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2004/09/09, 01:21 PM
Moore Seems to have a problem with the Bush family. I have not seen the movie but have read some interviews with Moore about the movie and I believe that it is mostly B.S. and distorts much of what little truth that is in it. But in this country it seems better to put down the goverment than to support it. I guess that it makes better intertament.
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I will get to it as soon as I am done lifting.
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2004/09/09, 12:04 PM
Ok, this is a topic which is not about fitness but more about mental health.Since I do not live in the US, the movie Farenheit 9/11 just started playing here in Europe and I went to see it last weekend. I just want to know what your opinions are on it, and how come it was not censored in the US?Or was it? Did it cause a stir? Anyways, for me this was a shock, and I seriously wanted to leave the theater cuz my stomach was hurting so bad from the information and scenes shown. However, I did not leave cuz I think we've been sticking our heads in the sand for too long...it's always much easier to look away or pretend it's not like that. Well anyways, just curious on others' opinions...hope this isnt like, a taboo topic or anything...don't want the CIA knocking at my door anytime soon...
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2004/09/09, 01:06 PM
Not taboo at all, Diana123; discussion is healthy in and of its own right.
No, it was not censored here in the US (we welcome open constructive criticism of our leaders), and it did cause a stir, though short lived.
The biggest problem I have with this movie is that it is presented as an objective documentary, while in fact, it is quite the opposite. As I started my own research into the topics that Moore discussed in the movie (using his references), all that found was alot of information that had been taken out of context, and presented as "fact." Way too much subjectiveness for something presented as "the truth."
My advise when it comes to any thing in the news: do your own research, and make your own decisions and opinions.
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Michael
Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!
Chaos, Panic, Disorder.... Yes, my work here is done!
rev8ball@freetrainers.com
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2004/09/09, 01:40 PM
Well said Rev....we live in a world of sound bites. It is so easy to take enough tape of anyone and put parts together and make it sound real. I heard an example that the right person could make Pat Buchannan sound like the leader of the gay rights movement!
This "movie" which is exactly what it is, is in no way a documentary. This is unfortunately liberal media propaganda that is not at all fact. If it was, I would think the democrats would be embracing it and using it in their campaign rather than distancing themselves from it. We have freedom of speech in this country, and sometimes I wonder if it is a good thing. Anyone can put anything out there. If you search the internet for example, you can find anything that you "want" to hear. Sorting out the facts is up to you and I. Only the far left bomb throwers are embracing this stuff.
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Quoting from rev8ball:
Not taboo at all, Diana123; discussion is healthy in and of its own right.
No, it was not censored here in the US (we welcome open constructive criticism of our leaders), and it did cause a stir, though short lived.
The biggest problem I have with this movie is that it is presented as an objective documentary, while in fact, it is quite the opposite. As I started my own research into the topics that Moore discussed in the movie (using his references), all that found was alot of information that had been taken out of context, and presented as "fact." Way too much subjectiveness for something presented as "the truth."
My advise when it comes to any thing in the news: do your own research, and make your own decisions and opinions.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/09/09, 01:56 PM
I was hoping this topic wouldn't come up in the forums. Since it has, I think that Rev's comment hits it on the head. This is not an objective documentary, and many things are stretched and misrepresented. It does, however, pose some relevant questions that the Bush administration has yet to adequately address. As far as censorship, several conservative groups made attempts to keep it out of theaters, but to no avail. Overall, free speech is free speech, even though it can be a dangerous thing. Michael Moore can misrepresent the Bush administration in theaters, John O'Neill and the Swift Boat Veterans can misreprent Kerry's military service in commercials and a possibly defamatory book. Either way, we'll never be able to pass laws that make people play fair. It's unfortunate and positive at the same, strange as it sounds.
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OSU Law Rugby....specializing in personal injury and pain & suffering.
