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2005/10/19, 11:33 AM
This mainly referes to the dl impaticular. I was wondering if you all really emphasized the negative portion....or just get to mid shin and let go?
I was reading some articles about this, and it said that this trains negatitve strength, and that the dl is just an UP motion so just to empasize that not the negative.
I usually pull lockout,I dont' drop it, but i'm not slowing it down alot either. Of coarse this depends on which weight room guy is in there, some don't mind it hitting the ground others they want you to lower it in a "controled easy fasson" lol
So whats you all thoughts? ideas?
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/19, 03:27 PM
well i personally would lower it smoothed and controlled because not only is it going to still be working your back for that long... but it also wont annoy the other poeple in the gym. if you lower it slow AND controlled then you will be using your muscles a lot more. Think about like the bench or something, you dont lower the weight real fast, instead you lower it slow for a better pump... just my .02
-nate
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2005/10/19, 04:25 PM
If you lower slowly, you are training the concentric portion of the lift, and training your lowering strength.
Nate- The deadlift is the most demanding of the three powerlifts. The added stress of lowering a heavy dl is oftentimes more than your back should be exposed to. I emphasize heavy, as this is the powerlifting forum. The deadlift is so demanding in fact, that most well designed powerlifting programs, westside included, include the deadlift at the MOST once every two weeks.
Also, most powerlifters aren't after a pump. I rarely go over a set of 5 on the bench, and over a triple on the deadlift. That is never enough to get a pump. If I am getting a pump after doing a 5 rep set, then it is time for some lactic acid tolerance training.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/20, 03:45 PM
thats what I was thinking..
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/20, 03:46 PM
also bench is different caus eyou do have to control it on the way down, the dl you don't. If you don't control the bench.....it will slam against your chest...same with squat
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/20, 07:22 PM
Many people show significant increases in the deadlift while stagnating in the bench and squat BECAUSE of this principle. The concentric portion of the lift doesn't cause as many micro-tears in the muscle fibers. As a result, concentric based training is often time much easier to recover from. That is why almost all GPP work has NO eccentric portion. Sled dragging, tire flipping, other forms of strong man and GPP work all emphasize the positive, concentric portion of the lift. This is because GPP and recovery work isn't supposed to be as taxing on your body, and so most of this type of work is entirely concentric based.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
Light weight is an oxymoron.
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2005/10/20, 07:24 PM
As for the squat, this is one of the primary reasons the box squat is so effective. A parallel squat requires you to drop into the hole, hold, and then reverse your motion. This puts A LOT of stress on the the negative portion of the lift, forcing you to decelerate the weight and then pause. The box squat allows you to minimize this deceleration. Since you are sitting down on a box, you no longer have to slow the weight to a stop, you can just sit down and back.
That is why recovery time is significantly shorter following a box squat session. The emphasis on the eccentric on the parallel squat is also the reason you may experiance much greater DOMS (delayed onset muscle soreness) after a heavy parallel squat session.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
Light weight is an oxymoron.
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2005/10/20, 09:25 PM
I was watching a guy deadlift. He was doing 225 hit it once. then went up to 275 same one time. then added till he had 315. He then proceeded to do one single after another. Adding weight on 2 sets till he had a total of 335. Now after each and every set he let the weight fall from about knee height. The loud crash scared the piss out of all of us. Not only that but since this was a YMCA and not a power lifter gym there were no bumper plates. Results? One bet bar, one brand new floor gouged and broken, on 45lb plate cracked cause the butt monkey did not make usre the plates were tight, instead on plate kept hitting at a angle and on his last booming set cracked. SO my opinion is if you have the right equipment you can dropp it. If not lower the best you can.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/10/20, 10:02 PM
For clarification, when I am talking about minimizing the negative, I don't mean dropping it from lock out. Let it down, but don't try to control it completely. I have a full olympic lifting platform and bumper plates both at home and at the gym I work out here.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
Light weight is an oxymoron.
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2005/10/20, 10:08 PM
concentric portion trains your abs/core like nothing else....so why not do it? I do no ab work simply because deadlift and squat kill abs so much...
