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2005/10/08, 04:17 PM
decided that because of a previous post about the effects of drugs on lifting, i might post this for you guys. It doesnt cover everything, but its a good article to discuss.:
Alcohol’s Effect on Your Workout
Jon Gestl, CSCS
Remember the "Just Say No" campaign in the 80’s? The abstinence-oriented alcohol and drug prevention campaign was Former First Lady Nancy Reagan’s platform project, and you couldn’t go anywhere without hearing the slogan, particularly if you were of school age at the time.
Prevention messages warned about the dangers of alcohol and drug use, including health and impairment problems. We were warned of the risks of drinking and driving, accidents, "killing brain cells", and a myriad of other health problems.
One problem we probably weren’t informed of, however, was what alcohol could do to completely ruin our fitness goals. Some spend a lot of time working out and eating nutritionally only to ruin the chance of ever reaching fitness goals because of their alcohol use.
The six reasons alcohol’s effects on our fitness goals include:
1. Nutritionally Empty: While there are certainly many who choose a "liquid lunch," few would be surprised that they are not getting much in the way of nutrition. While alcohol contains calories, these calories are virtually empty and don’t provide the body with any usable material for either energy or building blocks. Alcohol contains no nutritional value.
2. Increases Caloric Intake: While the calories are virtually useless to the body, it doesn’t mean they don’t count when we are determining our caloric intake.
For example, a 12 oz. can of beer is about 146 calories. Drinking a six-pack (not hard to believe when you see some people out at a bar…) tacks on a whopping 876 calories. While a shot of vodka will only add about 70 calories, add in a popular mixer (tonic) and you raise the total of the mixed drink to about 170. Down three of these and by the time you’re ready to walk (or
stumble) out of the bar, you’ve consumed 510 calories that are not only useless to your body, but can also be stored as fat. Bottom line: if you are trying to get or stay lean to show off your body, increased alcohol intake may help make sure you don’t ever see those abs.
3. Offers No Ergogenic Effects: The supplement industry banks on consumers’
faith that their merchandise will give them some sort of benefit in achieving what they want. There are thousands of supplements whose sellers make all sorts of claims. Whether it’s a lie or not, one thing is certain. Research has shown that alcohol has no ergogenic effects on muscular strength, short-term maximal anaerobic power, or cardiovascular activities.
4. Impairs performance: Just as alcohol impairs the ability to drive, operate machinery, or make intelligent choices, it will also impair sporting performance.
Alcohol impairs just about all sports performances requiring balance, hand-eye coordination, reaction time, and processing information rapidly.
5. Impairs cardiovascular capacity: Ingesting alcohol at a level commonly seen among "social drinkers" causes depression in myocardial contractility, as well as affecting the liver’s capacity to synthesize glucose. Both of these effects would significantly impair performance in high-intensity cardiovascular activities.
6. Dehydration: Alcohol is a diuretic and leads to dehydration, which causes problems for the body’s cooling system.
7. Increases Risk of Alcohol Impairment/Heath problems: Finally, alcohol use can cause either impairment problems in the form of automobile crashes and accidents, and health problems like liver disease or alcoholism. Both impairment and health problems will certainly hinder fitness goals.
Whether you choose to "Just Say No" or consume alcohol in a moderate manner is every individual’s choice and responsibility. When it comes to getting what you put into hard workouts on a daily basis, it seems wasteful, if not stupid, to throw away your fitness goals due to over-drinking.
Jon Gestl, CSCS is personal fitness trainer and instructor in Chicago specializing in on-site personal fitness coaching. He is a U.S. National Sport Aerobic Champion Silver and Bronze medalist. Publisher of the free fitness and health ezine, "Informed, Inspired, & Inshape", he can be contacted through his website at www.jongestl.com.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/09, 06:15 AM
very good points
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2005/10/09, 02:17 PM
Most everything positive you do also has SOME negative effects, but who is going to stop living how they want just because of that? Not many people.
