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2006/05/10, 05:57 PM
I've been working really hard and come a long way now, but my bench just seems to be lagging behind. My deadlifts and squats have gone up nearly 100 pounds to 225, but my bench is only 145 1 max rep. i'm almost 170 pounds, so this seems incredibly weak to me. What am I doing wrong?
When I bench, I don't have a problem pushing the weight off my chest. It's the last 4-6 inches that I just can't push through. And then when I'm done, my chest just doesn't feel like it got a work out. I feel my form is decent, and I don't bounce the weight off my chest. It's discouraging when everything else is going up, but my bench just isn't going anywhere.
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2006/05/10, 08:42 PM
If you goal is strength...then I suggest practicing a big arch in your lower back....which means digging your shoulder back and together as much as possible and then trying to bring your butt as close to your shoulders as possible while digging it into the bench....the next key is to stay very tight and maintain tension in your body...plant your feet firmly into the ground underneath you or at your sides...to create a solid foundation....bring the bar down to just below lower pecs...(xyphoid)...I prefer a fairly wide grip with thumbs on or just past outer rings...(this slightly helps my tricep weakness...same problem as urs)...look straight up or up and slightly forward....
What does your bench workout look like?
generally if you want strength then doing low rep high intensity sets works well...as can using negatives...
You can approach your sticking point in many ways...
You can do isometric holds at the sticking point with supramaximal weight or something in the 95-105% ....
You can work on strengthening the upper portion of the lift(your triceps)...by doing heavy close grip bench ,floor presses, dips, heavy pushdowns,etc ...close grip bench is probably best since it's so close to the bench in technique and feel....in terms of carryover...
You can also do Dynamic Work...doing 30-65% of 1rm 1-3 rep sets for maximal speed....like 10 sets of 1....to improve your acceleration of the chest to bust through the sticking points.....
check out Scott Mendelsons technique for 715 bench....or check out this months Muscle and Fitness mag...Mendy outlines keys to his bench press form....it made a huge difference for my bench...
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2006/05/10, 08:49 PM
Ok, time for some triceps. Try doing heavy rack lockouts or some other kind of partial bench press. This will help you build lockout strength. Your chest isn't getting a workout because it is obviously much stronger than your triceps. People get that confused-strong triceps push you through the bench. Top exercises I recommend: Partial Bench Presses, Dips, Tricep extension, Close grip bench Press. It sounds to me like you're just doing a bench press every workout. You need to strengthen your main movers (triceps), lats, and shoulders through other exercises. It's all about pinpointing your weaknesses. Hope this helps and the others should pick up anything I missed.
There is all kinds of stuff on this website that could help you out, but to make it easier on you, go to this website and write yourself up a West Side For Skinny Bastards routine. It is great for beginners and you will add some good size as well.
http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside.htm
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/05/10, 08:50 PM
Menace, I was writing that one right as you posted yours I guess. Wasn't trying to be repetitive.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/05/10, 08:50 PM
i do high weight, low reps. usually between 4-6 reps for 3 sets, once a week. i don't have a spotter, since it's a home gym and none of my neighbors workout. so i do as much weight as i trust myself to be able to do 4-6 reps in without dropping the bar on myself.
with squats and deadlifts, i have a cage, so i'm not afraid to use more weight since i can drop it without worrying about anything. i'd like to be able to put my bench inside my cage when i bench, so that if i fail, i won't crush myself, but my bench is exactly as wide as the cage is, so there's no way to put it inside.
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2006/05/10, 08:56 PM
i follow the 12 week mass builder program (but tweak it with less reps, more weight), so i workout all the major muscle groups. i only do bench once a week, as per the program. i'm gonna start focusing on triceps more, and changing my bench form as suggested here and see if that helps. thanks for the advice.
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2006/05/10, 09:29 PM
No prob Aron...it's still good to have a few different people chime in...even if we are all saying the same thing...:)...
Can you buy a separate bench? u can get a used bench for fairly cheap at playitagainsports or some other places....just make sure it's sturdy to handle significant amount of weight...and it's an olympic sized bench...