I used to bounce the weight with about 3-4 inches left...when I cheated.....worked very well for me....but we have rubberized mats and plates...plus I do very few sets...max of 3...and more like 1-2...so I don't get to the point where I annoy the hell out of every1....
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2005/10/21, 08:01 PM
If the question is why not, then the answers are in the previous posts...
For someone like yourself, Menace, I would probably emphasize the negative, and use more taxing exercises. But that is because I know you take greater time off in between sessions than most people. Whenever I had a client that would train sporadically, I always worked heavy OR slow negatives into their workouts, just to overwork their body. BECAUSE I knew they would be taking the time off recover.
However, for most powerlifters, and athletes, such as andrew, that are probably deadlifting once a week, squatting once a week, and practicing every day, I would be very careful, and would go much easier on the negative portion of the lift. Especially while IN season.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
Light weight is an oxymoron.
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2005/10/22, 04:04 AM
I was training today with a friend at the main gym and these 2 school athletes, started doing deadlifts( on platform)...with like 135 to 185...dropped the weight from like the very top ....set after set....i was get very irritated.....I understand maxing and grip failing....but just pointlessly doing it....is lazy...why not do a bit of ab work and lower the work with control?....this following a set of squats (with these 2 guys)where they used olympic plates so it looked like these guys were using 500+lb...where in reality he was doing unde r225(keep in mind this guys were pretty big, one was 6'0 and 190 , and other was 6'3 and about 200)...but you shoulda 'heard' them fight for every fukn rep going down 1/2-2/3 of the way to parallel!!!!!...wanted to come over and slap some sense into them....can't believe these are the guys representing our U...:/
new addition to the annoying types at the gym: posser tag team screamers and droppers
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2005/10/22, 08:17 AM
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Quoting from menace3000:
concentric portion trains your abs/core like nothing else....so why not do it? I do no ab work simply because deadlift and squat kill abs so much...
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Do you mean eccentric? If you compete you have to control the eccentric(down) because if you don't you will get red lighted.
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2005/10/22, 08:18 AM
The only time I ever drop the weight is when I have Olympic plates on the bar on a platform working for speed.
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2005/10/22, 12:02 PM
Menace, if you think that is bad, then try coming over here. I have been training at our universities gym for 6 weeks now, and I have only seen 3 groups of people go to parallel. Two of them weren't from the school, and the other one was a competitive powerlifter. Talk about embarassing. And this is even when someone IS squatting. Which is rare.
Sometimes watching squats here hurts my knee. Just watching. And then, on our school website, some kid starts bragging about how we have on of the best training facilities out of the NCAA. ???? We have two squat racks that usually only get used for curling. I don't care if this kid DID know what he was talking about, (because smith machines and leg adductors don't make an athletic program, although we have plenty of those) no one on our sports teams knows how to use it.
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To have talent is to have limits. I have no talent therefor I have no limits.
Steve Prefontaine
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/22, 12:03 PM
oh, one more. My squat parter squats heavy and low. He's a bit bigger than me, but a great partner for squat workouts. So that makes 4.
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To have talent is to have limits. I have no talent therefor I have no limits.
Steve Prefontaine
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/22, 10:21 PM
Gator that's a big oops on my part...i totally mixed up the two terms....thanks for catching it....
those guys weren't working for speed it seemed....just normal tempo romanian style deadlifts...
Also gator what are the benefits of 1/3 front squats for volleyball/basketball players? why not do full? I realize that it's the position from which both type of players jump....but isn't there an advantage to working the muscles through full range of motion? Their instructor was watching them the whole time...it's possible they were working the partials...but not so sure...because people at the gym have a tendency to 1/3 or 1/2 squat for front or back squat....and they are using fairly light weight....
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2005/10/22, 10:33 PM
I like fulls. If I do partials I do them with back squats. You can hold more weight with a back squat and that is what a partial is all about.
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2005/10/23, 12:11 AM
yea....that's what I was thinking...
It just seems like the programs for the athletes are not individually tailored(I realize it's extremely difficult and time consuming but nevertheless)....nor are the athletes pushed as hard as they should be....and their weaknesses are not emphasized as much as they should be.....
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