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2005/10/09, 02:20 PM
Someone that obviously has more dedication than you do. As for "some" negative effects, if you are training, then the negatives of alcohol far outweigh the positives. Just because you see it one way, doesn't mean that there aren't people that are willing to make sacrifices to achieve their goals. That is what seperates these "not many people" from people like you.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/09, 02:31 PM
Think about it at least in the U.S. where I live a lot of people like to drink. I know many people who lift weights and have made HUGE gains that drink 4-5 days a week if not more. Im sure it effects you a little, but drinking isnt gonna stop average people from making the gains you want, unless maybe you are entering competitions.
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2005/10/09, 03:57 PM
Ok. That just means you are satisfied with being mediocre, and that is ok.
I have had MANY elite level coaches and trainers. I can't name one that drank, or thought it was ok. I am not saying that everyone should give it up immediately. This is an article about he effect that it will have on you.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/09, 07:40 PM
David you should really reread what you said....not one ounce of what you said is supported by anything....'I have a friend of a friend of a friend'....=0......most serious trainers don't drink or if they do in very small amounts on big occassions(NY, BD, weddings, etc).....I mean I drink occassionally which happens about handful of times a year in very small amounts, no more than 3 drinks....and probably like 1-2....
any serious athlete with any aspirations of becoming great....drinks 0 alcohol...even the evidence of wine improving heart health and helping live longer.....doesn't provide the reason for an athlete to have that 1 glass of wine daily....perhaps after their careers are over.....
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2005/10/09, 10:32 PM
as for the wine thing, research has found that a glass of white grape juice can have the same effects on heart health as a glass of wine.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/11, 12:53 PM
Menace, I wasnt really stating any health Facts so I dont need anything to back up my opinion on. All I was trying to say is most everything you eat or do in life has negative effects as well as positive. So what are you going to do stop living how you want because of it?
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2005/10/11, 11:23 PM
Im fine living the way I want. But then again, it was always people with your mentality that took second place to me, so I'm not complaining. And how are you going to say everything you eat has negative effects, and I would love for you to name one, legitimate, long term positive effect alcohol has on your body. Not everyone needs to have alcohol to have a life.
Besides, if your going to say something, anything, on these boards, you should be prepared to back it up, or expect it to get treated as bull.
Discipline is just choosing between what you want now and what you want most.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/12, 04:18 AM
couldn't have summed it up any better wrestler....always amazes me how people try to get into generalizations to somehow rationalize flawed thinking....
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/resveratrol.html
grape juice unfortunately doesn't have the same benefits as red wine ....it doesn't have the rasveratrol in any kind of effective concentration compared to red wine...
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2005/10/12, 01:25 PM
"The best-known effect of alcohol is a small increase in HDL cholesterol, Alcohol or some substances such as resveratrol found in alcoholic beverages may prevent platelets in the blood from sticking together. That may reduce clot formation and reduce the risk of heart attack or stroke." This information came from the American Heart Association. But who knows they are probably wrong, you know more than them wrestler. :big_smile:
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2005/10/12, 09:45 PM
David don't lump together all alcohol....resveratrol is found mostly in 'red wine'...everywhere else it's in insiginificant quanitities or not at all....
.....flavanoids are what found in grape juice, wine, etc..
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2005/10/13, 01:39 PM
seems like menace knows more than you... i bet you weren't expecting anyone to catch that small piece of information, were you???
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/13, 01:41 PM
besides, i could site hundreds of sources on the negative effects of alcohol greatly outweighing the positives. These negatives are drilled into our heads throughout grade school and if you train, they should be drilled into your head permanently
Im not telling anyone that they have to give up alcohol, but if you think that drinking on a regular basis will be productive to your goals, then by all means... but dont poison other members with falsified thinking.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/13, 01:44 PM
Ive never questions menace, im sure menace knows more than me or 99% of everyone on this board, I questioned you wrestler.
