road to victory. G.R.C.
|
|
2004/06/14, 09:40 AM
This is what happens when you take vitamin supplements that are manufactured to food grade standards instead of Pharmaceutical Grade Standards. Lesson learned?
============
Quoting from 7707mutt:
By Elizabeth Weise, USA TODAY
If they're natural, they must be safe, right? Not so, say researchers at Consumer Reports magazine.
• Rice says U.S. 'had an allergy' to domestic threats
• Shiite militias control parts of three Iraqi cities; foreigners kidnapped
• 13 foreigners reported kidnapped in Iraq
• Paris train stations evacuated because of bomb alert
• UConn women earn 3-peat title
=============
|
|
2004/06/14, 10:38 AM
Lets face it guys the supplement industry as a whole has not put the money to backing campaign money. There is a phamaceutical company about 45 minutes from me that donated almost 2 million bucks to Bush's last campaign so naturally what legislation is Bush gonna push for? Next on the chopping block Yohimbe, bitter orange and dont be suprised if you see creatine down the road at least they will try to regulate it in some fashion. Read my last post on the prohormone ban. Only until we get some big players involved like muscletech, optimum nutrition, etc.. will the government hear our voice loudly. I do like the fact that Sly Stallone has come out with his own line of supplements he could make a huge difference now we just need to get Arnold more proactive.
|
|
2004/06/14, 05:43 PM
Kerry in 2004
|
