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2006/08/08, 12:41 PM
We have a 7 year old Corgi,she's been with us since she was 8 weeks old.She has always has an attitude problem,she's very dominant and can be snappy(unusual for a Corgi).She does well with my husnband in fact she adores him,but me and the kids...not so much.Any way yesterday my 10 year old daughter was on the floor with her giving her kisses and Jessie(the dog)bit her in the face.It wasn't hard enough to break skin but it did leave welts and there is some light bruising today.My husband believes she should be put down.We have kids in and out of the house all day,he doesn't want to risk a law suit,or God forbid she really takes a bite out of one of our own kids.The solution for now is to keep my own kids away from her and lock her in the bedroom if another kid comes over.She's going for a temperment evaluation which I'm quite sure she'll fail.She has to be muzzled and it takes three vets to hold her down for shots and nail trimming.I have always said if I ever had a dog that bit one of my kids the dog would be gone in a heart beat....but as snappy as Jessie is we love her dearly.Right now we are are the fence as to what to do...so I thought I'd put this out there for opinions.
Oh...I should add...she is in heat,just started yesterday.So being in pain could have been an issue,but my husband feels regardless..if she feels it's OK to bite we have a problem.
Thanks!!
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2006/08/08, 12:45 PM
THat is the reason why. Being inheat can trigger aggression. IF you are not breeding her why is she not "fixed". Most dogs even the best behaved will snap at a kid. I would try to find a home for her rather than just going out and ending her life. there are many people that would resuce her from that....
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/08/08, 01:31 PM
You could use its body to beat someone over the head with.
I have a chihuahua that can be snippy - always has. I also have a 6 yr old daughter that did get bit in the face. She was of course messing with her (trying to put a belt over her neck like a leash). My suggestin would be to tell everyone to not put their face in the dogs face. No offense but putting it down should be a last resort. Try a dog school to see if they can give you some tips and if the is not enough, go with mutts suggestion of trying to find someone to take it
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2006/08/08, 02:24 PM
atiger......I'm not supposed to be laughing at a time like this!!!But that made me spew my water on the key board!!!:big_smile:You're terrible!!:laugh:
back to my problem...yes I think putting her down was a knee jerk reaction...if nothing else I have located a Corgi rescue that will take her.As far as getting her fixed,she's an indoor dog so I never thought about it...my fault if she stays I will make her an appointment.As far as the school...she's been...even been to a doggy therapist because of her attitude.She's VERY smart..she knows I won't punish her for bad behavior and she has no respect for me,my husband always handles her so it has never been a problem before.But what about the premis that once she bites...that's it,she will forever bite when she doesn't like whats going on around her???When she was a puppy and we took her to the therapist he said she should be put down if we couldn't get her under control(that's how bad she was)but we worked and worked with her and got her under a manageable control.Now I need to get around the once a biter always a biter issue.Even though her biting may be completely my fault for allowing her to be dominant and not having her fixed...is keeping her worth endangering my kids??
OR...I'm making a mountain out of a mole hill????
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2006/08/08, 09:07 PM
Wow, sounds like a video replay. Don't put the dog down!
I have an 8 year old Black lab, (pictured here on the left)named Jessie. She bit my daughter in the face when we first got her from a dog pound around 7 1/2 years ago. My daughter required 8 stitches around the lip and right cheek. This happened on a xmas eve and not much I could have done with the dog until the holidays were over. I drove around Montreal to all the clubs and pet shops I knew but no one would take her as she was to big to keep in cage at a pet shop. I took her for an evaluation and was told I have a great dog but should take her for obedience training. After the training the dogs temperment changed over time and I have the best dog I ever owned. She was speyed at the time of the incident. I was told it is from in security before we had her. This dog would not hurt anyone today.
The point here is, don't put the dog down or give her away, have her evaluated from somone recomended by your vet. Also, do mention this to your vet.
Good luck.
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Scales are for dead weight: We are not dead yet!
Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
Montreal Canada
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2006/08/09, 10:34 AM
So it sounds like although she went to the behaviorist you also needed to attend :)...She knows she rules over you and you do nothing to stop it. A corgi rescue is a good idea. I will give you this advice for the future though....I have worked for over 10 years now as a vet tech and one of the most common reason dogs are put down are behavior issues. Puppy training is essential and isn't just for the dog...it is for the whole family. From day one you must be in charge. Praise and reward only good behaviors not bad....do not give in to the dog (ie trimming nails and dog screaming like it is being murdered....you know you aren't hurting it so perservere....once the dog calms down you let them go and give them big praises...not before) It frustrates me to pieces when people bring out of control dogs in and when you are doing stuff to the screaming dog the owners are having a panic attack thinking you are killing their baby.....It wouldn't have got to this extreme had they stepped in and been the boss from day one.
Another thing....if you aren't going to breed your dog spay/castrate it.....there is a high risk of cancers in unneutered pets (the more heats a female goes through the higher risk of mammary tumours....not to mention of course ovarian cancers....and for the males prostate and testicular tumours)
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2006/08/09, 11:18 AM
Thanks lonegirl....I really do feel terrible now about not having her spayed...my only consideration for the spay was getting pregnant and I knew that wouldn't happen so I never did it.She has an appointment now!!!We are going to keep her...she had her temperment eval and she failed as I knew she would.She'll sit there and allow you to pet her..but when it comes to her personal space forget it,checking her teeth ,ears,rolling over to look at her belly...forget it!!!She doesn't cry...she bites and spits and acts like a devil dog.And yes..the vet says I am alot of her problem.I was attacked by a Saint Bernard as a girl and I am afraid of being bitten...she knows I am afraid and takes advantage of it.The kids and I are low in the pack the only one above her is my husband.Someone said in an earlier pst that a corgi is a small dog so not much danger...she is short,but shes 45 pounds of muscle,a very strong dog!At any rate we are BACK in training with her and she has an appontment to be spayed...thank you all for your advice it has been very helpful!!!
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2006/08/09, 04:18 PM
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Quoting from KC_72:
Even though her biting may be completely my fault for allowing her to be dominant and not having her fixed...is keeping her worth endangering my kids??
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BINGO!!! ....May be my fault? ...... I'm sorry to say but YES, it is your fault! What you guys need is PEOPLE TRAINING! It's not your dogs fault for behaving badly, no dog is born bad or dangerous. It's all in the hands of the owners. YOU have to establish yourself as the alpha and set rules to follow. She needs to know her place in the pack. IT'S NEVER TO LATE to change behavior problems, NEVER. Have any of you ever watched the dog whisperer? We have used his techniques and they work like a charm. The man is incredible. Please don't blaim your dog or give up on her!!!!!!!! To many people take the easy way out. You'll be suprised how little it'll take to correct the problem just by your family making some changes and understanding what your dog needs. Check out the dog whisperer books!!! I hope I didn't sound mean, but things like this really get me going......
:)
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"One Ring to rule them all; One Ring to find them; One Ring to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them." -LOTR Trilogy
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2006/08/09, 04:38 PM
Yep - have to agree but your fault. You have to let the dog know that you are in charge. If not, they will snap at you. it should be alot easieer with a small dog. My Chihuahua (named Bimbo by the way - my wife worries when she and the dog are in the yard and I yell "come here, Bimbo) rarely snaps at me but will do it alot more with my wife. Bimbo knows that my wife is more timid and I will not put up with it. Bimbo is actually closer to me and I think that I let her know who is in charge is the reason
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2006/08/09, 04:43 PM
Oh, and one more thing.
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Quoting from ogono:
I dont know if they do this but I think some where in the USA aggressive dogs canine teeth are cut down, and the dogs bite wont do any damage. From that point the dog loses its only form of attack and wont be aggresive as its bite cant do any damage.
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This is horrible!!! Besides the only way the dog bite couldn't do any harm is if they were to pull all theeth, even cut down teeth can do a lot of harm. This also wouldn't stop the dog from being agressive. The teeth aren't making the dog agressive and I doubt the dog would think "oh I better not start a fight since my teeth have been cut down and won't do any harm." .........Where on earth did you hear this?
