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2005/01/18, 06:51 PM
it occurred to me today that doing these core exercises might not be a good thing, in that you are mostly going to encourage type II muscle fibre growth, when surely to protect your back etc, you would want type I fibres to predominate?
does this make sense? Am I talking s***e?
all comments appreciated
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2005/01/18, 07:02 PM
the rectus is the muscle in the core that is primarily fast twich, followed by the obliques and then the transverse abdominus, illiosoas, quadratus lumborum, erector spinae (some anyway) are comprised of a higher percentage of slow twitch, postural fibers.
your intuition is dead on...the more reps you do, the less correct function/correct development of the core you will recieve. your chances of developing a debilitating postural imbalance shoot through the roof.
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2005/01/18, 07:05 PM
Core exercises are fine, but I believe the necessity that was promoted about it to be unjustified. It was another training "technique" that was something new to shout about, they are running out of things. I have not personally or with anyone else found any real advantages for any sport in doing this type training.
That was a bit off the subject, but leading into this...you should always, repeat always train type 1 fibers first and foremost. Even if a msucle is split 50/50, train the type 1 fibers as a priority. If you want to train all fiber types(higher rep schemes for instance for slow twitch), train them as a secondary thing. Prioritize type 1.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/01/18, 07:07 PM
good points
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2005/01/18, 07:12 PM
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Quoting from bb1fit:
Core exercises are fine, but I believe the necessity that was promoted about it to be unjustified. It was another training "technique" that was something new to shout about, they are running out of things. I have not personally or with anyone else found any real advantages for any sport in doing this type training.
That was a bit off the subject, but leading into this...you should always, repeat always train type 1 fibers first and foremost. Even if a msucle is split 50/50, train the type 1 fibers as a priority. If you want to train all fiber types(higher rep schemes for instance for slow twitch), train them as a secondary thing. Prioritize type 1.
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sorry, now I'm confused - I thought type 1 were slow twitch - train these as a priority?
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2005/01/18, 07:13 PM
what I was thinking was that functionally endurance is probably more important for core muscles?
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2005/01/18, 07:22 PM
My typo...sorry.
If a muscle was dominantly made up of slow twitch fibers then it would be termed a Tonic or endurance muscle, if it was made up of mostly fast twitch muscle fibers then it would be dubbed a Phasic or a low endurance power muscle.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/01/18, 07:27 PM
nope...oddly enough. one of the core's primary functions (among the many) is to dissapate energy and load away from the spine, therefore it needs adequate strength and power. "endurance" or postural needs are more of a length force/length tension issue. if the rectus becomes hypertonic (facilitated, shortened, over-used...whatever) this is primarily caused from being in a seated position for extended periods of time, but training protocol can also become a cause as well.
hope some of this makes sense, long day
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2005/01/19, 06:28 AM
thanks a lot for the replies
so if I've got this right, then if you were to do core work, then you would be as well to do low rep stuff rather than higher reps which seem to be the vogue.
Would the problems of rectus shortening be adequately countered by exercising other muscles (the workout I was doing previously included multifidus (sp?) and quadratus lumborum) ?
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2005/01/20, 03:01 PM
very good question.
when a muscle becomes facilitated or hypertonic, it becomes the new position of strength for the body, therefore that's the position the body wants to stay in. it also means in any movement, it will be involved to some degree ex: if lumbar erectors are short and facilitated, during any crunch or situp movement, they will be involved to a degree equal to the facilitation.
there is good news though. if you statically stretch the facilitated muscles prior to working their anagonists, it will inhibit them and allow you to work on the desired muscles. so in other words, if you want to work the muscles that are postural antagonists to the upper rectus (and yes, there is an upper and lower rectus), you would want to stretch them just before working on a back extension, good morning, deadlift, etc. a good stretch that works with alot of my clients is the stability ball rectus stretch. you would just position yourself so the ball will be supporting your lumbar spine. now simply roll your body back over the ball and allow your head to roll with you (unless you get dizzy everytime...if so let me know). you can position your hands pretty much anywhere, i personally stretch them back and over my head...pop, pop, pop!
which exercises were you doing for the multifidus and quadratus lumborum? also, what is your technique like on your crunches (ball, floor, bench,etc...how do you perform it) and what other core exercises are you currently performing?
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2005/01/21, 07:44 AM
the multifidus one was taking a step forward and raising one arm - I had just started when I had some back problem, so I hadn't gone on to the progression of the exercise.
tha quadratus one was lying on my side, stretching my arm beyond my head, and doing a sideways crunch movement with my outstretched arm and leg.
I was doing my ab crunches on the floor, I'm not aware of any problem with my technique - because I've had back problems I tend to do all my abs and back exercises very slowly and deliberately.
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2005/01/21, 05:07 PM
with the multifidus exercises what do you mean by taking a step forward...are you standing?
what back problems are you referring to and do you still have pain?
another variation on the hanna-three-part side flexion exercise (pretty much what you're doing, with the exception that it's done in three seperate movements and the legs are bent to a 90 degree angle) is the standing side flexion exercise. i just prefer to get clients into standing positions as much as possible. there's more carry over into their daily life.
did you know that when you perform a crunch movement on the floor, you're only using approximately 40% of the available range of motion? a stability ball crunch is the preferred method because of the ability to increase one's thoracic range of motion, while allowing full range of motion for the rectus. if you have flat back posture, place a folded hand towel in your lumbar spine that is approximately the thickness of your hand. if this alleviates your back pain during the crunch movement, then you can bet the bank that you've got some postural deficiencies in your lumbar spine. most likely flat or sway back posture caused from a number of sources.
if you still have pain, let me know and i'll attempt to trouble shoot.
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2005/01/22, 06:32 AM
My back pain is basically sorted at the moment - I have been using the "treat your own back" book by McKenzie, and finding it very helpful. I think there must be at least an element which is discogenic, as I have had tingling pain down my leg.
the multifidus exercise was done standing up.
I don't have a stability ball, but I have been using the rolled up towel for my transversus abdominis exercise, I will start using it for ab crunches as well, thanks.
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2005/01/22, 02:04 PM
what t.v.a. activation exercises are you performing? i know i'm asking alot of questions, but that's just how i am.
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