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2005/10/13, 01:47 PM
wrestler I never said that drinking will be productive to your goals, when did I ever say that? I just dont think that they completely ruin our fitness goals like you said.
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2005/10/13, 01:50 PM
Wrongo David. Menace's knowlege pales compared to what's locked in this giant Jethro Bodine mind of your's truly.
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Quoting from David1201086:
Ive never questions menace, im sure menace knows more than me or 99% of everyone on this board, I questioned you wrestler.
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Sometimes life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2005/10/13, 02:00 PM
Charlie are you saying you know more than Menace about Nutrition and weight lifting? Ive read many posts from both you and menace, sure you are popular on these forums for your humor, but menace definitely puts in more facts and information than you.
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2005/10/13, 02:09 PM
Oh David , poor David. Menace, Wrestler and BB1 IM me before they answer any questions.
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Sometimes life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2005/10/13, 02:11 PM
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
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Quoting from charlie826:
Oh David , poor David. Menace, Wrestler and BB1 IM me before they answer any questions.
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2005/10/13, 02:12 PM
The reservatrol is found in the skin of the red grape. This is what makes red wine so much better than the grapes themselves.
It is also high in the red fine coating that surrounds peanuts in the shell! Don't throw it away, eat it for sure!
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Quoting from menace3000:
David don't lump together all alcohol....resveratrol is found mostly in 'red wine'...everywhere else it's in insiginificant quanitities or not at all....
.....flavanoids are what found in grape juice, wine, etc..
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/10/13, 06:18 PM
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Quoting from David1201086:
Ive never questions menace, im sure menace knows more than me or 99% of everyone on this board, I questioned you wrestler.
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so then what are you questioning???? I fail to see the question here??? Are you questioning whether alcohol actually does have a negative effect on training??? Because if you are, then i am sure andrew and menace are in agreement, as would most of the knowledgeable members of this board.
and no, you didnt say it would be productive, but you did go on to compare it to other foods, saying that everything has its negatives.... Few foods have as negative an effect on a weight lifters body than alcohol. I eat a clean diet, but I also accomplish my goals.
However, when did I say they would completely ruin your fitness goals????? Everyones goals are different, for me, anything less than first was unacceptable. Yes, people can accomplish their goals and still drink, but it will be counterproductive to a degree.
I didnt write this article, and sources were cited. I only posted it, and agreed.
Not to mention that I have never even read a post by you until the other day, and yet you can say that charlie doesnt give advice? I have been a member of this board for years now, and have been reading charlies posts for this entire time. While I choose to get most of my information in places other than a message board, he does give excellent advice, when he gives it.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/13, 06:56 PM
I didnt say charlie doesnt give advice, I said that charlies advice is humoring, but meance gives more advice. I like charlie, I have nothing against him. Anyways lets just drop this instead of keeping this fued going, I dont have a problem with you either, when I first read the article it came across to me that you were trying to push your ways on to other people, which I see your not now. Im come on here to try to learn more about bodybuilding, I now see I shouldnt of even responded to this post to begin with.
David
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2005/10/13, 09:01 PM
no harm, no foul. I dont mind a debate, and dont see any problem with responding with your opinions to any post. Just be careful how you come across, and i will do the same.
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2005/10/14, 01:30 PM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
as for the wine thing, research has found that a glass of white grape juice can have the same effects on heart health as a glass of wine.
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Do you have a source to back this up?
I only ask because I corrected you on this on a previous thread. Everything I've found says white grape juice has nearly no reservatrol.
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The strong shall stand, the weak will fall by the wayside.
Res ipsa loquitur
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2005/10/14, 01:36 PM
I'll look it up. I don't think the article I am referring to mentioned reservatrol, but only that it has the same effect on your system, however, you may be correct. There is alot of BS material out there, and if i can find it later tonight, I will post it.
