|
2005/04/28, 08:39 PM
I was reading an article about how steroids often pack on 20-30 pounds of muscle relatively quickly and for a hardgainer like me, it seemed mighty tempting. Granted, i'm not gonna do steroids, but are there any legal supplements that are at least partially as effective?
|
|
|
|
2005/04/28, 09:12 PM
No supplement is any match to any steroid. You can take as many supplements as you want and they aren't going to compare to steroids. However when you take steroids, 75% of the steroids out there you will gain 20-30lbs quick, but once you go off you'll lose a good 15-20 of it. There are ofcourse a lot that you wont lose the weight but they are quite costly.
But if I were to recommend any supplement to you in order to gain weight I would recommend Phosphagen HP. This is a form of creatine. Most creatines you know how you have to do the 4 weeks on, 2 weeks off stuff. This I have taken for 6 months at a time and never had a problem with it. You just have to be sure to drink atleast a gallon of water a day with it. I have done a lot of supplements out there and this is what I see as being the best one yet.
As far as brands go, EAS and Optimum Nutrition are the best ones, EAS I prefer over Optimum Nutrition. I will tell you also that in my experience and believe all Muscle Tech supplements are garbage. They are too costly and they don't work nearly as good as EAS supplements.
You can buy Phosphagen HP at Vitamin Shoppe for $26.99, it has 40 servings and you take 1 to 2 a day. The first 5 days you take 5 servings a day to get it in your system, but after that you just take it once or twice. Compared to other supplements it's very cheap and it works great. Do not buy it at GNC though, GNC will charge you $40 atleast for it just because they are a large company. I wouldn't reccomend buying anything at GNC if you can find it at either Vitamin Shoppe or Vitamin World. I wish you luck. Take care.
|
|
2005/04/28, 10:04 PM
erebus,
Do you have to take a large caloric intake as well as Phosphagen HP? How is the dose of this product?
|
|
2005/04/28, 10:50 PM
No creatine will put muscle on you. Correct diet and training does that.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/04/29, 04:09 AM
DHEA is the only legal pro-hormone out on the market ....you need to take more than they recommend on the bottle for effective dosages...but then you also need to take soemthing to counter estrogen coversion effects....however I really don't suggest you do it...
Flex recommended these supplements to boost natural testosterone:
1 Tribulus terrestris - 500-2000mg taken 2-3 times a day, 5 days on 2 days off cycle...
2 Fenugreek - 500-2000mg a day
3 Dioscorea deltoidea - 500-2000mg 5 day on/2 day off cycle for 8 weeks then 2 weeks off.....
4. Avena sativa - 100-250 mg once or twice daily-5 on/2 off- 8 weeks on /2 weeks off
5 Eurycoma longifolia Jack 200-300mg 2-3 times daily-5days on/2 off- 8 weeks on/2weeks off
6. Vitex agnus-castus -200-400 mg before bedtime...4-6 weeks on then 4-6 weeks off...
7. 6-OXO- 600mg daily....4-6 weeks on then 4-6 weeks off...
8. ZMA - 30 mg zinc, 450mg Magnesium, 11mg B6.....take 30-60 min before bedtime...
|
|
2005/04/29, 02:56 PM
Quote
"Flex recommended these supplements to boost natural testosterone:
1 Tribulus terrestris - 500-2000mg taken 2-3 times a day, 5 days on 2 days off cycle...
2 Fenugreek - 500-2000mg a day
3 Dioscorea deltoidea - 500-2000mg 5 day on/2 day off cycle for 8 weeks then 2 weeks off.....
4. Avena sativa - 100-250 mg once or twice daily-5 on/2 off- 8 weeks on /2 weeks off
5 Eurycoma longifolia Jack 200-300mg 2-3 times daily-5days on/2 off- 8 weeks on/2weeks off
6. Vitex agnus-castus -200-400 mg before bedtime...4-6 weeks on then 4-6 weeks off...
7. 6-OXO- 600mg daily....4-6 weeks on then 4-6 weeks off...
8. ZMA - 30 mg zinc, 450mg Magnesium, 11mg B6.....take 30-60 min before bedtime..."
:surprised: Huh? What is all that stuff, where do I get it, and how much is it? Also, what effects does it have? Raising testosterone by how much? That seems like a lot of stuff.
|
|
2005/04/30, 05:38 AM
Google.com........search for them online....and you don't have to get all of them...get 1 or 2...Tribulus Terrestris I think is the most popular for boosting testosterone....