Can u do floor presses inside the cage? or off blocks?
Maybe try singles with 3rm....do 3-5 sets....
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2006/05/10, 09:45 PM
locking out your bench press is mainly triceps as stated before in earlier posts..working on triceps will help you locking out, especially close-grip bench, since it is almost identical in form..other than that, pectoral flies always help your chest get stronger..without the use of triceps, doing pectoral flies could make your chest get a much more intense workout since your lacking tricep muscles wont hold you back..however, bench press is the most important exercise for overall chest development..good luck
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2006/05/11, 04:53 PM
If you have a cage, then do rack lockouts on the bench.
Another thing you could try, if your worried about spotters, is take a big arch, and set the pins slightly below where the bar will touch your chest. If you can't make the lift, deflate your chest, lose your arch, and set the bar on the rack.
Other than that, what everyone else said, I agree with for the most part. Except dgj3...
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/05/11, 06:08 PM
lol wrestler, stop picking on the newcomers! LOL
Body awareness is another key....sometimes I space out and the bar goes sideways...so always be completely focused....d.mn add
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2006/12/17, 03:53 PM
i'm seeing some improvement in my benching since i've started hammering on my triceps, but i'm still having some issues. i can crank out an easy 10 reps with 135 pounds, but as soon as i bump it up to 145, 4-5 reps and i'm toast. it doesn't make any sense to me, and all the calculators i've been using say my 1 rep max should be 180+ if i can bang out 10 reps at 135. but 4-5 reps of 145 is more like a one rep max of 160.
as i said, i have no spotter, and i actually got stuck the other night trying to push out 7 reps with 145. i ended up just lifting my ass off the bench and arching my body, and then the weight wasn't even a challenge to put up. it's very weird, because when i get stuck, it's not like the muscle shaking holy crap this is too heavy feeling. it's just like the bar won't move no matter what i do to it.
my chest has always been my weak point. i'm about to break the 300 pound mark with my deadlifts, but i can't use more than matching plates and small change on my bench. i know benching isn't the be all/end all of strength, but it makes me feel incredibily weak when i know my overall body strength is greatly increasing, but i'm still stuck benching what most people off the street who don't work out could probably bench.
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2006/12/17, 10:12 PM
seriously dude.. dont talk yourself down so much. just keep hittin it hard and trying. its all mental if thats how you feel all the time. i have a piss poor bench too... it just takes time, and its easily my worst lift. just keep working at it and make sure to take somethin out of the advice from above... good luck
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2006/12/18, 09:15 PM
Wrestler, I'm not trying to change the subject but this question came to mind when I read your last post in this thread.
How do you feel about the fact that most full power meets allow bench only lifters? What is your opinion on bench only competition? Do you think that powerlifting should be full power only? Do you have an opinion at all on it?
Ok so that's like 4 questions. Sorry lol.
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2006/12/18, 01:22 PM
eh, bench doesn't mean that much anyways. Whats the attraction? Unless you are a powerlifter, there's no nead to be beating yourself up over it.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/18, 02:34 PM
because i want all my lifts to go up. why is bench any less important to increase than deadlifts or squats? i don't go around lifting cars and carrying boulders on my shoulders either. it's just the fact that my chest is lagging behind everything else, not because i want to walk up to people and brag that i can bench 400. it's frustrating to continue to be weak in such a basic movement despite your best efforts to improve it.
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2006/12/18, 04:05 PM
i think it's your set up that is holding you back...
if you can generate momentum with your ass by getting it of the bench then you're not set up well....I really dig my butt into the bench and as close to my shoulders as I can...dig my feet well...take a deep breath and hold it...etc..whenever I dont ....I lose at least 50lb on my max.....
I would also not stress so much about bench....try doing a different variation or switch to dips...
also what are your OHP numbers? for the longest of time I was slacking on overhead pressing movements and my bench stuck where it was for a while as well as making my shoulders weaker than they should have been...
There's asbolutely nothing with wanting a 300,400, 500, etc bench....as long as you put it in proper perspective...
I will bet you that when you get stronger in dips, push presses, chin ups , etc....your bench will also increase...