Also, I dont think it was white grape juice, I was just thinking that for some reason. Reservatrol actually has a red pigment, which is why peanut covers and wine are red.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/14, 01:48 PM
I think I understand what David was getting at...it's more of just being flawed as humans that we can't be 100% perfect...it's extremely difficult to abstain from some things completely....so as long as those little guilty pleasures or vices are not abused(that's where cheat days come for bodybuilders and perhaps some very talented athletes)....we can still make good albeit not 'as good' gains.....
And yes I ask Charlie before I post anything...he's a walking encyclopedia....his head is actually 3x the size it appears.....I don't know how he keeps it up...must be years of working out :)
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2005/10/14, 03:39 PM
As do I. If it weren't for charlie, I wouldn't be posting right now...
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/20, 12:58 AM
The thing that seems odd to me, is half the stuff in that article isn't very relavent. Having bad judgment while drunk doesnt really affect your work out. Unless your insane and try to work out WHILE drunk.
Half of it is pure gold, but the other half is just preaching.
Everyone has different priorities and balance has its place sometimes. Seems pretty harsh to call someone mediocre if they have a better body than most people as well as a successful work and social life.
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2005/10/20, 03:06 AM
Kieas you're missing a big point...athletes who trully aspire to be the fastest, strongest, most agile, etc....all try to use every factor to their advantage....perhaps balance is fine for an average joe...who may even argue that drinking a glass of red wine daily is more beneficial for him that not doing so....however as an athlete you must make sacrifices sometimes even at the expensse of your health....
alcohol slows down muscle recovery and rebuilding process and it's also a diuretic making you lose much useful water in your body.......as a serious athlete you'd try to find a way to cut this recovery time further ...reason why glutamine, creatine, recovery drinks and so forth are so useful...by drinking alcohol in ANY amount slows down this process....and as you know time is a big factor for most athletes....time of/for workouts, time for recovery, short time of most playing careers, etc....
You just have to ask yourself....are you a serious athlete? if the answer is NO...then moderate drinking is just fine....even beneficial with red wine....however if the answer is YES then you cannot allow yourself to succumb to your short term desires....as an athlete you have to keep your eye on the prize or the long term success...
how much more do you want to dunk(higher/more powerfully)....or bench 500 or squat 1000.....or be quick as hell.....or have amazing agility or balance....or run faster....etc......if this is trully a big goal of yours then you will make sacrifices to accomplish it....
to me abstaining from alcohol is not difficult.....compared to perhaps not doing other things at times just to go work out....or training through injuries...etc....
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2005/10/20, 08:55 AM
just to rattle some cages, im gonna throw in my opinion.
i believe alcohol has its place. a serious athlete can still drink if they want to, its a choice they have to make for themselves. however, again, the literature out there showing the negative effects of alcohol on the body. its knowing when to drink and your limits that people need to understand. if you have aspirations of becoming an olympic powerlifter, and you're out overy 2nd or 3rd night getting shmammered.. then alcohol is likely to be a detriment to your goals and training.
personally i consider myself a serious athlete. i train religiously each week, eat properly, but fit alcohol into the situation too. in terms of our performance, we all have different outlooks on the future.. whether its achieving social glory, or just doing it for personal reasons. i dont aspire to ever be an olympic athlete, my goals are personal wellness and fitness. sure, alcohol has negative physical aspects, but what about its social merit, or effect on our mental status? im not talking about beer goggles or forgetting what happened at the bar the other night, im talking about socializing with our peers, relieving stress and relaxing, etc.
how many pro athletes have you seen drinking? these are the highest rated and skilled players in the world.. i'm sure they know the effects of alcohol on their training and performance, but they do it anyways. I dont think its right to preach that alcohol consumption is totally wrong, its finding that happy medium of when and where to use it.