:surprised:
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"One Ring to rule them all; One Ring to find them; One Ring to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them." -LOTR Trilogy
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2006/08/09, 05:46 PM
Ok OK ...I get it...I got it before!!It's me me and me being the problem!!!I do thank you all very much for the advice.Like I said we(me and Jessie)are going to training,and I have an appointment to have her spayed.But if you remember the problem was not that she bit me...she bit my daughter who was trying to give her affection.My daughter is a VERY kind hearted soul who has never been mean to the dog.I was in the room I saw her on the floor calling her name and kissing her on the head and Jessie bit her in the face out of nowhere.So I still debate...regardless of the reason a dog has the temperment it does is it safe to keep a dog around children after it has bitten??My only mistake(well besides the spaying:()was that I do not discipline her.Well I do I send her to her kennel if she snaps or won't listen,but I have never put my hands on her because I am afraid of being bitten.I have another dog I adopted about 8 months ago,she's a lab border collie mix,this dog has NO aggression!!! So Manny to say that the only reason my dog jessie shows aggression is because of the way I have handled her is a little off base.I have raised them both since they were babies ashley my lab mix is still a baby(with no manners)and she inspires absolutely no fear in me.But Jessie at 10 weeks old terrified me because of her aggression,and we spent alot of money and time working with her through the years.This was surprising to me that she would bite my daughter who has done nothing but love her and take her for walks and slip her treats under the table.I completely respect your opinion,but I believe that it is at least somewhat off to say that I ,as her owner,am the sole reason she has the attitude she has.And I still debate...knowing that she is an aggressive dog...is it safe to have her around mine,or anybody elses children??Would you feel differently if she were a pitbull or a rhottweiller(sp?) instead of a corgi???I'm just posing this for debate..we love Jessie and are willing to do what we have to to keep her AND the kids safe.
And atiger....where did you come up with "bimbo" for a name???You all may have the neighbors talking if they hear you calling "bimbo" and the only thing they can see is your wife!!:big_smile:
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2006/08/09, 06:05 PM
I bought my chihuahua, Bimbo, for my wife then girlfriend almost 15 yrs ago. My only stip is that she had to name it a dog type name. No offense to anyone but i think that a dog should not have a name that a human could have. i always gets to me when someone has a dog named Joe. Bimbo is different, not a human name and I bet that you never heard it before.
as for your question would we feel different if the dog was a pitbull or the such. Yes. In that case the dog can kill someone. Your dog is little so a bite will be minimal compared to a large dog. Take a small bit of newspaper and roll it up. use it slightly on the dog when it acts up. Now I am not saying beat the snot out of it just in case someone thinks I am saying that. Keep that newspaper around and the dog will become afraid of it (if you use your hand, it will become afraid of you) - when he acts up even slightly pull out the newspaper.
Also, when my dog got snippy, i have gone at her with a glove on . She bit it but when I did not react and pull my hand away, she quit biting it and licked it. i kept doing that over and over until she thought that biting would not work on me. just a few hints then again my dog is has an attitude but she is a girl.
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2006/08/09, 06:20 PM
My dog is a girl too,and I'm the opposite,I don't like names like spot or shadow I like real names.And yes I've also heard bimbo...but not directed at me!!My husbands best friend will call me a floozy on occasion but never a bimbo!:big_smile:And jessie is a big dog.She is small in stature but she weighs 45 pounds and she is incredibly strong!!She has VERY large teeth,they are very compareable to my lab mixes teeth.To look at her she may seem small,but in reality she is a good size dog with short legs.I laugh at myself imagining smacking jessie with a newspaper...she'll look at me like I lost my mind!!I see she has much more respect ,and adoration for that matter,because my husband lets her know who's boss.And we're going to work on it.I'll have to let you knbow if the newspaper works out...and no worries out there...I don't plan on "beating the snot out of her"!!!
