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2004/06/05, 02:42 AM
Any success or failure stories with this stuff. I don't know that much about it.
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2004/06/05, 11:38 AM
i have a giant success story with it jdogg. i took on's hmb 1000 caps 3 times a day for a month and added 25lbs to my bench and 15lbs to all my other resistance exercises. i also had a net loss of 4 lbs with an increase in lean tissue and a 2% loss in bf. i've heard it's outstanding when cycled with creatine, but i haven't started this yet. monday is actually my target date for this.
anyway, i've read a lot about hmb and i can answer a lot of questions if you have them. it can get expensive to take though, roughly $45 a month if you can find it cheap online. ask me anything though, i'm here to help!
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success comes before work only in the dictionary. that's right.
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2004/06/05, 12:42 PM
Cycling HMB, creatine and arginine can be very good. Great strength gains and good pumps.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/06/05, 05:50 PM
any particular brands you would recommend? I am looking for something new. I haven't really taken anything besides protein in a while. I'm kinda looking to jump start myself with something new. I've never heard of HMB. $45 a month isn't that bad. Not for the numbers you posted. I realize your results were probably atypical, but it's impressive nonetheless
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A broken clock is right twice a day
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2004/06/05, 06:19 PM
david i actually just found what i'd been on at dps nutrition for $35 for a month's supply. it's optimum nutrition HMB 1000 caps. for your body to produce the amount of hmb in a day's dose (3 caps), you'd have to eat 5 sides of beef. it's potent stuff. i'm partial to ON over EAS because the dosage in the caps is higher.
oh, and my results were only atypical from a woman's perspective. the gains i experienced were more typical for men on hmb -- go figure. regardless, it's a great supplement if you use it correctly. it won't work unless you are 100% dedicated to working out regularly. if you're not lifting you're wasting your money taking it, but i know you've got your stuff together so it's not a problem.
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success comes before work only in the dictionary. that's right.
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2004/06/05, 08:32 PM
3 gr. per day of HMB is minimum to show any results. Taking less will yeild you nothing. This is one thing they fail to mention about HMB in all the media hype....the gains mentioned above are probably not due to HMB, but more than likely to better diet or proper training or newbie gains.
1: J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2003 Mar;43(1):64-8. Related Articles, Links
Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate and creatine monohydrate supplementation on the aerobic and anaerobic capacity of highly trained athletes.
O'Connor DM, Crowe MJ.
Institute of Sport and Exercise Science, James Cook University, Australia.
AIM: The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of 6 wks oral supplementation of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) and a mixture of HMB and creatine monohydrate (HMBCr) on aerobic and anaerobic capacity in highly trained athletes. It was hypothesised that HMB and HMBCr would have positive effects on aerobic and anaerobic power. METHODS: A prospective study involving a repeated measures design was utilised where subjects underwent testing prior to, and immediately after, a 6 wks supplementation period. Elite, male rugby league players (n=27) were divided into 3 groups, a control group (n=6), a HMB group (3 g/d; n=10) and a HMBCr group (3 g/d HMB + 3 g/d Cr; n=11). Testing involved a multistage fitness test to determine aerobic power and a 60 sec maximal cycle test to determine anaerobic capacity. Peak power, total work and peak lactate levels were measured in the anaerobic cycle test. RESULTS: Two-way repeated measures ANOVA revealed no effect of HMB or HMBCr on any of the measured parameters in comparison to the control group. CONCLUSION: Aerobic and anaerobic ability of highly trained male athletes is unaffected by 6 wks oral supplementation with HMB or a combination of HMB and creatine monohydrate.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/06/05, 10:50 PM
bb1, just as an experiment i didn't change anything i was doing when i started taking the hmb. i figured that by doing this i'd have a better perspective in seeing if it really worked.
i had been working out religiously 5 days a week for a year, keeping an impeccably clean diet for the last 4 months of that year, and had hit what seemed to be like an unbreakable plateau. i think that more than anything the hmb helped me break through the plateau that i was on, allowing me to make gains as significant as the ones i mentioned.
in reference to the study you mentioned, there have also been a number of studies conducted that showed the same results as i experienced over the same time period. i will find the book i have and pull some information from it to add to this post, but i don't think one study can discount the utility of this supplement, especially as a tool to break out of an extended period of non-growth.