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2005/10/20, 11:04 AM
bropie 'pro athletes' are not the best example to use...many of them have poor eating/exercising habits...they just happen to be extremely physically gifted....they are still wasting some of it...but they can 'get away' with it....most people are not naturally as gifted and must work hard for every second, inch, or pound...(it's almost like saying that an average woman in her 40s should look like that of a Desperate Housewives actress...afterall they are in the business of looking good right?)
you can't have a good time without alcohol? that's a sign of a problem...using alcohol to dull anxiety is also a poor idea....it's like getting hammered after breaking up with your gf....what does it solve? nothing....except same situation plus hangover day after....social merit? that's a load of crap...and you know it....you think beer goggles and black outs are a good thing?
I also don't think you read what I or wrestler said very carefully...I said 'happy medium' is fine if you're working out for fitness and health reasons and dont have any serious aspirations athletics wise....however if you do ....then you're creating unnecessary obstacles to your goals...if you say you're a 'serious athlete' then why would u sacrifice long term success for some short term enjoyment....you can't chat with your buddies without a beer in your hand?
I am really not trying to preach against alcohol
....everyone is free to do whatever they wish...
bottom line is that alcohol has very few if any benefits...yet it quite clearly negatively affects your body with regards to exercise.....moderate drinking is fine and dandy for an average joe...but like I said and will keep saying...if you're serious...then 'the happy medium' is a load of crap....otherwise start eating gallon of ice cream cuz it tastes good...
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2005/10/20, 11:28 AM
Just to throw something else into the mix:
I do not dispute anything that wrestler or menace say, but I'm curious to hear peoples take on alcohol in this way:
Say you have a cheat day in your diet. Not unusual, the 'body for life' programme incorporates this. The benefit of a 'cheat day' is a mental one; it makes it easier to stick to a strict diet. If, previous to trying to get healthy, alcohol was a part of your life (I'm not talking huge quantities, just a couple of glasses a night) then would you say it would be beneficial in terms of a CHEAT DAY thing, to make it easier to avoid for the rest of the time.
Katie
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2005/10/20, 11:30 AM
"just a couple of glasses a night)"
oops! meant couple of glasses a week!
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2005/10/20, 11:47 AM
i think we're getting misunderstood too menace.
i never said you cant have a good time without alcohol. its not about disconnecting from reality when you drink, its a social activity. same with the fact that i agree with you and wrestler that for an athlete who is heading to a high level, alcohol probably doesn't have its spot.
but what i'm saying is that you can still be a serious athlete and drink responsibly. it is all in our perception of success. for me, maybe not hitting that 500 lb bench mark is my sign of success. improving my self image, raising my confidence, and making myself healthier may be my goal. with these goals, alcohol consumption every once and awhile is ok. personally, i've made life changes that have had a dramatic effect on my physique/mentality, but for someone with MY long term goals, i can still factor in that alcohol consumption will not be that detrimental to my successes.
i'm not trying to argue against anything yuo or wrestler have said menace. is it suffice to say that we both agree that alcohol consumption clearly has negative effects on the body.. but it is dependent on where we are going with our life that determines if alcohol is factored into the equation?
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2005/10/20, 03:08 PM
I am glad that this post stirred so much discussion among our members.
Like I said before, I did not post this to preach. I posted it to engage the forum in a discussion as to the negative effects of alcohol, hence the title of the thread. Knowledge breeds power, and the article that I posted, along with the other posts on this thread, can hopefully lead someone to more INFORMED decisions as to whether or not to drink. Abstinence is not for everyone, by no means. However, abstinence is not the only way. Moderation is another key, and if you don't feel any of this affects you, then by all means, drink your heart out. Just expect to see some of these effects and others when it comes to your training.
Discipline is choosing between what you want now and what you want most. Rarely is this easy. Nor is it a lifestyle for everyone.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
Light weight is an oxymoron.
