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2007/04/19, 07:49 AM
I hate to say this...Nadine I agree and support the right for citizens to bear arms....just as much as we have the right for free speech......but do we really want folks that made Paris Hilton and Brittnay Spears famous like they are the right to have a gun on campus? I feel bad for the families that lost loved ones, my heart breaks for them....but why are we so fast to attack and demonize this kid.....I grew up as dravekz put it "The kid was an average book-reading nerd who got the occasional beating and ridicule from his peers". SO I have an idea of what this kid went thru. I know what it is like to live each day knowing that you are going to get kicked, spit upon, hair pulled, boogers thrown at you, beat up, riducled......it does something to a person. That does not make it right to do what he did far from it.
That said allowing Guns to be carried is not an answer but an appeasement. Hell College kids do not clean their own rooms!!!!!!!!!! How in the world do you think it is ok to let them carry guns....No offense to reddy and Nadine, but I think most of those that want that are stuck in a action film....fact is most likely if even one kid had a gun more would be dead......
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Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2007/04/19, 06:36 AM
Drave, I have to disagree with statement of "There's nothing anyone could do, if so, it would have been done". It wasn't a case of "locking him up" but listening to the concerns from the lecturers on the students' behaviour and perhaps monitoring him would have "helped".
However, after saying that I do think that with someone of that mindset it was only a matter of time.
The one part of this that does anger me is that he had 2 HOURS from his first killings to make recordings etc, post them to be aired on television AND THEN murder a further 30 people. That is the travesty.
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If in doubt K.I.S.S.
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2007/04/18, 11:01 PM
Oh please... All the "what if" or "we should've done this" is stupid talk. There's nothing anyone could do, if so, it would've been done. If we locked up every individual for "signs", everyone would be in prison for suspicion at some point or another. Also if that was the case, Ritalin stock would be at an all-time high and I'd be a millionaire. All the hype and baloney on the news, its pathetic. Do you realize the kid was shot and killed by a police officer and they staged it on the news as a SUICIDE? I've got friends that were there... I know the stories... The Media is 50/50 when it comes to truth. It's one of those "Don't believe everything you hear" stories. The kid was an average book-reading nerd who got the occasional beating and ridicule from his peers. So, using his creative mindset, he bought a pistol and did what he thought was necessary to deal with the situation. Think about all the times you've put someone down or turned your back on them...NOW! Imagine those words were live ammunition. Life imprisonment for you, buddy! Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200! Wow! What an effective system we would have. I'M NOT SAYING WHAT HE DID WAS RIGHT(<< thats for short-minded morons who cant take in the entire picture.) I'm saying, maybe in his mind, the end justified the means. Sympathies for the families but on the bright side... "One man's death is another man's gain." Look at all the people it brought light too... Maybe that was God's intentions? I guess we will never know till we get there, huh. People live, People Die. Poor VT! 9-11 who? Oh Poor VT! Vietnam what? Waaahh for VT. Just pathetic. :cool:
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2007/04/16, 03:54 PM
Things like this make my heart ache. My prayers are out to those in the community as well as them and their family members. When is this madness going to stop?
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BLACKSBURG, Va. - A gunman opened fire in a dormitory and a classroom at a college in Virginia on Monday, killing at least 30 people in the deadliest campus shooting in U.S. history. The gunman also was killed, and at least 22 other people were injured.
?Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions,? said Charles Steger, president of Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University in Blacksburg, in southwest Virginia. ?The university is shocked and indeed horrified.?
The shootings spread panic and confusion at the college, which is popularly known as Virginia Tech. Witnesses reporting students jumping out the windows of a classroom building to escape the gunfire.
Authorities said the gunman was dead after he shot more than 50 people at two locations on campus. Thirty-one, including the gunman, were confirmed dead, NBC News reported.
At least 22 others were being treated at Montgomery Regional Hospital in Blacksburg and Lewis-Gale Medical Center in Salem, the hospitals said. Six of the victims were in surgery, and five were reported in stable condition. The conditions of the 17 others was not immediately reported.
The name of the gunman was not released. It was not immediately clear whether he shot himself or was killed by police.
The man did not appear to be shooting at random, NBC News? Pete Williams reported, quoting federal law enforcement officials. He appeared to have specifically targeted the two locations, a co-ed dormitory and a classroom housing engineering and business classes.
Law enforcement officials said the gunman carried two weapons, a 9-mm pistol and a 22-caliber handgun, Williams reported. They said gunman chained the doors of the classroom building so his potential victims could not escape and police could not enter.
Richard Kolko in Washington, a spokesman for the FBI in Washington, said there was no immediate evidence to suggest it was a terrorist attack, ?but all avenues will be explored.?
