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2006/03/19, 01:03 PM
I recently met with a trainer and he recommended this list of supplements for my cut diet (I have 15% bf and am looking to burn up to 15 lbs., dropping me to 7%). I just wanted to know if people think this stuff is viable, as Ive never heard of many of them.
Supplements:
1. R-ALA (R-ISOMER)
(http://www.dpsnutrition.net/product_information.asp?number=SY043&back=search&dept=)
2. ZIP!
(http://proteinfactory.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=108&osCsid=fba0af3700fd9c78a5ecb61d23de0917)
3.DEXTROSE (Im not sure if this is appropriate for a cutting diet)
{http://proteinfactory.com/store/product_info.php?products_id=55&osCsid=fba0af3700fd9c78a5ecb61d23de0917}
4.ACETYL L CARNITINE 500 mg
What do you guys think?
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2006/03/19, 01:13 PM
He also recommended liver pills.
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2006/03/19, 01:27 PM
1. very slightly improves insulin sensitivity/creatine asborption....mostly BS.....would not take it
2. Decent product...but ingredients are on the low side....15mg of 7-Keto? I was taking 100mg morning 100mg at night....so...15mg ain't $hit....
http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.asp?xs=7FA7D6E0F6A243DEA8FB0F7D68488310&PID=771&CPID=6795&np=1
3. Good with PWO shake.....to spike insulin and improve protein absorption....however it's not necessary...I would skip it...
4. to improve fat lose....I got nothing out of it and I was taking 4 times that....
I would skip most of these....
if you really want to get something ...
7-Keto....from the site I posted...100mg morning and 100mg night....
200-600mg caffeine daily(get generic of AWAKE or some other it's OTC in pharmacy)....+81mg aspirin on workout days...
5g of fish oil capsules morning+5mg of fish oil capsules night....
gugglesterone is sold separately
http://www.puritan.com/pages/file.asp?xs=7FA7D6E0F6A243DEA8FB0F7D68488310&PID=537&CPID=815&np=1
here's a list of top supplements including some already listed....
Ma Huang (Ephedra) and Guarana (caffeine)
These are the herbal versions of ephedrine and caffeine. They work via stimulation of the beta 1, 2,and 3 receptors. These receptors play a very intimate role in fat loss, especially the beta 2's. Beta 1's are found primarily in cardiac muscle and this is what primarily stimulates elevation of the heart rate. I believe (this is a theory) that adding synephrine to this type of product will somewhat calm the effect on the heart rate to an extent (see synephrine).
Norephedrine
This was another effective weight loss agent that has unfortunately bitten the dust. Was it banned because it was ultimately a high-risk product? Well there were a few studies indicating that women (but not men) had a higher risk of stroke when using Norephedrine products. Then on the flipside, I knew a plethora of female fitness competitors who used MD6 or Adipokinetix (both Norephedrine-based fat burners) with great success and no side effects whatsoever. In fact, the consensus was that it was less stimulatory to the CNS (central nervous system) than regular 'ol ma huang or ephedrine, i.e., no shaking like a human-jackhammer. You can still find some Adipokinetix floating around here and there. Syntrax, the company behind Adipokinetix seems to somehow do a brilliant job of staying below the FDA radar which amazes me after all the heat they caught from the original Triax (tiratricol) being banned. MD6 by Biotest is still on the market , but has since switched the formula up to comply with FDA regulations on Norephedrine.
Synephrine
Synephrine is nothing terribly new or exciting, but it does seem to add to the benefits of the traditional Ma Huang/Guarana combo. Synephrine is essentially ephedrine's little brother. It acts very similarly, but it' simply exerts a weaker effect. What are the benefits of combining this with ephedrine? This is just a theory (don't all profound discoveries start as a theory?) but I believe because it is chemically similar, it acts as a competitive inhibitor to the beta receptors that impact our heart rate the most (beta 1's), hence, lessening the impact of the ma Huang on the users heart rate without dulling the fat burning effects. It also seems to extend the effect of the product so that the "crash" is not so dramatic as it is with straight ephedrine/caffeine. I believe tyrosine will also contribute to this effect since it is a natural amino acid precursor to the same neurotransmitters that we are running on when we use ephedrine and caffeine.
Tiratricol
This one had everybody excited for a minute when it first hit the market, that is, until we found out that it actually suppresses TSH more than it stimulated T3 production. In plain English, it slowed the thyroid down more than it helped to speed it up. So what does this mean to the user? You'll be packing up and moving into Rebound City, USA shortly after discontinuing use. Of course the post-use weight gain will differ depending on the individual's resilience to metabolic shutdown, the dose they were using, and how long they took Triax without a break. It was actually a prescription drug in Europe by the name of Triacana, and somehow Derek Cornelius (the owner of Syntrax) slipped it through the cracks of an FDA loophole.
T2 (diiodothyronine)
Now this one had me genuinely stoked. Actually it still does. Unfortunately it just got yanked from the market so good luck finding it once the Biotest's supplies dry up. Was T2 new when Biotest released it? No, not really. It had actually been on the market for some time before in Syntrax's Lipokinetix product. For some reason, no one payed any attention to it though. Not too mention, Lipokinetix contained usnic acid (a protein uncoupler similar to an herbal DNP, a.k.a., Dinitrophenol) as well. Probably not the healthiest stuff on the planet. So what makes T2 so special you ask? It acts similarly to T3 in terms of boosting the metabolic rate and caloric expenditure, but with little to no shutdown of TSH when used in reasonable amounts. It seems to be a dieters dream-come-true. Unfortunately like many other effective products, all good things must come to pass when the FDA has something to say about it. The bottom line- it was just too darn close to being a drug. The pharmaceutical guys don't really like that too much. Bye bye T2. We'll miss you bud.
