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How come ... ?

TiredRob Posts: 42 Joined: 2002/04/04	2002/05/14, 06:34 AM Hi, I'm now nearing the tail end of my first (8 week) mass program, which I've enjoyed doing, and plan to possibly repeat after a week or so's rest at the end.. Something accured to me recently: I've read quite a lot of info that says in order to gain mass, use heavy weights and low reps - I gather around 8 rep sets are the order of the day. So, how come my mass build program has me starting most sets with around 20 reps, and others with 15 ? Don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining, since this is all new to me anyway and must be doing me no end of good, no matter how many reps I'm completing - It's just that the program doesn't actually follow the amount of reps I'd expect it to, given that it's a mass-build one. Did I miss the point somewhere ? Cheers, Rob.
ltroisi Posts: 764 Joined: 2001/11/06	2002/05/14, 06:37 AM Yes the first set is a warm-up set....preparing the muscle for those heavy sets. This is a key factor that many people miss. I have done it both ways. All sets heavy vs the above. I prefer the warm -up set routine! -------------- Be Impressed, Not Impressive.... Leslie
TiredRob Posts: 42 Joined: 2002/04/04	2002/05/14, 08:02 AM Thanks for the reply ltroisi.. So, does that mean I should drop the weight down on my first (warmup) set so I can load more onto the 2nd 3rd and 4th sets then ? Until now I've been doing each set including the first with about as much weight as I think I can handle for the given reps An example could be, set 1 20 reps @ 10kg set 1 15 reps @ 12kg set 1 12 reps @ 14kg set 1 10 reps @ 16kg Should I say, drop the weight in the first set in the example to maybe 6 kg so I could then attack the remaining 3 sets with heavier weights then, or continue as I am ? Thanks again. Good to have you guys and gals here with the knowledge :) Rob.
fireloard Posts: 665 Joined: 2001/03/27	2002/05/14, 10:31 AM If you can do 10kg @ 20 reps then leave it where it is.. and for the mass program set 2/3/4 look kind of high.. I think the reps should be closer to 8, 6 and 4.. what exercise is that..
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/14, 10:32 AM There are times I cannot do all 20 reps. on the first set. This is especially true if I start out with heavier weights. I therefore, make up for it by either going heavier or doing more than the recommended number of reps. on the following sets. Hope this helps... -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/14, 12:26 PM I had a real hard time with this at first. I figured to use really light weights (down to 5 lbs on some) for warm ups, and I really tack on the weight in the last sets. I usually try to get enough weight on that I reach almost failure at about 8 reps. That's just me though. -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
TiredRob Posts: 42 Joined: 2002/04/04	2002/05/14, 01:13 PM "I think the reps should be closer to 8, 6 and 4.. what exercise is that.." Well yeah, that's sorta what I'd expected at the start, hence the question - Really, it's mostly ALL my excersises that are asking for similar reps - 4 sets, starting with 20 or maybe 15, and going down to a minimum of 10 for the 4th set. Maybe something didn't go quite right when I started ? Still, I'm on week 6 of 8, so I'll being a new one soon enough anyway... Rob.
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/14, 01:22 PM That's just the way ft works certain muscle groups I noticed. There are certain muscle groups (calves, forearms, neck) that need to be worked well into the burn to make any progress. I believe that these are slow twitch (type 1) muscles that need to be worked that way. -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
Philia2 Posts: 4,078 Joined: 2001/10/19	2002/05/15, 01:30 AM Very good point Cains. Also I'll give you all a small advice when you work your legs: Our legs are mainly build up by slow muscle fibres soooooo the very best way to touch these fibres is simply to work along with them and give them the needed number of reps to get stimulated. Now, if you always take extremely heavy and few reps when doing your squats, AND wondering why you just cannot seem to grow those sticky legs, well then try taking a little lighter and more reps. The same thing for the calves. BUT of course the very best results you'll get by changing your way of working out ever now and then. -------------- - Nina :o) La vie est toujours aussi belle.....
