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2005/11/03, 11:29 PM
Hi there, I have been weight training for about 6 months but have just become interested in incorporating squats and deadlifts into my program so I can progress towards more of a powerlifting routine.
I had a lower back disc injury about 3 years ago that has settled down nicely now, and I can squat just fine without any pain, but deadlifting even light weights (15kg plate per side) I end up with lower back pain.
I am not sure if it is just my form causing the trouble or if my old injury will make deads impossible for me to do ever. I would really like to dl if I could do it without pain.
I am quite tall 6 foot 2, and I have read all the stickys here etc so I am fairly confident my form isnt too bad, I seem to have trouble getting the bar past my knees on the way down, Im not sure if this is contributing to the problem or not as I have to lean forward slightly to get it on the floor. Any comments welcome.
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2005/11/04, 12:02 AM
- are starting off light?
- are you warmed up thoroughly?
- what kind of pain is it?
- have you experimented with your form to accomodate your body structure and injuries? (conventional vs sumo....different grips....different foot placement)
-try deadlifts off blocks....
generally though if you can squat heavy, you should be able to deadlift as well...these 2 lifts are very closely related and use similar muscle groups...
try to strengthen your lower back with other exercises....heavy hyper extensions and good mornings....both will make your lower back much stronger and deadlift much easier....try to progressively get heavier....
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2005/11/04, 12:20 AM
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Quoting from menace3000:
- are starting off light?
- are you warmed up thoroughly?
- what kind of pain is it?
- have you experimented with your form to accomodate your body structure and injuries? (conventional vs sumo....different grips....different foot placement)
-try deadlifts off blocks....
generally though if you can squat heavy, you should be able to deadlift as well...these 2 lifts are very closely related and use similar muscle groups...
try to strengthen your lower back with other exercises....heavy hyper extensions and good mornings....both will make your lower back much stronger and deadlift much easier....try to progressively get heavier....
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Thanks for your reply, in answer to your questions:
Yes I am fully warmed up before dl's, I can start really light like 10 - 20 kg without a problem but anything over this seems to cause pain in my old disc injury spot. It seems with squats I can keep my lower back perfectly straight so it doesnt seem to load the problem area, deads for some reason I can't. I am just using a standard form of feet armpit length apart, hands over and under about 2-3 inches further apart again, toes slightly splayed, weight flat on feet, head up shoulders back, hold breath and basically press up with legs and abs while levering at the hips. My knees still seem to get in the way for some reason :/
The gym has got power racks with a horizontal step at the front about 2 foot off the floor, I have seen guys deadlifting of these before, in this case there would be a very small range of movement perhaps only a foot or so movement of the bar.
I am cautious about doing stiff leg dl's or anything that could cause me to end up in the hospital if I do it wrong :) Cheers.
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2005/11/04, 01:06 AM
good mornings... good morning... good morning...
get your back used to heavy weight, and make sure your form is on. are you keeping your back arched or flat???
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The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. ~~~Hunter S. Thompson
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/11/04, 01:06 AM
Have you tried sumo stance? it uses more hip strength and less back.....could be useful...
do you experience slight pain or considerable pain? is the pain same for whether u're lifting lighjt or heavy?
I used to have backpain and when I started to consistantly train my lower back at first through light pain, it went away....not saying this could be of use for you as I don't know your condition....and I am not a doctor...but it's something to consider...
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2005/11/04, 01:13 AM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
good mornings... good morning... good morning...
get your back used to heavy weight, and make sure your form is on. are you keeping your back arched or flat???
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mmmkay Ill, look into good mornings :)
I try to keep my back as straight as flat and just lever from the hips.
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2005/11/04, 01:24 AM
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Quoting from menace3000:
Have you tried sumo stance? it uses more hip strength and less back.....could be useful...
do you experience slight pain or considerable pain? is the pain same for whether u're lifting lighjt or heavy?
I used to have backpain and when I started to consistantly train my lower back at first through light pain, it went away....not saying this could be of use for you as I don't know your condition....and I am not a doctor...but it's something to consider...
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No I haven't tried sumo. Its only mild pain, nothing serious but the sort of an annoying ache that once has set in is with you for the rest of the day maybe 2, more annoying than anything else but from experience is indicative of loading my back in ways it shouldn't be loaded. I find with most of my lifting I can get away with reasonable weights as long as my form is spot on, eg I can easily get the same sort of pain while squatting if I try to squeeze out another rep in bad form by leaning forward slightly while coming up using the back as a lever in the lift a bit. I think its the whole leaning forward bit that does it, hence my concern with my stupid knees getting in the way while dl'ing :)
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2005/11/04, 01:28 AM
Always keep your chest out as much as possible...so u have an ARCH in your back....lock it in and keep it that way through each and every rep...
if it's only mild pain you can try to lift progressively heavier and see if the pain goes away after a month or so...
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2005/11/04, 07:06 AM
I am not sure with a former back injury that good mornings are a good thing. I would take it very slow with them.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/11/04, 12:28 PM
I think it would be less detrimental than deadlifting. I might say a good supplemental exercise would be romainian deadlifts.
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The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over. ~~~Hunter S. Thompson
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/11/04, 12:32 PM
actually the stress on the lower back is much greater doing a true good morning, when compared to a deadlift. I can not tell you how many people I know one to one that have hurt themselves on it. I do them now, but that took me 10 years to get the courage up. I would suggest hypers and very very light deadlifts for at least 1-3 months before really adding weight. Also I would suggest to add some abs in there as well.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/11/04, 05:36 PM
I actually strengthened my back prior deadlifts with heavy hyperextensions both on glute/ham machine and lower back machine in our gym...I moved to deadlifts after running out of weights on the machine....but then again I was pretty ignorant back the about better ways of lifting...
so yea try hyperextensions on glute/ham machine......go down low and then go upas much as you can....I like to explode....but with your injury do it slowly and controlled....every other workout try to increase by 5 lb....so after u do 10-12 reps on glute ham machine hold a 5lb palte, then 10, then 15, then 20 and so forth....after u get through 45....start using DBs.....or even before if u find them more comfortable to hold...
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2005/11/05, 05:43 AM
Thanks for all your replys, I have decided to to stick with light weight deads/sumos and try and strengthen my back with weighted hypers.
Good mornings and sldl look abit dangerous at the moment, maybe when things get abit stronger :)
See how we go and thanks again.
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2005/11/06, 05:08 PM
menace... how do you explode on hyperextensions?... i get the biggest head rush in the world and i get dizzy for a little bit. hahaha. i obviously know how you do it... but how do you not get that rush...
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2005/11/06, 11:22 PM
dunno...don't get those
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