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2006/12/18, 05:15 PM
my one rep max for a standing military press is between 125-130.
next time i have a chest day, i will try to take a video of myself pressing. i don't really feel any pressure from the lower half of my back when i bench press. it's all on my shoulders/upper back
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2006/12/18, 05:22 PM
i do 5x5 sets of wide grip pull ups on my back day (after my deadlifts. i don't have a dip setup since i moved, but i suppose that's something i can put back into my routine if need be.
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2006/12/18, 08:37 PM
It's less important because it has the least carryover to everything else.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with it, but reevaluate your thinking.
OH strength isn't an issue, nor is lat strength. That leaves triceps, chest, interal and external rotation.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/18, 11:43 PM
If someone wants to be a bench specialist, then that is their choice. However, the sport of powerlifting is about having a huge TOTAL.
I participate in strongman because you can never say it is boring. The events are always different, always changing, and provide an excellent indication of overall.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/19, 09:21 AM
Yes Strongman is a very interesting sport to compete in. I'd lke to try it one day but I don't think my heart could take it lol.
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2006/12/21, 07:06 PM
i really tried to focus tonight when i was benching. it's definitely my arms that are giving out. my chest is never sore nore does it ever feel like i worked it out directly (unless i do decline bench for some reason). so i'm gonna switch over to dumbell presses for a while until i get my triceps up to snuff.
how wide out do you guys grab the bar when you bench? my bar is a little different, as it it smooth in the middle 2 feet or so of the bar, and the rest is fully knurled from there to the end of the bar. there's no rings or changes back to smooth again. i use an olympic bench, so you can use that as a reference point (ie, "i keep my hands 6 inches from the bar holders on each side").
thanks again for all the help. i tried taking a video but it's already dark here and the light i have in the room just isn't cutting it.
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2006/12/21, 09:08 PM
i have my hands as close to the bar holders as is safely possible....1-2 inches away from the holders for safety issues...my weakness is the lockout also...
I suggest not to swtich to dumbell presses ...you may want to supplement your bench training with WEIGHTED/heavy dips and partial dips for low reps...few sets....
partials on bench with heavier weight are also good...
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2006/12/21, 11:26 PM
just curious on why you suggest i not use dumbell presses?
i gotta figure out a way to do weighted dips, cuz i don't have a dip bar. i just tested out grabbing the bar as wide as you do when you bench, but it puts me in a position where my arms aren't long enough to unhook or hook the bar on/off the bench by myself.
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2006/12/21, 11:32 PM
Maybe you need rest, a week off.
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2006/12/21, 11:48 PM
Acute overtraining is not likely a cause of a chronically weak bench press.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/25, 08:11 PM
I think you need to learn to cycle some rep/ excercises....spend 3 weeks on a "style" of bench...then change it. Buy some chains, maybe some cheap bands if your really serious.
Also....try doing singles a workout...try for 2 to 3 reps at 90% or more...example...
So you'd want to work up to a 130 single or so.
so...
45/ warm up
60/3
70/3
80/3
90/3
100/2
110/2
120/1
130/1
the following week add 5 lbs..take 2 mins rest between sets. You want to work up to a 3 sets of 90%+
I agree with menence....dbs won't help you much here...thats a for most part a bodybyulding movement.
If you want you bench better stick with moves with the bar...alternating grips, changing heights...like in pin presses, floore presses etc.
evaluate your from as well
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/12/25, 10:40 PM
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Quoting from bigandrew:
I agree with menence....dbs won't help you much here...thats a for most part a bodybyulding movement.
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What's your reasoning here?
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/26, 12:53 AM
for me i believe dumbells are good to make a bench stronger only if you are an uneven strength left and right.
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Veni,Vidi,Vici.= I came, I saw, I conquered.- Ceasar
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2006/12/28, 04:46 PM
Just do I don't think the weight is enough to be lifted to yield results.
hard to do a max 3 rep with dbs....good for volume though
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/12/28, 04:51 PM
Not sure about your gyms but getting heavy enough DBs is quite difficult at many gyms....Once you get to a certain level....most gyms dont carry heavy enough DBs to do ME for bench....esp if you plan to go low rep....
