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2007/09/11, 01:15 PM
Just as a prelude I wanted to mention the fact that my ultimate goal is to look like one of the 300 Spartans from the movie. I'm 5'11" and I used to be 280lbs. I've gone down to 244lbs and I'm trying to learn as much as I can about my body and the ways to get to my goal.
Is a low carb diet really that bad. I'm getting scared now. I'm on the South Beach Diet and I've recently put more whole wheat back into my diet. My goal was to lose weight build muscle and hopefully raise my metabolic rate, so that I can eat anything I want. What do you think?
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Maintaining my mind, body and soul takes me closer to the Source. Clarity is power.
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2007/09/11, 02:00 PM
Who said it was bad, and how bad is "that bad"?
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Quoting from blackaztec3000:
Is a low carb diet really that bad.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/09/11, 02:02 PM
What is the point of dieting at all if you want to get to where you can "eat whatever you want"?
If you get lean enough to look like one of those guys you will never be able to eat whatever you want if you want to remain that lean.
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2007/09/13, 02:01 PM
I'm just saying...I know that my eating habits are now permanetely changed, but I'm talking about having a little treat from time to time without guilt. The carb thing was on the bulletin about getting a six pack. Check it out.
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Maintaining my mind, body and soul takes me closer to the Source. Clarity is power.
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2007/09/13, 02:36 PM
Aztec... basically if you are on a low carb diet to get a "six pack" then you go back to eating a normal diet you typically wont keep your six pack because of the water gain that typically comes with adding carbs back in.
ecle has it right this is not a stop gap thing... it's a lifestyle that has to be maintained.
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Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.---Helen Keller
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2007/09/13, 03:13 PM
Looking like one of those guys will be tough, most of them trained 8-10 hours 5-6 days a week for 4 months while eating a specifically tailored diet... I wish I had that kind of time!
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This is SPARTA!!!
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2007/09/13, 11:27 PM
Nadine, water weight doesn't cover up your abdominals. In fact, if the only reason you are lackadaisical about trying a low carb diet is because you are afraid of weight gain, you should try to understand that just because your weight fluctuates due to water and glycogen balance, doesn't mean you'll get fat as soon as you drop off it.
Atkins had it right, believe it or not. He was a bit extreme and needed some tweaking, but this whole country could do with cutting some carbs.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/09/14, 08:41 AM
Water weight is all over the body and how much and where well that all depends on the person. Some people who are more carb sesative will bloat(retain water) easier. The majority of people, at least in the area I live, eat massive amounts of carbs. Hence the when you go back to a "normal" diet you will gain both weight and bloat(water gain). What the abs article states is not to go on a very low carb diet, but to find what is sensible for your individual body.
And yet Steve water retention will infact cover your abdominals.
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Quoting from wrestler125:
Nadine, water weight doesn't cover up your abdominals. In fact, if the only reason you are lackadaisical about trying a low carb diet is because you are afraid of weight gain, you should try to understand that just because your weight fluctuates due to water and glycogen balance, doesn't mean you'll get fat as soon as you drop off it.
Atkins had it right, believe it or not. He was a bit extreme and needed some tweaking, but this whole country could do with cutting some carbs.
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2007/09/14, 02:11 PM
Any water lost while on a low carb diet is due to the deplenishment of glycogen stores (2/3 of glycogen is water), which are INSIDE the muscle. Bodybuilders have perfected this into a science, so that they can come in looking "full" and still be very well defined. This is another thing entirely, which I have never done, and will not pretend to have.
You also just proved my point. You stated that the people in your area eat massive amounts of carbs, and then gain weight when they return to massive amounts of carbs. This seems logical to me. The answer seems obvious, to reduce the amount of carbohydrates you take in. If a "normal" diet made you fat in the first place, why would you return to it?
The fact is, most americans "normally" take in way to many carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are the only macro-nutrient you can live completely without. Instead, in this country, carbohydrate intake has gotten so out of control, that we have taken an adult onset disease, and given it to children (type II diabetes) and the only thing we did was change the name.
Also, I'm not sure you understand the term carb sensitivity. A carb sensitive individual should be even more disposed towards attempting a carb reduced diet, because of the way their body responds (through insulin excretion) to a high blood glucose level.
I think now it just comes down to making various distinctions between "low carb" diets. I view a low carb diet as anything that involves a significantly lower carbohydrate intake than what you are getting right now. I'm not big on numbers, but I've found 100g to be manageable. Very low carb diets are typically defined as less than 50g. I am still not against this, as long as one makes sure they cycle to replenish their glycogen stores (regular refeed days, every 3-5 days). However, where things get a bad rap, is once people start eliminating vegetables, or try for ketogenic diets. Ketogenic diets are another topic entirely, but...
when people start eliminating vegetables and fruits as a part of their low carb diet, this is when you can question whether these individuals have done their research. I can promise you, bar none, all else being equal, someone who eats 5 servings of fruits and veggies a day will be healthier than someone that doesn't. When you start eliminating celery and lettuce is when your diet goes from low carb to stupid. I doubt eating too much lettuce is what has caused this country to end up predominantly obese.
Everyone is keen to say they are doing atkins, or another similar low carb diet, but how many of you here have actually read his book? Try not to jump on the bandwagon either way (overreaction or underreaction) before you are sure about what you are getting into.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/09/14, 02:26 PM
I've read the book and agree with Wrestler. But I find all training diets require work to adhere to them. Also one size doesn't fit all people or situations. The Adkins diet book stresses that you have to adjust carb intake to a training lifestyle and everybody's needs are different.
If you truly want the "300" look or the Brad Pitt look from that Spartan movie be prepared to be unhappy if you like to eat "normal food. If you want the food to have any taste, be prepared to spend months looking for recipes that you can choke down. I was able to get my abs to show 3 or 4 years ago but I wanted to kill myself and everybody in the world by the time they popped through. Not worth living like that to me.
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From aboard MV The Shop
Johns Island
Charlie
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2007/09/14, 02:36 PM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
Any water lost while on a low carb diet is due to the deplenishment of glycogen stores (2/3 of glycogen is water), which are INSIDE the muscle. Bodybuilders have perfected this into a science, so that they can come in looking "full" and still be very well defined. This is another thing entirely, which I have never done, and will not pretend to have.
You also just proved my point. You stated that the people in your area eat massive amounts of carbs, and then gain weight when they return to massive amounts of carbs. This seems logical to me. The answer seems obvious, to reduce the amount of carbohydrates you take in. If a "normal" diet made you fat in the first place, why would you return to it?
The fact is, most americans "normally" take in way to many carbohydrates. Carbohydrates are the only macro-nutrient you can live completely without. Instead, in this country, carbohydrate intake has gotten so out of control, that we have taken an adult onset disease, and given it to children (type II diabetes) and the only thing we did was change the name.
Also, I'm not sure you understand the term carb sensitivity. A carb sensitive individual should be even more disposed towards attempting a carb reduced diet, because of the way their body responds (through insulin excretion) to a high blood glucose level.
I think now it just comes down to making various distinctions between "low carb" diets. I view a low carb diet as anything that involves a significantly lower carbohydrate intake than what you are getting right now. I'm not big on numbers, but I've found 100g to be manageable. Very low carb diets are typically defined as less than 50g. I am still not against this, as long as one makes sure they cycle to replenish their glycogen stores (regular refeed days, every 3-5 days). However, where things get a bad rap, is once people start eliminating vegetables, or try for ketogenic diets. Ketogenic diets are another topic entirely, but...
when people start eliminating vegetables and fruits as a part of their low carb diet, this is when you can question whether these individuals have done their research. I can promise you, bar none, all else being equal, someone who eats 5 servings of fruits and veggies a day will be healthier than someone that doesn't. When you start eliminating celery and lettuce is when your diet goes from low carb to stupid. I doubt eating too much lettuce is what has caused this country to end up predominantly obese.
Everyone is keen to say they are doing atkins, or another similar low carb diet, but how many of you here have actually read his book? Try not to jump on the bandwagon either way (overreaction or underreaction) before you are sure about what you are getting into.
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Your post just agreed with my first post on this topic. My ref to returning to a "normal diet" was because he said he wanted to " eat anything I want".
Maybe you need to step back and read what someone is actually saying before you say they are wrong.
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Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.---Helen Keller
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2007/09/14, 02:40 PM
Also.. if you re-read my post where I talk about people being carb sesitive.. you will see I was saying these people get heavier when they return to their higher carb diets.. hence a lower carb one being better for them. I understand carb sensitivity VERY well.