7-keto DHEA (3-Acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone)
Will 7-keto win the "mind-blowing, super fat-shredder of the year award?" I kinda doubt it. However there is a body of evidence and relative research indicating that this may be a product worth adding into the mix when trying to lose fat. It doesn't convert to estrogen like regular DHEA and it has been shown in studies to appreciably elevate T3 without stimulating change in TSH or T4. That's enough in and of itself to make this product worth considering, especially for you older guys who are experiencing a natural age-related decline of DHEA levels.
Gugglesterone (E and Z)
Gugglesterone, also known as gum guggul extract, gugulipid, or commiphora mukul, is an Ayurvedic herb that seems to aid in T4 to T3 conversion. This may be less significant at the start of a fat loss diet, but as calories are further reduced and carb intake is lowered the body will slow the conversion of thyroid hormones, hence slowing the metabolism. Gugglesterone (Prolab Thyrolean is a reputable source) will help prevent this from happening. As a little side bonus, it has also been shown to lower serum triglyceride levels as well as LDL and VLDL (the bad cholesterols).
Coleus Forskolii (Forskolin)
This just goes to show you never know what's gonna blow up next in this industry. I mentioned this stuff as "worth looking at" in a thyroid article I wrote years ago. In fact, it was the second article I had ever written. A few years later, lo and behold, Dan "The Guru" Duchaine is propping it in an Ironman article and as history has proven, everything he touched, for the most part, seemed to turn to supplemental gold. Next thing you know, Triax is banned and forskolin hits the market in the form of Triax 2. Now it's all over the place: EAS Beta Lean, Twinlab Extreme Ripped Fuel, Biotest T2 Pro, Next Nutrition Ultimate Orange (also by Duchaine), and several others as well. What's so good about this stuff? Well so far forskolin has been shown in studies to help fat loss in a couple of ways. The first is through a long, complicated sequence of biochemical reactions that is way beyond the scope of this article. In short, it helps to mobilize and metabolize fatty acids for fuel. The second is by stimulating T3 production and if you've been reading any of these articles then you already know how critical T3 levels are to fat loss. This, in my opinion, makes forskolin a worthy fat-shedding comrade.
from
http://www.shapeshiftermagazine.com/4/01.htm
on a final note...the biggest change will come from your diet...so make sure it's tip top ....
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2006/03/19, 05:12 PM
Actually r-ala is very beneficial. For more than bodybuilding, it allows Vit. C and E for instance to be better uptaken, and better utilzed, plus your natural stores. Great for blood sugars...i.e..diabetics. Has been shown in studies to allow more glucose uptake pwo.
ALcar has been shown also in numerous studies to have many benefits. Aside from bodybuilding(again, everything is not about bodybuilding), alertness, anti-aging and nutrient repartitioning properties. ALCAR supplementation is also accompanied by many positive structural changes in the brain in both the young and the old. It stimulates nerve growth factor (NGF) binding.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/03/19, 05:14 PM
Oh yeah, liver pills are very old school. Supplement from the old days, that is highly beneficial. Problem lies in quality these days. Most companies that still do make them add whey for instance, a cheap additive that is useless and ups their profit margin.
Beverly makes the only pure dessicated liver pills on the market I know of, Ultra 40 they are called.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/03/19, 08:11 PM
Here is the sample diet I was given including the supplements and when to digest them. Should I replace them with something else?:
WORKOUT DAYS (when you do weight training)
7.30 am breakfast
9 egg whites omelette (use fat free spray) and oatmeal made from 1/2 cup oats
2 pills R-ALA (R-ISOMER) 2 pills ZIP
5 LIVER PILLS
500 mg Acetyl L-Carnitine
10.0 pm lunch time
protein shake 2 scoops mixed in water 1 tbs flex seed oil
1 multivitamin
12.3o pm lunch time
6 oz chicken breast, lean beef or fish with vegetables.
example 1 chicken breast with veggies. See list below.
3.30 PM before the training
1 green apple, green tea or coffee (with Splenda or Equal sweetener), 2 pills ZIP!
500 mg Acetyl L-Carnitine
4 PM workout ( i assume you workout at 4 pm)
5 PM postworkout meal
mix 2 scoops of protein powder and 2 scoop of dextrose in 10 oz water.
1 multivitamin
2- R-ALA pills (R-ISOMER)
6.30 pm DINNER AT HOME
6 oz Chicken breast, beef, or fish with 1 1/2 cup brown rice or 1 medium size sweet potato
2 pills R-ALA
9.30 pm 2 scoops protein shake mixed in water with 2 tbsp of natural peanut butter or 1 tbs flex seed oil. 1 multivitamin
500 mg Acetyl L-Carnitine
BEFORE THE SLEEP 5 LIVER PILLS
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2006/03/20, 04:39 PM
Also, would you recommend C2 or 7 Keto over ZIP?
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2006/03/20, 09:09 PM
Either C2 or 7keto are good supplements....however they work a bit differently. You will "feel" something from the C2, which may sway you to use it more. 7 keto works on a much more subtle basis, no stims involved.
zip I know nothing about.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/03/21, 04:23 PM
Can I Use C2 And Keto Simultaneously? Has Anyone Tried Zip?
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2006/03/21, 09:10 PM
I see no reason why you couldn't use them both. May work well together, as the different mechanisms they work by may well be synergystic.
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Strength and Honor!
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