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Behind neck military presses

timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/13, 06:46 AM ok lets get down to it in all honestly are BEHIND the neck military barbel presses THAT bad for ur rotary cuffs??? does it have any advantages of disadvantages over the standard front military press? diff should muscles worked possibly? someone clarify this!!:big_smile:
bropie Posts: 1,084 Joined: 2004/12/04	2005/05/13, 10:07 AM when you are doing a behind the head press, your shoulders are in an "externally rotated" position. this puts alot of pressure on your rotator cuffs, and can lead to injury if you are using heavy weights. however, i think if technique is sound, this shouldnt be a problem. just lower the bar to the middle of the head just below the point where the elbows are at the same level as the shoulders, and it should be ok.
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/13, 07:16 PM heres my rule......if it hurts......don't do it.....simple yet effective. -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/13, 08:56 PM but andrew when i first start any exercise i have NEVER done in my life it has pritty much hurt me... and ive kept with it? deadlifts hurt me lower back, bench hurt my rotay cuffs, upright rows the same even normal rows hurt my rotarys a bit at first, i thought ur body has a way of adapting to things, also i was planning on doing it as a pump finishing movement, example front milt press - 3*6 (5min rest) upright rows - 2*10(3min rest) then behind neck milt press - 1*20(60second) even squats hurt my trap lower back and knees when i first started now that i do it more ive gotten stronger and better in those stablizer areas i figured it mite work for behind neck shoulder press but so much has been said about this exercise...
sbroyhill Posts: 442 Joined: 2005/04/06	2005/05/13, 09:47 PM hurt or sore? 2 different things to me.... You shouldn't hurt... -------------- :Hard work equals great results!:
timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/14, 02:54 AM basically wat im saying sbroy is that when u first start freeweights u usually "shake the weight" around due to poor stablizer muscles at least this occured to me... so u usually start off light and master ur form better and get stronger over time, now that happened to alot of my exercises when i FIRST started.. and it was happening wid behind neck presses so wat im saying is... is it really THat bad of n exercise if u do master it correctly??
	2005/05/14, 03:56 AM soreness and pain are very different..... I now lift the weight behind the neck but bring it down to the front.... you can't 'master' an exercise by doing it 'correctly' ....if from the get-go you're doing it wrong....it's a contradiction....
mmaibohm Posts: 1,621 Joined: 2003/09/30	2005/05/14, 06:00 AM I wont even touch behind the neck work. THe only time I lift weight behind the neck is to break the bar for military presses. Behind the neck Puts way to much stress on rotator cuffs. I would prefer to lift smart and keep in the game all my life then have to bow out from a blown shoulder. -------------- I am that which must be feared, worshipped and adored. The world is mine now and forever.No one holds command over me. No man. No god. I am ANIMAL! and that is enough.
timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/14, 06:27 AM menace i didnt understand any of that message you just said... if im doing an exercise wrong from the "get-go" as you so put it then how do you ever know if your form is correct for any exercise from the get-go? in saying that its no point in ever trying??? thanks mmaibohm i guess i might not do them .. just thought theyed be nice as something different, also this soreness i get in rotary cuff is worse when i actually do upright rows so either there also bad for u.. or im doing it wrong in which case can someone correct me on the right form for uprights?
	2005/05/14, 07:40 AM timm let me clarify....since you already know what you're doing is the 'wrong' form from the very beginning from what others have already told you and from what you read online...and just general public/common knowledge about the exercise.....so if you nevertheless pursue the incorrect form...'trying to master it' then you're simply persisting in doing something the wrong way......I mean I see plenty of people roll their shoulders on shrugs , swinging their lower back on pulldowns or rows, etc....doesn't mean they are correct to do so....I mean they could use a similar argument....but it still wouldn't change the fact that they are going against common sense..... I compromised a bit on the exercise...because it's too difficult to get the weight off the rack when it's to the front of me....so I put the barbell behind my head....and as I unrack the weight...I bring it to the front....
timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/14, 08:18 AM ok well manace that really has nothing to with this this... if your doing a exercise with the 'wrong form' as know it then why would you keep doing it.. dont know your confusing me.. anyway for argument sakes i understand ur 2nd part now, and yes ill now do that for an exercise choice.
	2005/05/14, 06:19 PM "and it was happening wid behind neck presses so wat im saying is... is it really THat bad of n exercise if u do master it correctly?" ^^^^yes because you can't master an exercise if it's with a wrong form...that's what behind the neck presses are.... " if your doing a exercise with the 'wrong form' as know it then why would you keep doing it.. " but that's what you're insisting on by doing behind the neck presses....
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/14, 11:26 PM timmstar......how do yoru rot cuff hurt from benching and rowing? Your doing somthing screwed up man.......rot cuff do one thing basicly rotate the shoulder up and back........? So hwo do the hurt in benching and rows.....one is foraward other is back? Next is behidn the neck military is for th emost part a weak movement....you have to limit the weight, ergo can't use as much weight.......since this is a powerlifting section.....would it not make sense to do normal military presses since this is best for what you want to acomplish? which is strength? and befor eyou say "its a weak point" to make my military better!" I highly doubt that you press over head(up), not backward, weak point be tris or delts. work rot cuffs when they need to be.......I take care of my shoulders you screw those up, you can't do crap any more. just my opinion. -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/14, 11:42 PM andrew if for once ud read my post instead of giving me shit ud understand me better, i said when i FIRST started these exercises... it doesnt happen no more anyway i decided several posts back i wont do them so yeah thnx anyway ?
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/05/14, 11:44 PM you get a restricted range of motion from a behind the neck press anyway. I'd stick with regular military presses, and if you get bored, try some reverse grip military presses
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/14, 11:54 PM I still don't see how that hurt your rotators? -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/15, 04:36 AM well open ur eyes it might help....:big_smile:
bropie Posts: 1,084 Joined: 2004/12/04	2005/05/15, 09:23 AM think of benching.. you are pushing the bar up and back, so your rotator cuffs are involved in stabilizing that shoulder joint from just letting it go
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/15, 09:33 AM I have read pushing back is bad.......an arc is further range of motion.....than straight up. -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato