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2003/02/19, 06:26 PM
An insulin spike is supposed to give you max muscle cell expansion correct... Then would it not make scense to spike it prior to a workout to aid in muscle gain? And try to keep it down after words to assist with the fat burning process.
Curious as to your thoughts.
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2003/02/19, 08:43 PM
It would seem that way, but its not true. If you spike your insulin before training, you'll feel run-down and tired. Check out the following article. It was just emailed to me literally a few minutes ago. It'll answer your question in better detail....
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Best Pre and Post Training Carbohydrates Sources
by Robert Brooks
Carbohydrates remain one of the most misunderstood macronutrients in nutrition. Low carb diets have become so popular in the mainstream that bodybuilders and fitness enthusiasts are starting to second-guess the merits of a high carbohydrate diet! Rest assured folks; low carb diets are completely in-effective for building muscle mass, and in most cases, will actually slow down the metabolic rate (the total calories you burn each day)! Since there is so much confusion regarding carbohydrates and what they do for the bodybuilder, let's review a brief nutrition lesson:
Carbohydrates Do Build Muscle.
Obviously, carbohydrates provide calories and a positive caloric balance (eating more calories than you are burning each day) is a must for building mass (muscle size.) Secondly, carbs increase the production of a muscle-building hormone called insulin. Insulin helps drive protein into muscles for growth and repair. Bottom line; carbs are essential for growth.
That said, there are some differences among carbohydrates foods. Natural, or unrefined carbohydrates tend to digest and breakdown slowly in the body. Examples include oatmeal, cream of rye cereal, yams, red potatoes (not white!), buckwheat noodles, buckwheat pancakes, bananas, apples, and yogurt.
Refined carbohydrates are those that are usually not available in nature. Meaning; there is some type of food manufacturing process or processing that occurs in order to make most refined carbohydrates. Examples include mashed potatoes, white rice, white bread, rice cakes, bagels, jams, jelly, and low fat bakery products such as low fat muffins, low fat cakes, low fat cookies and low fat pop tarts. Surprisingly, for many, these latter foods actually have found a place in their nutritional regimen!
When to Eat Unrefined vs. Refined Carbs
Natural, or unrefined carbohydrates break down into glucose - the most basic source of energy found in all carbohydrates - at a much slower pace than refined carbohydrates. This slow digesting characteristic makes them the ideal pre-training choice of carbohydrate. Slow digesting carbs linger in the blood and are burned as fuel while you train. The benefit: natural carbs provide a steady stream of glucose, and this steady stream spares or prevents the body from tapping deep into its reserves of glycogen (the body's reserve source of carbohydrates located within muscles.)
Greater muscles glycogen stores are associated with greater muscle growth and increases in body weight. Another benefit of natural carbs is their effect on insulin. Gram for gram, natural carbs cause a smaller increase in insulin levels than refined carbohydrates. For example, 50 grams of carbs derived from a yam (a natural carb) will create a smaller increase in insulin than 50 grams of carbs coming from mashed potatoes (a refined carb).
Bodybuilding workouts cause an increase in growth hormone (GH) levels during the actual training session and GH helps repair muscle and burn body fat. However, an insulin surge created from eating refined carbohydrates interferes with the maximum GH output during training.
Therefore to maximize training induced GH release, opt for natural or refined carbs in the pre-training meal. (Note: Those of you who are ingesting popular supplements containing dextrose, be aware that your GH release is being compromised!) Natural carbs fuel your body, keeping glycogen levels full, and facilitate the GH response by creating a more modified or "controlled" insulin spike.
One of the quickest and best pre-training meals; cook up some slow burning carbs like a bowl of oatmeal or a bowl of cream of rye cereal, add a scoop of whey protein, a couple packets of Equal or Splenda sweetener and mix. For the super busy athlete, mix a protein shake and toast 2-3 slices of rye bread - the slowest digesting bread available. Sprinkle some cinnamon and Equal on the toast and you have a complete mini-meal, protein and slow digesting carbs.
