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Help with Lat/Back workout

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Help with Lat/Back workout

iRnLady Posts: 89 Joined: 2004/11/17	2005/07/26, 12:29 AM Hello all, I'm in kind of a bind right now. I've been working out my back for a couple of months now, but have stopped seeing gains; especially while working out my lats. I've tried to do the lat workouts either first or last during my back workout: Currently 1) lat pull downs 2) seated row 3) upper-row machine 4) one-armed dumbbell row 5) close-grip pull-downs To summarize, I either follow the routine posted or move 1 and 2 down to 4 and 5. I have been stuck on the same weight while doing lat pull-downs and for the most part seated rows and have come to the conclusion that I am overtraining (because of the close grip pull-downs). -Am I currently overtraining my lats? -Any suggestions? -I want to add a lower back exercise to my back workout; when should it be in the beginning or the end of the routine? thanks guys... I'm so confused...

wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/07/26, 12:33 AM If you can do it, try doing pull ups or chin ups instead of pulldowns. They recruit more muscle, and are a great way to add variety to a back workout. If you cant do a full pull up, work on doing negatives till you can do a static hold and eventually a concentric pull up. If you need help understanding how to do this, just post.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/07/26, 12:34 AM Also, as for lower back work, keep it on your lower body day. Doing squats, good mornings, and deadlifts, are the most effective way to work your legs and posterior chain.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/07/26, 12:36 AM ============ Quoting from irnlady: -Am I currently overtraining my lats? ============= how often do you do this workout??? How many sets and reps for each exercise???
iRnLady Posts: 89 Joined: 2004/11/17	2005/07/26, 01:27 AM Thanks for the quick replies wrestler... I do this workout once a week. Each exercise I posted, I do 4 sets each; pyramid scheme. I don't know if this makes a difference, but I work biceps two days earlier (Monday: biceps, Wednesday: back) Are lat pull downs, seated rows, and close-grip pull downs overtraining the lats?
bropie Posts: 1,084 Joined: 2004/12/04	2005/07/26, 08:14 AM no sounds ok. try to stay around 20 total sets for back day.. that includes lats, spinal erectors, etc.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/07/26, 12:21 PM I would work laterals and spinal erectors on 2 seperate days. Also, some people need more frequency than others. Try doing it 2x a week for a couple weeks, and monitor your process closely. Just a suggestion. Also, dont neglect your rotator cuffs with this much volume for internal rotation. -------------- The best feeling in the world is the feeling you get after a tough set of squats after you step back from the power rack and throw up all over the floor.
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2005/07/26, 09:07 PM You are basically doing 20 sets of lat work....that is in my opinion way too much. Even more so if you add deads to it as they work the lats as does bench to a lesser degree. I would cut 3 exercises down. I do chins, deads/good mornings, bent rows and lat pull downs. The deads/good mornings I switch off each week. Try something different, but I do think you are overtraining that muscle group. -------------- Less Talk, More Chalk! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/07/26, 11:48 PM agreed. Try cutting out half the exercises one day, and then the next back day, do the ones you cut out, basicly alternating between back workouts. mutt- Just a completely random rant about your signature, but at a gym that i rock climb at, its air conditioned, so they want us to keep the doors closed, so on the doors, it says on a poster "keep the doors closed, you're letting the chalk out".
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2005/07/27, 07:57 AM LOL that is funny. Mine is from a House of Pain t-shirt I have....it just says what a lot forget...gym is for lifting not hooking up! -------------- Less Talk, More Chalk! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
iRnLady Posts: 89 Joined: 2004/11/17	2005/07/30, 12:44 AM Thanks guys... I'm still a little confused though. I thought that the rule of thumb was 20 sets for the back... Isn't that 20 sets? Can anyone give me a solid back workout without deadlifts? (Sorry Mutt, I will add in deads later) Thanks
iRnLady Posts: 89 Joined: 2004/11/17	2005/07/30, 10:48 AM man_of_steel, What's your back workout? Man... So dumbbell rows and barbell rows work the lats? I thought they were for back thickness...
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/07/31, 12:00 AM Are we talking strictly upper back or upper and lower back. Because if we are talking about only upper back, then 20 sets for back IS twenty sets for lats. and i think that 20 sets for back on one day is still too much.
iRnLady Posts: 89 Joined: 2004/11/17	2005/07/31, 02:39 AM wrestler125, Just back in general... I guess the current workout I have neglects the lower back and that's a no-no.
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2005/07/31, 07:35 AM Where in the wrold did you hear that 20 sets for back is needed? -------------- Less Talk, More Chalk! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
iRnLady Posts: 89 Joined: 2004/11/17	2005/07/31, 07:13 PM Thanks Man of Steel... Mutt, I heard from numerous sources (including here) that 20 sets for the back is needed. I thought that meant on back day, I had to do 20 sets. So if I'm doing barbell rows followed by dumbbell rows, is that overtraining that particular muscle group??? And lat pull downs w/ close grip pull downs and seated rows... that's overtraining the middle back?
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2005/08/01, 12:47 PM I would pick one exercise for each group. I like do a few sets of chins to warm the back and my arms first. My next one is either Barbell bent rows (if I am going light ), then deadlifts, then maybe lat pull downs. I do between 12-15 sets total for my back. I alternate good mornings with deadlifts, so that one week I do the good mornings and the next I do deadlifts.....most of the time I hit the back in about 40 mins tops. I think that as your back is used in squats, bench, curls, hell just about every single exercise you need to be careful. That is my opinion. -------------- Less Talk, More Chalk! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
irondog Posts: 56 Joined: 2005/07/29	2005/08/03, 01:35 AM Mutt, I heard from numerous sources (including here) that 20 sets for the back is needed. I thought that meant on back day, I had to do 20 sets. i agree with mutt you are over training who gave you that advice about doing 20sets for your back. a more sane aproach would look like this ---------------------------------------------------------- deadlifts5x3 progressive sets working up to a top triple bentover rows 3x6-9 do these to failure when you can get 9reps on all three sets move the weight up chins/pulldowns 3x6-9 *see above pullovers 2x15-20 when you can get 20reps add more weight rest 2 minutes between sets on the deadlifts---1min between the rest later dog -------------- http://p200.ezboard.com/bbigbearsweighttraining