So try actually understanding what someone is saying before you call them wrong then repeat their point.
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Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.---Helen Keller
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2007/09/14, 02:45 PM
I think you guys are saying about the same thing. Wrestler just likes to talk/type more. BA, as you can see, nothing about diet is simple until you properly and thoroughly educate yourself. Spend a while in the diet forum and experiment. You'll get there if it's really worth it to you.
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From aboard MV The Shop
Johns Island
Charlie
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2007/09/14, 09:13 PM
I didn't say that the part about returning to a normal diet was wrong. I said that water gain won't cover muscle, and that low carb dieting isn't right or wrong based on a number on the scale.
My original question was who said a low carb diet was "bad", and what do they mean is bad. I'm not trying to be confrontational, only to find out what the original poster was referring to, since I've used a low carb or carb cycling approach with many people with great success.
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/09/16, 12:39 PM
Thanks a lot guys. Nothing inspires me more. I think it is worth it to me. And with the South Beach, I get to eat "good" carbs occasionally. That's plenty. But I would like to know if I'm going for the 300 look should I not be eating whole wheat? It's funny...all of the sites about 300 just say how often they trained, that they were on some sort of diet, and that crazy endurance tests they did. I haven't found a source that reveals their exercise regiments or specific diets. That sucks!!! I want to do what they did in 4 months over a years span. Not like this is my main motivation, but my weddings on Sept. 13th '08. So I have a few days under. Thanks again yall!
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Maintaining my mind, body and soul takes me closer to the Source. Clarity is power.
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2007/09/18, 10:01 PM
low carb diet is baaaad news for me..and even carb cycling for an extended period of time can set me back....my bodytype needs carbs regularly to keep me fueled...it doesnt mean however that I can eat as much of it as i want, nor does it mean i can just eat any type of complex carb...and simply carbs i have to be even more careful of...fibrous carbs i can eat all day long if i want to...
its so important you find out your body type, what your trigger foods are and adjust accordingly...like it has been stated many times already, no *cookie cutter* diet is gonna work for everybody...
best of luck!!!!
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I am proof there isnt a *set point* :D
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2007/09/18, 10:56 PM
Read this post, reread it, and reevaluate your goals.
http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/pro/Message.jsp?f_ix=1&t_ix=3029
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/09/18, 11:21 PM
hmmm..doesnt let me go to the link..is it under a pro section only?
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I am proof there isnt a *set point* :D
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2007/09/18, 11:22 PM
oops..answered my own question..it is...seeing the word *pro* in the link... :(
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I am proof there isnt a *set point* :D
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2007/09/18, 11:54 PM
BA, I gather you're a fairly new lifter based on what you put in your profile. I had lifted for a long time before I found this place and learned to do it right. In addition to that the resources are here to learn how to eat and rest properly. I guess what I'm saying is try to take the time to learn it all and make it a lifestyle. Weight training is hard as far as sticking to it. Watch the board January 1st. There will be 250 people online here 24/7. By <March 1st it will be back to normal.
I hate to see relative newbys get bogged down in something like a hollywood training program or diet expecting the same results obtained by people who have trained all their lives. It strains you physically and psychically.
Try an FT weight beginner loss and strength building program. Work it through from start to finish. Then do it again through intermediate and advanced. That's about 4 months with a weeks rest periods. During the 4 months learn what foods contain complex carbs, good fats, and high protein. Learn to keep rigid counts of your calories.
Then try the mass building exercise program combined with your newfound diet practices. By the time you've done this you're at seven months. You'll know how to set up your own workouts and manage your eating habits. You'll also be better off to judge the diet and exercise program you need to look like one of those 300 guys.
One of the guys I learned a lot from was Jdelts on this board. Look him up. He used to tell me "shut up and lift"...he was right. I lifted but I never shut up 'cause I liked to piss him off but thats another story. So I'll say lift and ask questions but be fair with yourself the way you go after your goals. Good luck.
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From aboard MV The Shop
Johns Island
Charlie
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2007/09/19, 07:03 PM
http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/pro/Message.jsp?f_ix=1&t_ix=3029
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SQUAT MORE ~Jesse Marunde
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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