Refined Carbohydrates induce a greater insulin surge, making them the ideal Post-training source of carbohydrates. That is, when you finish training, eat some fat free muffins, bagels, or even some fruit juice. That's because refined carbs shoot insulin levels through the roof and elevated insulin levels in the meal immediately following training can reverse muscle breakdown (created by training) and trigger the body to immediately switch from a catabolic state into a highly anabolic state.
As a rule of thumb, aim for .7 grams of carbohydrate per pound of body weight in the post training meal and include some refined carbohydrates at that meal. For example, a 200lb. athlete would consume .7 x 200 = 140 grams of carbs immediately after training.
A complete meal consisting of a serving of complex carbs along with 30-40 grams of high quality protein should follow thirty minutes later.
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--JBennett
"I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!"
"Pain is only weakness leaving the body."
"Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
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2003/02/19, 08:45 PM
There are some that advocate spiking insulin upon rising, then using what they term a "bracketing" method also, both before and after. Some homework may be in order here for you. To check things out for yourself, visit www.ast-ss.com. Read the article the "anabolic timing factor". This is but one theory, the one I mentioned. If you follow Jeff Willet's diary, you will see he first thing in the morning eats Frosted Flakes with their whey protein. So, there is your homework assignment!! LOL...
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/02/19, 08:50 PM
You know something, before my 1.5h badminton play the other day I decided to work my abs, obliqes and back. 20min at most. Just because I was not going to do a big workout and no cardio, thought it would be ok. By the time my 1.5h was up I was beat. usually I have no problem doing 2h. And I know for sure I did not strain my self on my LIGHT work out.
So I can belive that the insulin spike could run one down. Unless I ran out of enerty for not enuf fuel in me... But thanks for both your post. I am gona start using water for the creatine use from now on.
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2003/02/20, 12:24 AM
at the bottom of that artical however, it says postwork out to have a refined carb. to help boost insulin. which is basically going back to what i said in my initial post is it not?
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2003/02/24, 01:29 PM
Muscle is not built during a workout. Muscle is built during recovery.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/02/24, 03:23 PM
yes, however the insulin spike will halt fat burning too would it not?
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2003/02/26, 04:51 PM
Probably. That's something that was debated on this site recently. The way I see it (I theorize it, I suppose), insulin shuttles nutrients to you muscles preferentially. Insulin shuttles away nutrients, that much is a fact. It can be a double-edged sword. If all the nutritionists that have been advocating PWO dextrose are correct, insulin gives preference to rebuilding muscle tissue before taking blood sugar to adipose (fat) tissue. However, that quick replenishment of your body's energy would seem to put the brakes on your calorie deficit and therefore fat loss. So to answer your question . . . I'm really not sure. That does sound like it's right, though.
As for your previous post - did you take a PWO shake after 20 min. ab work? If so, why?
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/02/27, 06:00 PM
hey mackfactor: thanks for the reply. No my original post was asking if taking creatine "after" myworkout would halt fat burning.
My typical workout involves a protein shake before or after, depending on what I have had to eat before I workout. And also take cratine 30min before my workout also. I was reading here thou by taking creatine with water was best. which I now do. But using grape juice will spike insulin thus causing me to not burn fat after my workout.
i weight 210lbs, 5'11. not really looking at droping down to 180lbs etc. want to be 210, but lean, with little fat. to have a more toned look and fit look.
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2003/02/28, 02:59 PM
Oh, I see.
In all honesty, you don't need the simple carbs with creatine, chances are you respond just fine without the 'transport mechanism.' Is it working fine for you with just the water?
Good luck with your training.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/02/28, 05:17 PM
Macfactor: I think the water is workin, I am on my second week. I feel good next day after workouts, arms appear a bit bigger. Could be due to my training thou. :-) Figure I will evaluate it after 6wks see how it goes. Plus seem to dry out more. So my water intake has for sure gone up. so i would be lead to belive it works.
I also will put my creatine in my pre-workout protein drink. don't know if its advised, but iv been doing that recently.
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