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Bettia
"Minds are like parachutes; they work best when open." - Lord Thomas Dewar
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2007/04/16, 06:24 PM
I know it's a cultural difference which makes it hard for me to understand, but surely there must be an argument for making guns harder to get hold of?
It's terribly sad when something like this happens, and I can't put into words how distressing it is.
The world is a messed up place sometimes.
My thoughts to anyone this affects.
Jon
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2007/04/16, 07:39 PM
When will it ever end?
My prayers and thought our with the families.
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Patience, persistence and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success.
Ivan
Montreal Canada (City of Festivals)
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2007/04/16, 08:05 PM
My nephew goes there. He said the scene is beyond any words he could use. My prayers go out the the families.
Jon... its not gun control thats needed.The kid probably needed his arse beat back in line but thats not pc anymore. God fordid we teach our kids right from wrong anymore. Guns were easier to get years ago but these things didnt happen. Why not? Well because Bobby and Sally got the belt when they did something wrong and they had to pay the consequences of their actions. Today there are no consequences.
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/17, 06:55 PM
So true...what ever happened to my Dad's belt? It worked!
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Patience, persistence and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success.
Ivan
Montreal Canada (City of Festivals)
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2007/04/17, 07:10 PM
Apparently the warning signs were there. He was a quiet kid. Not so sure a belt would have done the trick on this particular case.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/18, 11:53 AM
Tim... he was not having to pay the consequences for his abnormal behavior. Heck the teachers were AFRAID of him, but because it's now ok to act nuts the teachers HAD to be involved with him. When I was in school, not all that long ago I graduated HS in 1990, if someone had acted like he did prior to this he would have been expelled. But not in todays "oh he is just different" society. Kid should have been kicked out of school a long time ago but oh no cant do that someone will call raceism... rant off.
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/18, 12:01 PM
Don't get me wrong. I don't condone what he did, and I too agree consequences are far from a kids mind these days. But, to me, if someone is going to do this, they are going to do this no matter what.
I feel (and I'm no psychologist), but this seems to me to be a behaviour that can't be changed with discipline. Had he been expelled for the stalking and the fire-starting, he may have just done what he did sooner.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/18, 12:06 PM
Oh.. and I also think teachers need to be able and allowed to have more control in the classroom. And parents should take more responsibility for their children.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/18, 01:22 PM
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Quoting from jonshez:
I know it's a cultural difference which makes it hard for me to understand, but surely there must be an argument for making guns harder to get hold of?
I have to disagree - how many lives would had been saved if someone else had a gun & shot this guy sooner. Instead no one could fight back. If you try to get people to turn in their guns - the bad people won't & guess who will be doing all of the shooting.
I grew up with deer hunter - if someone tried this at my school, you could count on someone firing back. & hunters know how to hit what they are aiming at.
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Reddy
All people smile in the same language
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2007/04/18, 02:49 PM
AMEN REDDY!!!!! People may not realize but allowing CCWs on campus was just turned down at VA Tech. I KNOW that had I been a student there and the guy came into my class he would not have made it to the next class. Gun control is hitting your target.
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/18, 06:02 PM
I don't want to appear uncaring here, but if I may use an example away from guns.
I used to keep tropical fish. One time we had a very aggressive fish nipping and attacking all my pretty fish. Someone suggested I try putting another aggressive fish in there to "keep it in it's place". A month later I had two aggressive fish and nothing else.
Isn't there a danger (and I concede my view is narrowed by my experience) that by putting more guns into the mix you are adding to the danger? Surely the answer would be to deal with the problem, not the symptom.
Something made this guy dangerous, guns just add to how dangerous.
I'm not trying to take a moral higher ground here, or claiming to know the answer. I come from a place where owning a gun is the exception so my view is coloured by my experience. It just seems that giving everyone a gun is the same (in terms of this situation) as no one having a gun (the problem is minimised). So that being the case, why not go for the option with the fewest downsides?
I hope my ignorance doesn't offend or make me look unfeeling on this subject, I'm just offering my view.
Jon
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2007/04/19, 11:31 AM
The day that everyone took GOD out of the schools is the day they let everything else in!
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2007/04/19, 11:33 AM
Guns dont make people agressive. Either they are agressive or they are not agressive. So Jon what you did was to put 2 bullies in a tank... not solve the problem my getting rid of the original issue. You simply put 2 problems together.