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2004/09/09, 02:01 PM
moore has a problem with the corruption of the bush family and the mockery they make of a 'democratic' system...which goes beyond entertainment. I agree he gives away some credibility with the manner in which he choose to present his film, but that doesn't mean that it should be dismissed as garbage. He also doesn't hide his political views; did people expect him to make a flag waving movie kissing some major Dubya ass? Close minded conservatives who dismiss everything as lies and say that it is easier to tear someone down than to support them are just as bad. isn't it easier to just support someone without question because you don't want to find out that something you have put your trust and good faith in is corrupt. instead of "just supporting" a politician (liberal, conservative, green or whomever). Maybe you should take that movie and really analyze what is goign on. then when you find those whole truths (if they exist) you can support someone. not asking questions is the easiest way of letting someone get away with anything and letting hisroty repeat itself. but thats just me. i'm not even american so i guess it doesn't matter what i think. i guess the fact that a canadian and european both posting on this thread shows the 'eat the world' image George is presenting, and the almost shocking disregard he seems to have for any kind of international community. oh well, at least he should bring out record numbers of young voters.
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2004/09/09, 03:08 PM
The movie should have been listed under "comedy" instead of "documentary." It was a comedy movie. In actuality the slandering of today's politicians is tame compared to what some of our founding fathers went through. People like Adams, Jefferson, and even Ben Franklin, were heavily slandered in the press. Freedom of speech, in my opinion, is a good thing.
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You can cover up the flaws on your body, but there is no hiding a flawed personality.
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2004/09/09, 03:14 PM
here here.. or hear hear?
There is a new movie been screened in the UK... it's from the perspective of the hijackers... not too sure how it will be received in North America...
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t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
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2004/09/09, 03:25 PM
'Team America...World Police' looks like it is going to be a good satire.
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2004/09/09, 04:14 PM
I don't know Hecdarec, I did not find it to be too funny. Maybe some things in this movie aren't exact, but no one can tell me that what those American soldiers in Iraq were saying wasn't reality. It was disgusting how they were talking about hooking their cds up to the tank and going to bomb the cities with the "good music" in the background. That's when I lost it. I mean, innocent people were dying, and they took it to be a almost like a game. And what about the American mother crying, and there's thousands of similar mothers like the one who was portrayed. It's just sad and I find nothing funny about that. Now if there was atleast a real purpose for all of this, than that would make it a little easier to swallow.... Now don't get me wrong, I have great respect for the US, however, that does not mean I have to believe and like everything that goes on. Trust me though, it's just very strange to hear things on the news here in Europe that my parents living in the States have never heard. Just as this Michael Moore type movie may have given only fragments of info pasted together, I believe that that is what's going on now in the States, especially before elections. I don't know.....
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2004/09/09, 05:12 PM
just a random fact I herd threw somone. The guy that did that movie has more security guards than the president, after the movie came out.
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if you kick a tiger in the @$$ , you then have to descide what to do with the teath end.
any guy can hold a girl by the hand, but only the select few can hold her by her feet!
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2004/09/10, 12:12 PM
I wouldn't doubt that. When you mess with some of the richest and most powerful families in the world, you have a tendency to "disappear" or "commit suicide" for no reason (e.g. Steve Kangas).
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Quoting from bigandrew:
just a random fact I herd threw somone. The guy that did that movie has more security guards than the president, after the movie came out.
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OSU Law Rugby....specializing in personal injury and pain & suffering.
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2004/09/10, 01:13 PM
yeah i think there is a little more to the Steve Kangas "suicide" than just some 'Cobainism'. what a mess. In the US somthing like that is a conspiricy, in an alarming number of other countries in the world it is everyday.
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Quoting from mzakal:
I wouldn't doubt that. When you mess with some of the richest and most powerful families in the world, you have a tendency to "disappear" or "commit suicide" for no reason (e.g. Steve Kangas).