TiredRob Posts: 42 Joined: 2002/04/04	2002/05/15, 05:21 AM Ok, here's a pretty typical example, from this weeks routine that I have lined up for tomorrow; chest Incline Dumbell Flyes 20 chest Incline Dumbell Flyes 15 chest Incline Dumbell Flyes 12 chest Incline Dumbell Flyes 10 chest Dumbell Flat Bench Presses 16 chest Dumbell Flat Bench Presses 14 chest Dumbell Flat Bench Presses 12 chest Dumbell Flat Bench Presses 10 triceps Lying Triceps Extensions 20 triceps Lying Triceps Extensions 16 triceps Lying Triceps Extensions 14 triceps Lying Triceps Extensions 12 triceps Dips Behind the Back 20 triceps Dips Behind the Back 14 triceps Dips Behind the Back 12 triceps Dips Behind the Back 10 Bearing in mind that this is a gain muscle mass program - I think it sounds more like a general tone than a muscle build routine. Should I have expected less reps on each set or am I becoming paranoid ? Really I just want to be more sure so I can verify that my next program will be what I'm looking for when I begin it. Thanks again for your time, you guys are all very helpful! Sorry for the long post. Rob.
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/15, 10:29 AM Hmmm...some of these exercises should be around 12, 8, 6, 4. Was this your entire schedule printed out of ft for tomorrow? And was this under the 12-week mass program? -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/15, 12:41 PM This is what I was talking about a few weeks ago... -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/15, 12:58 PM I think the 12-week mass program starts out with more reps. and builds into lower reps. down the road. I'm not really sure as I've always signed up for the 8-week program with a 5-day training split. -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/15, 01:07 PM Don't get me wrong, I love the program, but for me personally I'd just like to understand the mentality behind it. I like to understand peoples philosophy behind building. I understand the first set being high for simple warm up purposes, but why are the last few sets still hitting 10-12? -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
ischjli Posts: 408 Joined: 2002/03/13	2002/05/15, 01:43 PM I too have been wondering about this. Why is it that when working the same muscle group in back to back exercises that you need a second set beginning with 16-20 reps? For instance, DB incline press and BB flat bench press both start with first sets of 16 reps in the 8th week of my 8 week mass program. I understand warming up for the very first exercise, but after an exhaustive 4 sets do you need to do another first set with 16 reps on the next chest exercise? I often feel like hitting the heavier weight immediately and not in need of another warm-up...
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/15, 01:47 PM Actually, I don't do 4 sets of 1 exercise before moving on to the next. So, if I have 2 exercises that calls for 16 reps., I'll do those first. -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
ischjli Posts: 408 Joined: 2002/03/13	2002/05/15, 02:09 PM Interesting Rpacheco. Aren't you doing the 8 week mass program too? How is yours broken down? If I follow my program it has me doing 4 sets per exercise (and I like it), before moving to the next. At least, that is how I interpret it. So, are you saying you do 16 BB bench reps, then 16 incline DB reps, then back to BB bench? Or on a BI/TRI Day, bunce between 20 tri extensions, 15 bb curls, then 15 close grip tri presses, then 20 cable curls??? I am not following you.
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/15, 02:41 PM I am following the 8-week mass program. As an example, let's say my program for today is: Incline barbell bench press (16, 8, 6, 4) Flat dumbbell bench press (16, 8, 6, 4) Straight arm pullovers (20, 10, 10) I would first work on my weakest body part (let's say upper chest for example). So, I'll do the first set of incline barbell bench. The next exercise set will then be either the straight arm pullovers or flat dumbbell bench. I usually will end up on my weakest bodypart, last. Understand? -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
TiredRob Posts: 42 Joined: 2002/04/04	2002/05/15, 05:11 PM Hi again all, I'm following the 8 week mass build program, not 12 week (the beginners one basically). The sets I posted up are indeed for tomorrow (I train 3 days a week), but represent the way all my excersises have gone.. I've never had any sub 10-rep sets at all - They all go down to about 10 reps minimum on the 4th set.. At least it seems it's not just me after all though ! Rob.