It is NOT east to get a ccw and you cant get one unless you are 21, in my county it is 30 yrs old, so the majority of the kids would not have even been able to get a CCW. I have a CCW and had to pass a background check and the Sheriff, head law enforcement has to sign off on a ccw per Federal Law, had to sign off on my permit. The thing is that if you have ANYTHING in your background that shows agressiveness or any type of addiction or any psychosis you will not be given a CCW. Now what about the HS shooting where you could not have a gun within 1000 ft of the school. The principle had to park 2 blocks away and walk to school because he kept a gun in his car. When an armed kid came in the Principle went off campus got his gun and the kid SURRENDERED when faced by the principle. Most of these people are wusses and when stood up to will back down or simply want police assisted suicide. Now mind you I lost a brother, August 15 1997, to Police Assisted Suicide. So I have seen both sides. These people only want to die themselves. I felt worse for the cop, who happens to be a good friend of mine, then I did for my bother who shot at several people including my friend who has frags in his hand. I saw what the officers went thru here being second guessed by everyone and I had to stand up and say that we held no fault towards the police.
Mutt I also was the nerd. I scored 16 pts short of perfect on my SAT in the 7th grade and was accepted into college after 8th grade. I was the tall skinny nerd rich kid with 1/2 my head shaved. Was I picked on heck yeah! But I didnt turn out to be some psychotic killer.(outside of deer, turkey and hogs!) People have a choice when they go thru that crap... let it beat them down or smile and know that it's just because the other kids are jealous. I know I make more money than 90% of kids I went to school with and I know I am in better shape than 99% of them. So dont give me that poor me crap oh I got picked on. I was picked on too and I know I am a good, and HEAVILY ARMED, person. We own over 50 guns total between long guns and hand guns. Does that make me a psychotic killer or agressive? NOPE! So why does everyone cry Hero Hero when a citizen steps in on situations like this and kills the guy? Cant have it both ways.
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/19, 11:44 AM
I hear ya nadine really....not saying there is an answer.....just a lot of what is going on in the news and all with this is a reaction to loss not acutal thought.....
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Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2007/04/19, 12:04 PM
Criminal checks, background checks... whatever... a bad guy will get his hands on a gun if he wants to.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/19, 12:08 PM
He was not a bad guy per se and his guns were all registaresd legal so how is that going to be fixed? There is no answer.....none at all expect to get rid of all the guns people and send them to the bottom of the sea before some fools comes round here and shoots either you or me.
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Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2007/04/19, 12:12 PM
This I know, Mutt... I'm just saying you can do all the background checks you want... register guns up the wazoo and everything humanly possible to make it so only legit people get guns, but a bad guy/criminal isn't gonna go through that. Why would they?
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/19, 12:14 PM
I hear ya Tim my point is while some legit folks may care for the gun and be safe the ave citizen willnot. I for one do not want a 18yr old KID toting a legit or non legit gun period.....
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Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2007/04/19, 12:15 PM
Just cause you have the 'right to bare arms' doesn't mean we all should.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/19, 12:18 PM
Bad guys are going to get the guns - I just want some good guys having them too. As it is, one bad person with a gun can kill alot of people but would he try it if he knew once he started someone else was going to get him before he hurt so many.
It seems to me that going into a school & start killing people is the new "in" thing if you are going to kill yourself(that is how they have all ended) There has to be a way to stop these idiots but to them it seems like a way to get back at the people who have hurt them.
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2007/04/19, 12:58 PM
An 18 yr old cant carry a hand gun! They are only allowed to use long guns. A ccw would not change that. No offense but ignorance of gun laws is 1/2 the reason why gun grabbers say what they do. There is not a chance in H**L that anyone is going to send my guns to the bottom of the sea. I have a right to bare and to hunt. I hunt for food, not saying I dont enjoy hunting, AND most of my hunting is done with a Bow outside of bird hunting.
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Quoting from 7707mutt:
I hear ya Tim my point is while some legit folks may care for the gun and be safe the ave citizen willnot. I for one do not want a 18yr old KID toting a legit or non legit gun period.....
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/19, 01:09 PM
Well, it would seem gun controls don't work and neither does the Constitutional right.
At this point there doesn't seem to be any answer.
In my opinion, I don't think letting the majority of American citizens to walk around and 'bare arms' is the correct thing to do either, despite what the Amendment says. There's enough shooting going on and allowing people to strap a six shooter at their side isn't going to make it any less.
Perhaps it's time to amend the amendment.
My two cents.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/19, 02:19 PM
I personally do not own a gun for shooting (own my fathers rifle that he had given to him by his dad but have never shot it) but have an opinion. The guns are a slight problem but not nearly the main one. What people have said earlier about people not being accountable through out their lives is a BIg problem. A few years ago when kid got in trouble at school parents came to the school asking what did their kid do. Now they come there asking what did they do to my kid. Parents do not take responsiblity of raising their kids and the schools have had their leverage removed by having meaningful punishment taken out of the schools.
If he did not have a gun, he would have gotten something such as an explosive.