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2006/08/09, 11:35 PM
KC, I'm sorry if I came on to strong, like I said I do tend to get all worked up over things like this. I'm happy to hear that you guys will go to training sessions, that may help, but in edition I would check out Cesar Millan. I've been watching the Dog Whisperer for years now and I'm reading his books. This man has turned 100's of agressive killer dogs (pitbulls, rotties, german shepherds, and many other breeds) into sweet, calm, submissive pets and therefore saved them from certain death. His techniques are incredible and anyone can use them. Just try and catch his show. It's on the National Geographic Channel. The fact that your 2nd dog is not agressive is great, but Jessie's problem can only be solved by changes you and your family need to make within yourselfs. Jessie's problem is something that developed over many years and it may happen to your new puppy. I know it's difficult to except and understand. Just watch Cesar Millan (dog whisperer) or get one of his books. It sounds to me that throughout Jessie's life she's received affection when her mind was not in a calm submissive state, which means you gave her affection when she was anxious, upset, in the beginning stage of agression. We look at it as loving our pets and comforting them. My husband and I have learned that there is a right and a wrong time to do that. Givin her affection when her mind is not calm submissive will let her know it's OK to feel that way and over time it will get worse. One thing we all need to understand, dogs do NOT think like people and people decipline will not work on them. :)
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"One Ring to rule them all; One Ring to find them; One Ring to bring them all, and in the Darkness bind them." -LOTR Trilogy
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2006/08/10, 09:03 AM
OK manny i'll watch for it..in fact I believe I have seen him on several occasions but I'll pay closer attention.Has for taking out her teeth...no worries there!!Her teeth will remain intact!:)
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2006/08/16, 09:01 AM
Hey KC -
I think it is important that you be the training partner for your dog. Also, until she shows some respect you have to be the sole provider for her. Only you will provide her food, only you will give her access to the outdoors, only you will praise her or give her treats. Nothing is free any longer for jesse. She has to earn anything she wants. Before you feed her, spit in her food and mix it around - this establishes that you have eaten before her, thus you rank higher. Before you give her the food, make her sit calmy. Or, don't even use regular feedings. Dole out her nromal food as treats for training sessions. Create an atmosphere where you are in control. Food is a big motivator.
Don't allow her to enetr or exit before you do. make her sit while you walk through the door and then allow her to enter or exit. Bring her out on a leash and stop when she pulls. As soon a she lets up tension, parise her, even give her a treat then walk until she pulls. repeat the stop and praise.
If you want a good ebook on taking charge of an aggressive or dominant book check dogproblem.com, I have found his book and suggestions worth the price.
Another thign - your daughter needs to know that dogs view being kissed on the head or having someone come close to or encircling their head as aggresive and dominating. Dogs are not people, they interpret things differently. Tell your daughter that any affection towards the dog should happen with your daughter petting the dog from the side, not approaching from straight above or around her head. But, for now make the dog earn affection, as well. No attention or affection unles she sits calmyly and is pleasant. Your daighter may want to keep some treats in her pocket and use them to make Jesse sit, then pet her or give her a treat. this is all stuff that should be covered in doggie clas, as well.
You have got to get over your fear, as you said, dogs sense it and use it to bully you. Be forceful, lower your voice and lean forward when you adress the dog.
Just my 2 cents.
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You don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by staying there.
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2006/08/16, 09:12 AM
WOW...I just got that from the trainer!!!About my daughter and her head being to close to her,I would have never considered that aggresive.We started training...so far AWFUL!!!She DOES NOT like me being the boss.She was mad...now she is depressed...wants nothing to do with me.Doesn't want to get in the car to go to the training.So far it is terrible,no fun for her or me,but we're working on it.Thanks for the 2 cents!!
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2006/08/16, 09:18 AM
Of course she is hating it and sulking. When she gets hungry, she will come around. Don't baby her or try to jolly her, let her sulk and firmly establish that it won't get her anything. This will work out.
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You don't drown by falling in the water. You drown by staying there.
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2006/08/16, 11:54 AM
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Quoting from atiger:
I bought my chihuahua, Bimbo, =============
:laugh:
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For as a man thinketh in his heart, so he is.
Proverbs 23:7
Bill
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2006/08/16, 11:54 AM
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Quoting from atiger:
I bought my chihuahua, Bimbo, =============
:laugh:
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For as a man thinketh in his heart, so he is.
Proverbs 23:7
Bill
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2006/08/16, 01:28 PM
Now you see....bill get's why having a dog named bimbo is funny!!!
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