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2008/09/07, 05:53 PM
Ok, Really this is a two part question.
Part 1: My Overall LEG Day Routine....
As Some of you know, I am using a 3 day routine from this site which is the 8-week Tone and Weight Loss. I am fairly happy with the results and workouts for the Upper Body Days. However, on Leg Day I do the following 3 exercises.
1: Seated Leg Extensions 4sets 20-16-14-12Reps
2: Seated Leg Curls 4sets 20-16-14-12Reps
3: Calf Raises (seated or Standing) 4sets-20-20-15-15Reps
Overall, I don't really like to do any of those, therefore, I am looking for something to replace the entire LEG DAY. I think I will Start doing Squats instead of the Leg Extensions, but What about the other 2 exercises?
Part 2:
Squat Form???
As mentioned in the Title, I actually did some squats today, and I am definetly a lightweight, but I knew that. :) Technically, I did machine squats (In the Smith Machine), but it's a start.
Where should my feet be in relation to the Bar? Also, Should my back Bend, or should it stay perpendicular to the floor throughout my entire range of motion.
Also, My back is a little sore, Should it be, or do you think my Form was really bad causing this?
And My last Squat question for now, Should my feet be pointed straight in front of me, or angled out slightly?
I really want to get my form correct before making the move to a real squat in the cage and not on the Smith.
For those who want to know, here is how it went.
4sets
45#x12 (Just the Bar)
45#x10 (Bar+10#each Side)
65#x10
65#x8
Any help/advice appreciated.
Cliff
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2008/09/07, 06:18 PM
I can't think of anything that could directly replace calf raises.
Leg curls could be replaced with Straight Leg Deadlifts or Hyperextensions.
As for squat form, this link is as simple as it gets: http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBFullSquat.html, but for such a basic exercise as sitting and standing, you could go on for hours. I suggest reading Starting Strength for a good discussion on the squat.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
Fat loss isn?t under the control of the magic fat loss fairies. - Alwyn Cosgrove
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2008/09/07, 06:28 PM
Here's another.. with video..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyjpz4jkjSQ
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
Fat loss isn?t under the control of the magic fat loss fairies. - Alwyn Cosgrove
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2008/09/07, 10:27 PM
Thanks Tim..
From what I have been reading tonight, Foot Position is not super critical as long as they are inline with the knees.
While I agree sitting and standing is a pretty basic movement/exercise. It's not every day that I would try to do this with weights on my back, or without pushing up with my arms. :)
I'm still somewhat confused though..
From exrx.net, the Smith Squats are shown with a straight back. However, the Video example you recommended shows standard barbell squats and the back is slightly bent. I guess this is just a difference in the type of Squats.
Thanks,
Cliff
Are you the same TimD who is a Mod at exrx.net Forums???
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2008/09/07, 10:33 PM
HMMM, I will have to give the Straight LEg Deadlifts a try.
Thanks Again,
Cliff
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Quoting from TimDay:
I can't think of anything that could directly replace calf raises.
Leg curls could be replaced with Straight Leg Deadlifts or Hyperextensions.
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2008/09/08, 10:02 AM
Honestly, move to the squat rack and do bodyweight squats or just the bar to learn the form. I think that you could learn more bad form with the smith than it's worth.
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2008/09/08, 01:41 PM
You could be right, but how can the Smith teach me bad Form?
I am admittedly a Beginner, but what I see the Smith Doing is keeping me moving UP and Down, while reducing the Side to Side and Front to Back movements. In essence acting as a Stabilizer. Is the Smith actually doing something else??
As Mentioned before, the Basic Movements of the Squat are simple. However, I am trying to make sure I do the "Exercise" Properly, because I do not want to injure myself.
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Quoting from ecle5c:
Honestly, move to the squat rack and do bodyweight squats or just the bar to learn the form. I think that you could learn more bad form with the smith than it's worth.
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Thanks,
Cliff
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2008/09/08, 01:45 PM
Many people feel the smith is evil.... It has it's place.. but I agree with ecle5c... move to the rack and do bodyweight or bar squats..
Nope... not the same TimD.
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
Fat loss isn?t under the control of the magic fat loss fairies. - Alwyn Cosgrove
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2008/09/08, 03:23 PM
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Quoting from wilburburns:
You could be right, but how can the Smith teach me bad Form?
what I see the Smith Doing is keeping me moving UP and Down, while reducing the Side to Side and Front to Back movements. In essence acting as a Stabilizer.
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You answered the question right there - you aren't learning to use your own stabilizers when you use the smith, not to mention that it locks you into a range of motion that may not be natural for your biomechanics and it allows you to lean on the bar where you cannot in real squats..a host of things that will mean totally relearning the squat when you get away from the smith.
I do think there are uses for it, but learning real squats ain't one of them.