Back to about guns, the old saying goes that if guns were outlawed, only outlaws would have guns. I bet that alot of the crimes that involve guns now, happen with guns that are illegally obtained
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2007/04/20, 12:26 PM
Ok.. so what about the Bath School Disaser? Not to down play what happened in VA but this is NOT the worst mass killing at a school. 45 people were killed and 58 injured during bath house. If we are to make things that go boom hard to get.. none of yall will have clean clothes (bleach) or cars with trannys. (trans fluid) Wait what about powdered coffeemate? Good lord do you guys know what happens when a truck with that stuff is anywhere near flames? Do you realize what kind of explosion you can make with things you have in your house right now? If not with a gun ... more would have been killed with a bomb. These people will kill no matter what. GUNS ARE NOT THE PROBLEM!
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/20, 12:33 PM
Powered coffeemate - I have not thought about that in years. It will burn fast under a slight flame. Back in the day, I was showing a friend how it burned. Well, lets just say that more than I expected got to the flame and I had about an 8 ft ball of fire in front of me with my head placed on the edge of it. After diving back out of the fire, I saw that my hair, eyebrows and eyelashes were all grey. Lost about .5 inch of hair on my head. Those were the days.
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2007/04/20, 12:47 PM
Weapons are a problem.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/20, 01:20 PM
Weapons are not a problem. Not being held accountable for actions is the problem. The libral way people are treated when they do wrong is the problem.
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/20, 01:29 PM
This guy was going to do what he do, no matter what. Yes, not being held accountable is a problem, but that card can only be played so far.
Some of these incidents have been done by people who may not have ever had a reason to be flagged and watched, so you can't blame lack of accountability. If they have no 'priors' how can they be held accountable? Perhaps this guy has been now.
I'm sorry, but you cannot convince me a nation of armed citizens is going to be any safer or reduce the amount of deaths.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/20, 01:30 PM
Whoops... typo "this guy was going to do what he did"...
t
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/20, 01:36 PM
Everyone has the right to bare arms (except maybe women in Iraq), here we have the right to bear arms. Thank you.
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2007/04/20, 01:44 PM
Yes, but that Amendment is about 200 years old, when the nation was young.
I'm sure there are many ways one can read it and spin it in their favour, yea or nay for guns and weapons. It's all how it's interepreted.
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/conlaw/beararms.htm
I'm not for or against gun control. Either method isn't working. In Canada, where we have a form of it, it isn't working. In the U.S., where I don't believe there is a national form of it, it isn't working either.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
- One should not lift like a man or a woman, lift like a human.
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2007/04/20, 02:19 PM
Held accountable for his/her actions from birth, not only from "priors"alot of the reason people are the way they are now.
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My Catahoula did it.
I saw a book titled \"Sex for Dummies\" and wondered why
anyone would teach dumb people how to reproduce?
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2007/04/20, 02:23 PM
I find it interesting that the two views (personal responsibility and gun control) seem to be an either/or proposition.
Is there not a case to be made for combining the two to reach a solution?
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2007/04/21, 11:31 AM
First off, women carry weapons in Iraq. If you are in Iraq you are required to carry a weapon. I should know, I am sitting over here right now.
I dont have answers to this madness that is going on at VT, but I do believe that the media is a big part of the problem. This story will be front page and lead story for months. All that will do is glorify what this idiot did. Which in my mind is excatly what he wants.
When I think about the situation all I can feel is anger. I have no answers, I have no suggestions. All I can think is that I hope he burns in hell.
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Quoting from msmogreen:
Everyone has the right to bare arms (except maybe women in Iraq), here we have the right to bear arms. Thank you.
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2007/04/22, 05:29 AM
I think the 'bare arms' comment was a humourous comment regarding some muslim attitudes to women's dress.
Ah you probably knew that, and now I ruined it by explaining it.
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Quoting from hecdarec:
First off, women carry weapons in Iraq. If you are in Iraq you are required to carry a weapon. I should know, I am sitting over here right now.
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2007/04/22, 07:20 AM
Over here in the UK we don't have the right to bare arms and gun crime is far and few between.
But as stated earlier, these people, with or without guns will find a way to harm others.
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If in doubt K.I.S.S.
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2007/04/24, 12:42 AM
Yes, thank you. Actually, is was mostly an anal ex-English major correcting usage of the term 'bare arms' vs. 'bear arms' and yes, I was suggesting that maybe not everywhere in the world does one have the right to have bare arms. That's all...I was not intending to participate in the debate at all. Sorry if I caused any confusion.
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Quoting from jonshez:
I think the 'bare arms' comment was a humourous comment regarding some muslim attitudes to women's dress.
Ah you probably knew that, and now I ruined it by explaining it.
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2007/04/24, 06:49 AM
You don't have to apologize Msmo...he probably just didn't catch it. He's under a lot of stress over there, especially right now as his unit has experienced their first casualties.
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A morning without coffee is like something without something else.
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2007/04/24, 07:42 AM
Sorry to hear that Dfly....
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Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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