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Quoting from bb1fit:
3 gr. per day of HMB is minimum to show any results. Taking less will yeild you nothing. This is one thing they fail to mention about HMB in all the media hype....the gains mentioned above are probably not due to HMB, but more than likely to better diet or proper training or newbie gains.
1: J Sports Med Phys Fitness. 2003 Mar;43(1):64-8. Related Articles, Links
Effects of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate and creatine monohydrate supplementation on the aerobic and anaerobic capacity of highly trained athletes.
O'Connor DM, Crowe MJ.
Institute of Sport and Exercise Science, James Cook University, Australia.
AIM: The aim of this study was to investigate the effects of 6 wks oral supplementation of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB) and a mixture of HMB and creatine monohydrate (HMBCr) on aerobic and anaerobic capacity in highly trained athletes. It was hypothesised that HMB and HMBCr would have positive effects on aerobic and anaerobic power. METHODS: A prospective study involving a repeated measures design was utilised where subjects underwent testing prior to, and immediately after, a 6 wks supplementation period. Elite, male rugby league players (n=27) were divided into 3 groups, a control group (n=6), a HMB group (3 g/d; n=10) and a HMBCr group (3 g/d HMB + 3 g/d Cr; n=11). Testing involved a multistage fitness test to determine aerobic power and a 60 sec maximal cycle test to determine anaerobic capacity. Peak power, total work and peak lactate levels were measured in the anaerobic cycle test. RESULTS: Two-way repeated measures ANOVA revealed no effect of HMB or HMBCr on any of the measured parameters in comparison to the control group. CONCLUSION: Aerobic and anaerobic ability of highly trained male athletes is unaffected by 6 wks oral supplementation with HMB or a combination of HMB and creatine monohydrate.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Controlled Clinical Trial
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success comes before work only in the dictionary. that's right.
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2004/06/06, 11:37 AM
I am in total agreement with what you say about one study. That is not the point I was making. I have been around this game for over 20 yrs., and have done and talked with and observed supplement usage and made it a study of my own. HMB has been touted to be a "miracle" supplement as are many that come out to make money. HMB can be very useful as I stated in my original post, but the doseage is normally very cost prohibitive to most folks. The doseage they give on the bottle will not yeild the returns they say. I found it very useful stacked with arginnine and creatne, but in high doseages. This is the crux, and most folks want/have to be cheap, and take minimal doseages and it does nothing. Here is a much more postive study....notice the doseage...plus notice it is stacked with arginine.(and the doseage of arginine is very high). I can attest to this doseage working though, it made tremendous strength gains with me. The doseage I found that made tremendous gains for me in strength were 3 gr. HMB, 10-14 gr. arginine, and 6 gr. creatine. Again, the problem here is cost efficiciency to get these gains at the proper doseage.
1: Nutrition. 2004 May;20(5):445-51. Related Articles, Links
Effect of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate, arginine, and lysine supplementation on strength, functionality, body composition, and protein metabolism in elderly women.
Flakoll P, Sharp R, Baier S, Levenhagen D, Carr C, Nissen S.
Department of Health and Human Performance, Vanderbuilt University Medical Center, Nashville, Tennessee, USA. flakollp@iastate.edu
OBJECTIVE: With advancing age, there is a gradual loss of muscle mass, strength, and functionality. The current studies were conducted to determine whether a mixture of specific nutrients, arginine and lysine, which support protein synthesis, and beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate (HMB), which can slow protein breakdown, could blunt the gradual loss of muscle that occurs in the elderly, thus improving strength and functionality. METHODS: In double-blind studies conducted at two separate sites, women (mean 76.7 y) were randomized to a placebo group (n = 23) or an experimental treatment group (2 g beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate, 5 g arginine, and 1.5 g lysine daily; n = 27). RESULTS: After 12 wk, there was a 17% improvement in the "get-up-and-go" functionality test in the experimental group (-2.3 +/- 0.5 s) but no change in the placebo group (0.0 +/- 0.5 s; P = 0.002). The improvement in functionality also was reflected by increased limb circumference, leg strength, and handgrip strength (all P < 0.05) and positive trends in fat-free mass (P = 0.08). Whole-body protein synthesis, estimated with the (15)N-glycine tracer technique over a 24-h free-living period, increased approximately 20% in the experimental treatment group as opposed to the placebo group (P = 0.03). CONCLUSION: These studies indicated that daily supplementation of beta-hydroxy-beta-methylbutyrate, arginine, and lysine for 12 wk positively alters measurements of functionality, strength, fat-free mass, and protein synthesis, suggesting that the strategy of targeted nutrition has the ability to affect muscle health in elderly women.