I am not sure by how much it raises one's testosterone I think it varies from person to person...
You don't need any of it....think about it in a year or two..
|
|
2005/04/30, 09:31 AM
Check this stuff out...awesome....Blue Rhino. Really works, and from the first dose. http://controlledlabs.com/product.php?productid=1&cat=1&page=1
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/04/30, 09:37 PM
At what point should someone consider the Blue Rhino?
|
|
2005/05/01, 01:59 AM
34 is not a bad age. :)
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/05/01, 01:52 PM
Hey, I checked out blue Rhino. I'm only 24, should I stay away?
Also, I actually bought DHEA when I was 17 or 18, I think, but was too young to use it. Then later it was exposed as a dangerous 'sex drug' that was killing people. I don't want to have that experience Blue Rhino or any other products for that matter.
|
|
2005/05/01, 04:11 PM
If you are afraid of it, don't do it. Who says DHEA is a dangerous sex drug??? :)
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/05/01, 06:25 PM
DHEA claims to boost libido, and have overall positive effects on sexual function. In the late 90's, some people were using it for these purposes almost like a club drug and were hospitalized for it. I believe one woman even died. I don't remember the details, if they were perhaps exceeding the recommended dosage or using sythetic DHEA. Since then I haven't heard anything bad about it, at least not in this regard. I guess people prefered Ecstacy instead.
As for using supplements, I fear using them at first, but that's no reason to limit myself to not using them if they are beneficial. I feared going to school at first too, but if I didn't, I'd probably be home drooling on myself with nothing better to do. The reason I fear them is out of ignorance, which is why I come here to educate myself. There was a time when I was afraid to drink protein shakes because I didn't know about amino acids or the effects of excessive protein ingestion. It remained that way until I replaced the ignorance with familiarity and understanding.
Unfortuanatly, it's not as easy to find scientific information of supplements as it is to find sales on them.
|
|
2005/05/01, 06:43 PM
You are overthinking things bro...take a chill and don't make a thesis out of things. As mentioned, there is no magic out there no matter how it is advertised.
As far as the DHEA, it should be well known that the studies show it benefits older men....that is the trouble with supplement advertising. They will take some sound science, (so they can't be accused of false advertising) and spin it so it sounds like it is better and reaching beyond what the studies show.
You will find this out in the supplement world, this is why I told you to save your money and get what thousands of studies have shown to be effective. They are very slick in their advertising. I am 53 yrs. old, been in this game for many years, and have done much of the legwork for you. Forget the hype.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/05/02, 04:19 PM
http://www.4dhea.com/dhea_info.html
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/pro-hormones/DHEA-supplement-information.htm
http://www.bodybuildingforyou.com/pro-hormones/DHEA-side-effects.htm
froshman I would really suggest that you be careful with this supplement...it's a fairly dangerous supplement in terms of side effect...and unless you have very low testosterone count, are over 40, or have good running knowledge of proper stacking of substance like this, or all of the mentioned...that you should look for some other supplements....at 24...I don't see any need ...
http://www.vitamins-online.gb.net/dhea.htm
|
|
2005/05/03, 07:37 PM
Thanks, Menace. I'ma pass on the DHEA, though. I was just curios to find out what the current level of legal supplements had to offer, both in effectiveness and consequence.
|
|
2005/05/04, 09:39 PM
bb1fit,
I have read your post regarding the Blue Rhino. Curious about similar products, I went by the local store. They offered Tribulus, ISA-TEST, and Tribestan. Are these products attmpting to increase free testosterone just in different ways?
During a search, I found the following questions and answers and wondered if you would elaborate.
---
"I don't do any PHs or AAS. At 51 years of age, would I benefit any if I were to take say some Tribulus, 6-OXO or Blue Rhino?
I would assume they might, IF these supplements increase free testosterone, or do you think their benefit would be negligible? Thanks a bunch."
Answer was,
"You should benefit greatly from them....I would opt for 6 oxo first."