If you need a change from bench... I would just go with Dips...
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2006/12/28, 05:02 PM
yeah mine only go up to 120's....thats 240 total....and the idea of max effort training I thought was 65%-90%...if you bench over 300....thats really not enough weight....might be more difficult cause of the extra range of motion...
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/12/28, 09:00 PM
Yes, you use less weight, but dumbbells require much greater stability, an important factor in athletic development.
If anything, it is the opposite, with BB Bench being a "bodybuilding thing".
ME is not the only way to get stronger. I would not recommend anything less than a 3rm for dumbbell work. Also, you mean to say that ME is 90%+, not >90%. And I'm pretty sure that since adalos is not pressing 300+ that this will not be a problem.
If you are failing 6 inches from the top, this is just about when the triceps are taking over to finish the lift. You may not be properly activating your triceps. This is a problem for many lifters. Focus on contracting your tricepsand pulling the bar apart from the time the bar hits your chest, and see if this makes a difference. What do your dip numbers look like?
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/28, 09:05 PM
Using 120's would be a heck of a lot harder than benching with 240 lbs on a barbell, I promise. Also, Adalos benches 145, so he could definitely do ME with dumbbells.
Some advantages to using dumbbells: Dumbbells require more balance and control than barbells, bettering your kinesthetic awareness. They recruit stabilizer muscles, which enhances joint stability.
It may be difficult to do a ME exercise with dumbbells without a spotter. If you get one, however, it is definitely possible.
Both Andrew and Leo bench more (a heck of a lot more) than me, but I believe dumbbells can be great, whether for bodybuilding, powerlifting, or other athletes.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/12/28, 09:13 PM
"Learning to focus on your triceps is actually something that comes more from proper training protocol than from technique, but it is important to mentally focus on firing your triceps immediately when you begin to press the bar up. By focusing on your triceps initially, they will already be “engaged” when it’s time to lock out the bar. If this isn’t done, there will be a slight stall in the transition between the initial press and the lockout portion of the lift. Many lifts fail at this point. This is also a reason to include speed work in your program, but that will be discussed in a later article."
Mike Strom is better at explaining things than me.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/28, 11:22 PM
he failing at the 6in mark.....he doesn't have a stablization issue, or he would have said he was hitting the bar on the way up.
There I say stick with the barbell....floore presses, boards etc.
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/12/29, 09:46 AM
i've been listening to a lot of what (everyone) has to say here, and i'm seeing some better results. i worked my way up to 6 reps at 155 last night. i know i could have hit 7 reps if i had a spotter.
my ass keeps wanting to come off the bench tho to finish off the rep. it's like my feet aren't sticking well enough into the ground (my legs don't feel like they're part of the lift at all). i don't know if i just have short legs or what. should i try putting a block of wood where my feet end up so that they're firmly planted? it seems to me that this is why my ass tries to come up at the end of the rep, since i can't depend on my legs as a foundation.
i think it's time for a new bench. i like the olympic one i have, but i need something that is adjustable so i can make it incline/decline. i've still been using dumbells to finish off my chest day. it helps me feel like my actual chest muscles are getting worked, where as with normal bb benching, my arms and the area between my shoulder and pecs are the only spots i'm feeling anything.
next week i'm gonna drag my brother over and make him spot me while i try for a 1rm of around 180. i'll let you know how it goes. thanks for all the help.
oh, does sports authority sell chains? or should i just buy some at like home depot? how heavy of a chain should i be looking at purchasing?
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2006/12/29, 11:11 AM
I've noticed that when I'm lifting without a spotter and I start to struggle with a last rep my butt pulls off the bench. I think I do this to artificially create a decline type position and make it easier to finish the lift.
My guess would be that you would be better with keeping your butt on the bench if you had a spotter. Having a spotter helps you push yourself more because you don't have the worry of not being able to do the lift.
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2006/12/29, 01:50 PM
Get the chains at home depot. We use 1/4 inch, and use 3/16" supporting chains. When you go to ask for them, they are going to look at you funny, and wonder why you want such heavy chains.