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2004/09/12, 09:27 PM
ya see what ya started Diana123? LOL! serious...it is good to see the different view points on this. I have yet to see the movie, but I have seen some of his other films. He can be one sided, and rub ya the wrong way, but at least he makes me want to find out for myself the real story behind his movie. Also, I don't like how he tries to come off as a average guy. He is a fat rich guy feeding on half truths. I bet his body fat is WAY up there!:laugh:
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2004/09/14, 04:50 AM
LoL,sorry. I was just interested in hearing others' point of view on this. I did not mean to cause anything though! I really dislike talking about politics because people always seem to just get into an argument about it. But I promise, no more on this subject!! Now Michael Moore's body fat...THAT'S a topic I defidently don't wanna get into! It's just gross!
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2004/09/14, 11:06 AM
The Michael Moore thing was no more or less than his usual behavior of making money at the expense of others tragedy.He's done it before and he'll do it again. It's pretty easy to see him for what he is. The real scarey thing to me is tha Dan Rather, Tom Brokaw and Peter Jennings don't seem to be much different.
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Dances with Buffalos
Charlie
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2004/09/14, 11:18 AM
if you look at Moore's history it is pretty hard to say that it is just his way of making a quick buck off someones tragedy. If you want a quick over view of what he is all about check out the last Rolling Stone with him on the cover. he knows what he is and doesn't hide it, but i certainly don't believe that making wads of money from tragedy is at the top of his agenda. sometimes people end up being rich and famous just by being the right place at the right time and doing what they think it is the right thing for the right reason. i don't think that Bob Dylan ever set out to be rich...does the fact that he made money compromise his message? i know i am going to get shat on for that analogy, but you can see what i am getting at.
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2004/09/14, 11:22 AM
it is also pretty hard to compare him to some anchorman who works for a large network with an obvious corporate agenda. Do you think Wolf Blitzer asks all those stupid questions because he wants the answers? No, he is well versed in politics but he still has to get answers for the public that they will understand or that will make for ratings. The president of the Fox news network is George Bush's cousin....that is a long way from some film maker.
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2004/09/14, 11:25 AM
I take what I see on the news, in print, in movies with a grain of salt... if I want to know more, I will do some research and make an informed decision.... I may be right or wrong in my decision, but at least I'll try and get all the angles..
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t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
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2004/09/14, 11:34 AM
Actually 519, it was easy for me to say that about M.Moore.I put him in the same category as Jane Fonda. I agree with you 100% about the networks. The news departments should be in the news delivery business...not the ratings/money/agenda de jour business.
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Dances with Buffalos
Charlie
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2004/09/14, 12:05 PM
are we talking about those horrible Jane Fonda work out films, or the Hanoi Broadcast? kidding. it is funny how a person widly thought of as commiting treason or being a traitor can be honoured "100 years of Great Women" by Barbra Walters years later.
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2004/09/14, 12:15 PM
As a Viet Nam vet who was spit on by war protesters, sometimes its difficult to grant the M. Moores and Hanoi Janes their absolute right to free speech. When the discussions of this movie come up I realize the effect it has on our military folks in harms way. My thoughts and prayers remain with them. I don't think you'll find many American military people lining up to buy either one of them dinner.
On the top 100 list, I just have to consider the source and then I'm ok.:big_smile:
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Dances with Buffalos
Charlie
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2004/09/14, 01:26 PM
i think given the chance Barbra Walters would have included herself at the top of the list.:big_smile:
i guess the problem for me is that i missed Vietnam by about a life time, so all i have to go on is the good ol' history channel. i do however have the advantage in this case of being a Canadian. i get to be the 3rd party who can look at both sides with out any real connection to it. being removed that one step can make a huge difference i suppose.
as for finding anyone who is willing to line up and buy Michael Moore dinner, i don't think i know anyone with pockets that deep anyhow.
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2004/09/14, 01:33 PM
Nice turn of phrase on the dinner thing there 519.
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Dances with Buffalos
Charlie
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2004/09/14, 01:52 PM
thanks...but now i really want to go and get some McDonalds. jokes
Speaking of McD's and "documentaries" did anyone catch that "Supersize Me" movie? now that is one disgusting film! and not disgusting in the 80's Jane Fonda teased hair and cocaine kind of way.
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