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A man of sense is never discouraged by difficulties; he redoubles his industry and his diligence, he perseveres and infallibly prevails at last.
Lord Chesterfield
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2008/09/08, 03:24 PM
You can lean on the bar in back squats... once. :)
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
Fat loss isn?t under the control of the magic fat loss fairies. - Alwyn Cosgrove
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2008/09/08, 03:53 PM
Good enough..... I can understand those reasons.. :)
Slightly off Topic: What do you all consider a good use for the smith?
In all reality, Squats are the only thing I have even tried in that particular machine... I will likely try my standing calf raises there though, unless you all say that is bad also. :) I have been doing them on a specific Standing Calf Raise Machine similar to this one..
http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Gastrocnemius/SLStandingCalfRaise.html
Thanks,
Cliff
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2008/09/08, 03:55 PM
For me its a good place to hang my towel.
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Quoting from wilburburns:
Slightly off Topic: What do you all consider a good use for the smith?
Thanks,
Cliff
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2008/09/08, 03:56 PM
I like the smith for...front squats, well, they aren't really front squats because the bar is still behind you, but you place your feet way out front and lean on the bar, this hits your quads/glutes differently.
Sometimes I use it for benching but again - there is that unnnatural arc and no stablizers...
and we use it for military presses but i would prefer the reg bb.
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A man of sense is never discouraged by difficulties; he redoubles his industry and his diligence, he perseveres and infallibly prevails at last.
Lord Chesterfield
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2008/09/08, 05:04 PM
If you can get the bar high enough, chins.. reverse push ups...
http://tinyurl.com/6pcdho
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I see the words you are typing, but all I read is *click*click*click*
Fat loss isn?t under the control of the magic fat loss fairies. - Alwyn Cosgrove
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2008/09/08, 06:20 PM
damn and i love the smith machine
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2008/09/09, 09:34 AM
Thanks everyone for the advice....
NOW, at this point, I will say that Squats of some type will stay in my routine. The DOMS are really killing me yesterday and even worse today. This tells me that the Workout was harder than I have had in a while for my Legs. This is Good, but the Steps here at the office are pretty rough to deal with today (my office on the second Floor, but I'm always running downstairs for something).
Cliff
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2008/09/09, 11:17 AM
LOL good job ;)
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A man of sense is never discouraged by difficulties; he redoubles his industry and his diligence, he perseveres and infallibly prevails at last.
Lord Chesterfield
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2008/09/09, 03:03 PM
just did my squats today ( took 2 months off because of severely sprained ankle) and my legs feel like jello. Tomorrow is going to be worse for the both of us
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2008/09/14, 10:10 PM
OK, This was week 2 for Squats... Did't use the Smith this time.. Even less weight this week, because I seemed to really have problems with my Form. I seem to want to lift more with my right leg, which throws the balance off for the Bar.
Additionally, I did the Hyperextensions as recommended by TimDay. I'm not sure if I did them wrong (Don't think I did), but I truly felt this more in the Lower Back than the Legs and Gluts. Is this Normal?
What Set and Rep Ranges would everyone recommend. Keeping in mind that my overall workout and goal has been set for Tone and Fat Loss, which basically has me doing higher rep ranges and 4 sets and short rest (<60sec)?
Squats...
Reps ? /Sets ?
Hyperextensions
Reps ? / Sets ?
OR Straight Leg Deadlifts
Reps ? / Sets ?
Todays Routine looked like this...
Squats
WeightxReps
BWx10
45x10
45x6
45x7
Hyperextensions
WeightxReps
BWx15
BWx15
BWx15
BWx15
Seated Calf Raises
WeightxReps
25x20
35x16
35x14
35x12
Cliff
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2008/09/15, 07:10 AM
Personally I like to do the following:
Squats-2-4 warm up sets ( I am old and need them you may not)
Working sets-4 or more ( this depends on what I am doing heavier sets I tend to do more overall sets)
SLDL(Stiff legged Deadlifts)3-4 sets
Deadlifts 3-6 sets (again depends on if I am going light or not)
Front squats or leg presses 3-5 sets
Of course this is one of many different combos you can do.....I like to split the legs day up to a quad focused one then do a hamstring focused one. My goals are not to really get bigger legs( I have large ones already), but to get stronger.
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FOR MY WIFE:
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but it was all that i could afford
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2008/09/15, 12:40 PM
Thanks Mutt,
How many Reps for Each Set. It is my understanding that for strength, I should stay in the low (3-5) rep range, while gaining Size/Mass, I should do 5-10 Reps.
However, the Routine (Which is from this Site) has all of my other exercises in the 10-20 Rep Range. 20 Reps Decreasing to 10 for the Last Set. This seems to be working for my upper Body, I don't think this would be good for the Lower Body though, but I could be wrong.
Cliff
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