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2005/10/20, 03:11 PM
Raul, I ran a quick search and turned up many sources showing grape juice as a source of reservatrol, but was unable to find the source I was citing. If I find it, I will post it, but if you run a quick search on reservatrol and grape juice, you can find many sources of information showing the availability of reservatrol in grape juice.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
Light weight is an oxymoron.
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2005/10/20, 10:25 PM
I think for an average person 1-2 drinks a week are fine on a cheat day....
I agree with you bropie...in that if your goals are more corollaries of exercise and fitness....ie..improved confidence, stress relief, better sleep, better physique, etc...then moderate occassional drinking is just fine......
I drink on occassions also...but I 'nurse' my drinks for a while...i drink that beer during the whole night...or have my limit and stop....but it's extremely rare...couple times a year pretty much...perhaps on like NY and a trip...(have to admit I drank way too much on my Mexico trip...so I am being a bit hypocritical...but I am not (elite) athlete(wrestler on the other quite clearly is...so for him it's even more of an issue)......and I realize I am setting myself to fail in a way....but day to day I don't drink any alcohol months at a time)
I think i was reading that resveratrol is found in nuts and other items but in very small quanitities....I think the amount in grape juice is tiny compared to red wine....gotta check on that tho....
this has been a great discussion....this is why forums like this are so invaluable....to average people looking for straight forward discussions and explanations of sometimes complex issues....
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2005/10/21, 08:55 AM
Ah, wrestler you misunderstand me. I was not questioning the presence of reservatrol in grape juice... just WHITE grape juice. If a tell-tale characteristic of reservatrol is the red peel (or husk in the case of the peanut), this would be absent in a white (green) grape.
I'll re-post these:
http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/resveratrol.html
http://www.drdaveanddee.com/grapejuice.html
Sorry for the mix-up.
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The strong shall stand, the weak will fall by the wayside.
Res ipsa loquitur
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2005/10/21, 10:53 AM
Yes, you would be correct.
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2005/10/22, 10:16 PM
Wow!...Sorry I came late boys and girls. I hate to miss a fight:
Wrestler was just throwing out some knowlege that could be beneficial to those of us who like to indulge in the drink. It was very informative(and accurate based on many sources and...duh...common freakin' sense people). It seemed in NO WAY TO BE BIAS OR JUDGEMENTAL. I have had my drinking moments(college, Sunday football, weddings, etc.) but coming from someone who HAS NOT BEEN GENETICALLY GIFTED, drinking really disrupts the muscle repair process and overall makes me feel like crap for a couple of days after a night of drinking. YES, I'm sure if you are lifting 5 times per week and eating decent while binge drinking on the weekends, you're still gonna build muscle, but at what quality and what cost?
When I'm dieting for a competition, every little thing you put into your body makes a difference. So when I drink while I'm dieting(which, unfortunately, I was stupid enough to do)it set me back at least 3-4 days which, as some of your competitors know, means the world. OK, so we are not all competative bodybuilders, but you get the point.
I'm going to continue to drink on occasion and I'm sure some of you will also. But just know that there is no benefit and it can take away from some quality gains. Like I said before, I AM NOT GENETICALLY GIFTED...I WORKED MY ASS OFF TO GET WHERE I AM and that included keeping the drinking to a reasonable amount and living a healthy lifestyle.
Good posts Wrestler and Menace. I personally like a glass of red wine.
CHARLIE YOU SLUT! HOW HAVE YOU BEEN!??!!
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Shut up and grow.
Thank God I don\'t have to got through another year of the Yankees winning the World Series.
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2005/10/23, 03:21 AM
JDELTS- Where have you been all this time??? Its good to have you back...
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To have talent is to have limits. I have no talent therefor I have no limits.
Steve Prefontaine
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/23, 12:16 PM
Wrestler, you really have turned into quite the fitness expert...good posts. I've been busy with work and life, but I figured I would check back in with FT.
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Shut up and grow.
Thank God I don\'t have to got through another year of the Yankees winning the World Series.
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