---
" Hello, has anyone heard of a product called 6-OXO? I believe it inhibits the production estrogen and allows for more testosterone to be produced...just wondering if anyone knew a thing about it, thanks."
Answer was,
"This is something you normally use between cycles."
---
Should I try creatine before I move on to the testosterone boosters? I am just looking for a road map. I am working out hard with strict low rep exercises. I have been taking ZMA for a month now. Should I give it more time before starting anything else?
Thanks!
|
|
2005/05/04, 11:14 PM
The only reason I posted anything pertaining to Blue Rhino was in reply to Menaces list of test boosters from that magazine. Blue Rhino incorporates some of the same stuff in a stack that is relatively cheap.
The number one thing I would probably start with though is 6oxo.(as far as test boosters, it actually boosts or jump starts your own test levels)with no known sides.
By all means, do creatine first. The test booster stuff should not be taken out of context in posts. Those are simply replies to specific questions. If you have not been working out very long, or even if you are an intermediate or so, stick with the basics. Unless you did something to warrant a test boost, you probably don't need them.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/05/05, 03:47 AM
My friend/coworker took half a bottle or maybe 2/3 of a bottle of 6-OXO....and experienced considerable mood swings...he says he became more irritable and that his anger became less and less controllable so he stopped....
'7. Can 6-OXO be used as a standalone to increase testosterone levels?
Yes, although most users do not report positive results. The reported side effects (such as acne) usually outweigh the potential benefits. Another consideration is that continual use of 6-OXO will be quite expensive. Also, although the present research is promising in this regard, the long-term safety of 6-OXO is still not established. However, this still remains the most effective legal way of increasing testosterone levels without causing shutdown, and may be especially useful for those with low baseline testosteron'
from
http://www.1fast400.com/i54_Androstenetrione.html
|
|
2005/05/05, 12:18 PM
I can personally attest to many who have taken 6 oxo with absolutely no sides. Now, we all are different, and so many things affect people in different ways. Noone can tell another person that something is great, nor can they possibly say it is terrible due to "knowing" a friend. The only real way to find out is to experience for yourself. A prime example is ephedra/caffine stack. I cannot tolerate this stuff, but others, my wife included, use it very effectively and love it. I do not jump out and say it is bad simply because I cannot tolerate it. There are too many folks it works well for. You will have to be the judge of what you can do. On the expense note, yes it is expensive to use. You will have to weigh the risk/ratio reward for your own person.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/05/05, 06:54 PM
One note to add to the above, I am not advocating in any way test boosters for 20 somethings...as if you READ my post you surely can summize. I would reserve these for "older" bb's. Most 20 somethings have fairly high test levels anyway, and it would in many cases put them "over the top" so to speak. Be sensible about your approach to supplementation. Nothing short of steriods is going to make you huge overnight, and even those without proper diet will not add alot. Be smart people, give your body time. We live in a fast food society, and everyone wants results like a drive thru. Doesn't happen folks.:big_smile:
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/05/05, 08:42 PM
I agree completely....and on a sidenote I brought up my friend just to illustrate one of the possible side effects....it obviously in no way proves that it is a sideeffect for everyone or even that it's conclusive possible sideeffect...but simply to point out that this may happen....was it due to supplement or stressful work conditions or both i don't know.....However that's how my friend interpretted what was going on since everything was normal under same conditions before taking the supplement...
I tried hydroxycut also with ephedra and it wasn't my cup of tea so I had to stop also.....now I stick with cups of tea ..lol....for my caffeine boost
|
|
2005/05/09, 10:07 PM
What do you guys recommend as far as creatine? I saw a post by bb1fit that suggested Russian Red. Is this still valid?
|
|
2005/05/09, 11:24 PM
russian red is ok, but you will do well with just plain creatine monohydrate...look for the creapure logo.
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2005/09/06, 01:39 AM
i would also be wearly of any supplement that cannot be purchased from a mainstream store in Canada. Regarding boosting testosterone many of my friends have enjoyed Nitro T3. it has tribulus, ZMA and also has arginine to boost NO levels. its easy to take as you only take it once a day at night. it won't do what steroids will but my friends have said they wake up looking like a super hero. anyways check it out. another tip, shop online to save some money for your supplements. I am a loyal buffmusclestuff.com customer as they have never steered me wrong and always have the best prices
|