I never said he had a stabilization issue andrew, I said that your comment that DB bench is a bodybuilding movement was misinformed, in that if anything, it is more an athletic movement than BB bench.
Set your feet wider, much wider, and back further than you are used to having them. This allows you to get a powerful leg drive without letting your butt come off the bench.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/29, 04:54 PM
That should say 1/2" chain.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/29, 05:24 PM
Like others have already mentioned...if lockouts are difficult then I would avoid DBs and use barbells....and do lockouts(partials)/boardpresses with and without chains/bands for more weight then you can push for full ROM....it will get your body adjusted to pushing heavier weight and strengthen your weak point....
I think nothing we really do in the weight room will carry over specifically to the sport but pushing heavier weights with a barbell will probably produce greater strength results than with DBs which will mean better results outside the weight room....the exercises that stress stability/balance/flexibility to a higher extent can be done outside the weight room imo...it's obviously a very individual issue...some people find that specific training works better for them ...so that in their case perhaps DBs will produce better results...or sandbag training or whatever else....
Well I am heading over to office depot for some chains....will be a cool way to change things up in my training....didnt even know they had them...would have been murder paying the S&H on those things I bet..
I am setting my sights on 455+ bench this year....and +275 dips.....and 300 push press....:)
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2006/12/29, 05:57 PM
You're headig to office depot for chains? Pick me up a fax machine and some note paper while your over there...
I'm not saying DB's are more athletic because they stress stability. We're not talking bosu ball standing 1 legged overhead squat stuff here. We are talking about it teaches more muscles to work properly stabilizing each other, as well as strengthening the stabilizers (not training stabilization, but strengthening the muscles that do this).
When in sport do your arms do the exact same thing simultaneously?
Cressey, Boyle, and Cosgrove have all written about it in the past. I believe Boyle is currently training all his athletes without using a barbell AT ALL for upper body. While I like to keep things a little more nuetral, you can see the results he is getting from it.
I agree sport specific stuff should be done outside the weight room. I still think that DB press is a strength movement.
Back on topic, yes, stick with lockouts.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/12/29, 06:19 PM
lol @ office depot. an honest mistake, but a hilarious mental picture of menace walking into office depot and demanding 1/2 inch steel chains for weightlifting. i can just see the smirk on the skinny little IT nerd guy's face as he points menace in the direction of home depot.
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2006/12/29, 08:59 PM
ahahaha.....man....you can guess how fried I am during lunch at work....
home depot it is then...perhaps I'll also pick up an 8lb sledge....i been using 16lb chocked but it's still too much for me....would be nice to see if i can handle an 8lb....that reminds me to get a file for the grippers....want to do some BTRs but been too lazy to buy one...
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2007/01/03, 05:39 PM
i posted this in the PR thread, but i just had my brother come over to spot me, and i put up 175 x 3 (no chest bouncing either). i wasn't satisfied though, so i told him to throw another 5 on each side and i did a clean 185 x 1. my personal goal for a long time has been breaking 200, so now i finally feel like that's something i can attain and that all the hard work is paying off. i know most of you probably warm up with 185, but it's huge for me, and i even impressed my brother (who of course thinks of me as a weakling, as all brothers do).
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2007/01/03, 07:04 PM
Dude, that's huge. What do you think made the difference?
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Iron and chalk.
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2007/01/03, 08:11 PM
i think a large part of it was mental. i just really wanted it. that combined with all the advice i've gotten in this thread (back arch, closing your shoulder blades, getting my legs under me).
i think i found my strong spot as far as grabbing the bar as well. it's about halfway between a normal grip and a really wide grip for me. it felt really comfortable.
it's weird how much of lifting seems to be on the mental side of things. i totally talked myself out of a 255 pound deadlift the other day, even though i've done that as a 3 rep before. for some reason i was just scared of the pull that day, and i nearly hurt myself on it because subconciously i had already decided i wasn't going to be able to do it. i totally curled my back and came really close to hurting myself (luckily i just let go instead of trying to straighten out). i figured that was it for the day then instead of trying it again.
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