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/15, 05:30 PM Supacheco, do you see on your program ever a set that's 20-16-14-12, or 20-14-12-10? -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/15, 05:33 PM Yes...I get those when I do shoulders (Lateral and Front Raises). I also get 3 sets of certain exercises (T-Bar Rows and Straight Arm Pullovers) that consists of 12-10-10. -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/15, 05:35 PM Yeah, I've seen that too. I did mostly notice that the shoulder exercises were high reps. Are those mostly comprised of slow twitch fibers? -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/15, 05:39 PM Well, shoulders are a fairly large muscle group. And actually, I'm starting to see my lats improving... -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/15, 05:52 PM That's great! But you didn't answer my question! -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2002/05/15, 05:58 PM No, they comprise of both. The only exercises with high reps. that I get are the lateral and front raises. Everything else (push presses, military presses, etc.) is pretty normal (12-8-6-4). -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
Boddhisattvha Posts: 1,226 Joined: 2002/03/07	2002/05/15, 05:59 PM Okay then that is different. All my shoulder exercises are high reps. Barbell Rows, Side lat raises, etc. -------------- And my soul must be iron, because my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless.
Lumina20 Posts: 966 Joined: 2001/10/31	2002/05/15, 07:48 PM I'm on the lose wieght/toning program, and the reps sound just like TiredRobs; I'm also curious as to why that is...I just know George or Adrian is going to chime in any moment now... I hope -------------- http://etrata.home.attbi.com/flash/banana.swf
TiredRob Posts: 42 Joined: 2002/04/04	2002/05/16, 06:53 AM "I just know George or Adrian is going to chime in any moment now... " Hehe. Yeah, the more I read, the more it sounds like my program has turned itself into the weight/toning program for reasons of it's own. ;) If nothing else, this thread has been fascinating to get an insight into some of the variations thrown up by all the different members of the group. Do you guys think it would be foolish of me to try the intermediate mass build program (which I presume is the 12 week one mentioned) after I complete my 8th week and take a week or so off btw ? Rob.
fireloard Posts: 665 Joined: 2001/03/27	2002/05/16, 09:57 AM The 12 week mass program is for 'advanced' people but most people that want to try it just set themselves to that anyway.. but if your set on beginner and move yourself up to intermediate then some things about your workout program should change... I think... it just won't let you pick the 12 week mass program until your set to advanced and can use both freeweights and machines.. anyone else change their levels recently?
ischjli Posts: 408 Joined: 2002/03/13	2002/05/16, 11:45 AM Thanks for the clarification Rpacheco. I guess we just do our routines differently, but they are comprised of the same exercises (8 week mass). I have absolutely nothing to complain about as I am experiencing awesome gains, I was merely curious about what seems to be a high number of reps. Thank you.
Lumina20 Posts: 966 Joined: 2001/10/31	2002/05/16, 07:44 PM TiredRob, when I first started using FT programs, I started myself on intermediate, only to find out that was not so intermediate. I've done 2 or 3 beginner programs and now I put myself back on intermediate and I think it's the best thing I've done. I made more gains on the beginner program because I was actually able to do all of the exercises listed. So I guess my point is that there is no need to rush it, but if you felt like the beginner was too easy then go ahead and give the intermediate one a try.
TiredRob Posts: 42 Joined: 2002/04/04	2002/05/17, 03:37 AM Thx for the feedback guys. I have another 2 weeks left on my current program yet, so I have a little time to give it some more thought about what to choose next. I'd like to make sure I have a program with higher weight/lower reps if possible. I think maybe another beginner routine will still be wisest perhaps, but I may change my mind again yet ;) Rob.