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Quoting from howdiekat:
bb1, just as an experiment i didn't change anything i was doing when i started taking the hmb. i figured that by doing this i'd have a better perspective in seeing if it really worked.
i had been working out religiously 5 days a week for a year, keeping an impeccably clean diet for the last 4 months of that year, and had hit what seemed to be like an unbreakable plateau. i think that more than anything the hmb helped me break through the plateau that i was on, allowing me to make gains as significant as the ones i mentioned.
in reference to the study you mentioned, there have also been a number of studies conducted that showed the same results as i experienced over the same time period. i will find the book i have and pull some information from it to add to this post, but i don't think one study can discount the utility of this supplement, especially as a tool to break out of an extended period of non-growth.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/06/06, 01:11 PM
good points bb1. i have more respect for your knowledge of bodybuilding and supplement use than anyone i know. the experience you've got under your belt will always outweigh mine.
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success comes before work only in the dictionary. that's right.
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2004/06/06, 04:52 PM
would it be possible to take the HMB/Arginine/Creatine combo for just a month or two to make gains? Or would it be best to do the 12-month stint? I would like to try this, but before I do, I want to buy all the ingredients and have the supply I need before I start.
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A broken clock is right twice a day
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2004/06/06, 08:41 PM
It normally takes around 2 weeks to get the effect in the bloodstream so to speak. In a month you should make some nice gains in strength, and will want to probably continue on. The nicest thing about this regimine is it is strength gains you will keep. I found a maintenance dose for about a month longer really did the trick. For instance, I am doing no creatine, or anything right now at all, and am as strong as I was before when doing this regimine. I hope you have the same results. I plan to incorporate creatine again in about a month. I am doing well without it, and so it will be that much more potent when I exhaust my normal diet/training, etc. Then it will become a boost again. I think this is key, most folks take these things so soon after starting working out they don't even have a good diet yet! There is no way for them half of the time to tell if the supplement even worked...
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Quoting from david_s81:
would it be possible to take the HMB/Arginine/Creatine combo for just a month or two to make gains? Or would it be best to do the 12-month stint? I would like to try this, but before I do, I want to buy all the ingredients and have the supply I need before I start.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/06/07, 01:12 AM
I was looking at a site (DPSnutrition) and I'm not too sure about how mg-g work, but three 1000mg pills would equal 1g, right? And with the arginine, I think it would be like 28 pills a day, to get the 10-14gr/day. Is this right, or is there a more potent source of arginine I'm not finding?
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A broken clock is right twice a day
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2004/06/07, 07:46 PM
1000 mg. is one gr. Check into the price of all that stuff, then compare it to the price of this...http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?number=BV024&back=yes&dept=1425&last=1425
See which saves you the most money. You take 8 of these twice per day. It will take about a bottle to start realizing good gains. But it works.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/06/07, 08:30 PM
That stuff looks great. I think it might be cheaper to do it that way. I figured it to be about 2 bottles/month, and for three months it's like $197. One last question, though. What would be an appropriate time to take this supp?
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A broken clock is right twice a day
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2004/06/07, 10:51 PM
Take them on an empty stomach, first thing in the morning, and then mid afternoon between meals. This will also aid in any growth hormone output. You really need to be "anal" about taking these, especially in the beginning. Taking some some days and not others for instance will not yeild the results you are looking for. They work synergystically, as the name implies.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/01/07, 03:49 PM
Would the HMB/arginine/creatine stack be most useful while bulking or cutting? I assume bulking, since strength gains are a key benefit. In the past I've done my cutting cycle when I've cycled off creatine, but I am aware of the benefits of creatine while cutting and would be willing to give this stack a try if it is in fact useful while cutting.
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