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2003/02/06, 12:14 AM
Isopure is good stuff, but it's way over priced. The best regularly priced deal I have found is Optimum Nutrition's 100% Whey Protien which you should be able to find for $25-$30 for a 5 lbs. tub. It's 77 servings of 22 gr. of protien with only 3 gr. of carbs.
After several years of using protein supplements, I have determined that the best protien is the one on sale. I try to keep an eye out for really good deals and then I stock up. As much as I hate GNC's, you can find some rare smoking deals. In all the Chicago GNC's about a year ago, they had their TwinLabs stuff at %75 percent or more off. I loaded up on Mega Whey Fuel protien mix and bought 6 $59 500 gram tubs of TwinLabs Glutamine Fuel for $14 each, which should last me two years. You got to be pretty diligent to catch stuff like that, or just plain lucky.
I like low-carb protien, because it's easy to add carbs just by drinking fruit juice. For example, there is 30 grams of carbs in 8oz. of apple juice.
Don't be fooled by marketing and advertising and whose protien has the most inside. Compare serving sizes and carbs/protien grams on the nutritional lable. I think Isopure boasts 40 grams of protien per serving in thier mix and Twinlabs boasts 44 grams of protien in thier "protein shake in a box" stuff, but if you compare serving size versus protein, it all comes out to be pretty much the same. If you have a 30 gram shake, you can't possibly have more then 28 or so grams of protien in it. Does that make sense here?
One other thing I have learned is that your body can only absorb somewhere between 20-30 grams of protien per serving/meal, so it doesn't make sense to slam down a 44 gram protien beverage. It makes more sense to drink half now, and half later.
I have also "heard" that taking some ginger root can allow absorption of larger amounts of protein, but I have no idea if that is true. I used to read and post regularly at www.fitnessboard.com (Sixpack, where are you man?:)and that's where I heard all of this stuff about protien absorption and I think most of it makes sense. I would welcome anyone elses opinions on this stuff whether you agree or disagree. I think I'll post this under a new heading to get a good discussion going.
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2003/02/07, 12:50 PM
"One other thing I have learned is that your body can only absorb somewhere between 20-30 grams of protien per serving/meal, so it doesn't make sense to slam down a 44 gram protien beverage. It makes more sense to drink half now, and half later."
That's actually not the case.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/02/07, 03:49 PM
Well, tell me why you think so...
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2003/02/07, 04:25 PM
Honestly, I slam down 50 gram protein shakes after my workout and it's fantastic. I usually know when my body has it's share of protein...trips to the bathroom becomes frequent. so I drink a fair amount at crucial points.
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"You only live once, but if you work it right, once is enough."
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2003/02/07, 07:15 PM
Well I take 60 grms post workout, If my body requires less, thats fine, at least I know I'm feeding my muscles, and have expensive urine!
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Nothing is too small to know, and nothing is too big to attempt!
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/02/07, 08:07 PM
Mack....I find your posts to usually be very good, this is one I definitely have to disagree with. This is very old school thinking at best. I would like to know just how you found out "your body can only use twenty to thirty grams of protein at a time? Think of this...Protein is needed by your body for virtually all growth promoting processes. Protein is a "builder" of cells. Protein is the single most abundant substance in your body next to water. Protein is present in every organ in your body. Protein is essential for blood, hormone, and enzyme production. Protein is also essential for optimal immune system function. And, protein is absolutely essential for muscle repair and growth.
Protein is the most essential nutrient for building muscle.
Weight lifting places a considerable increase in demand for protein by your body. And the more muscle you develop the more protein you will need. Muscle tissue is the major dumping site, if you will, for protein. It's like a huge protein reservoir. And when you are supplying insufficient protein your body will steal it from muscle tissue whenever it needs it. Muscle breakdown. Building muscle is the very last thing your body wants to do anyway. So, after it uses all it needs for all other functions, with only twenty to thirty grams, how much will be left for lean tissue building?
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/02/07, 09:02 PM
I'm definitely confused.... I think your reply was aimed toward connolley?
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"You only live once, but if you work it right, once is enough."
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2003/02/07, 10:27 PM
shlon...you are so right, and mack, I owe you an apology. I thought you knew better than that, kind of stunned me when I read it.
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/02/07, 11:41 PM
Exactly, I'm the guy you want to yell at. I definitely do not proclaim to be an expert and I posted for this exact reason. I wanted to get this exact discussion rolling. I wish fitnessboard.com was still up so I could dig out the old discussions about this. Let's all go to work to see what research we can dig up concerning the "how much protien can the body use in one serving issue" I just want to make sure it's worth spending more money. I think we are all concerned with getting value out of our hard earned money....
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2003/02/08, 12:20 AM
http://www.menshealth.com/fitness2/nutr_faq.shtml#4
here's an article that seems to support mackfactor's post by Thomas Incledon, MS, RD, CSCS: Note that he's not an actual MD. But that's still not good enough. I want research done by a real medical institution by real MD's that are not on some supplement company's payroll. I probably spend 5-10 bucks a day on supplements and I don't want to be peeing money away.
Another question I'd like to raise is- must carbs be consumed with the protein for the digestive system to "metabolize" it as a meal? I always try to squeeze 5-6 meals in a day with 4 of "real food" and 2 MRP's. I remember reading that when gunning for big muscle gains, you want your metabolism fired up as high as possible, even to the extent that if you wake up in the middle of the night to pee, you should eat something to intensify this effect.
www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hussman1c.htm is interesting reading for this Dr. Hussman guy at hossman.org. I'll shall save this reading for later as it's about my bedtime, and i need to hammer down one more protein shake and apple juice. HeY! I'll make it a double just to make you guys happy:)
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What time is it? You mean now?
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2003/02/08, 11:39 AM
For pure gaining, I am totally in agreement with your second paragraph. "Calories" are needed for growth, and if this means taking calories throughout the night to meet these demands, then it should be done. I am not however a fan of waking up just to do this. If you wake up anyway, like to pee, then by all means chug down a calorie source containing at least a 50% protein mixture if not more. A good way to do this would be to make up a drink before bed with water(not milk), with lots of ice in it and set it by your bed(nightstand). If you wake, then chug some down. If not, it will still be fine in the morning, just put it in the fridge and use it later in the day. I am not a big fan of the apple juice thing, the insulin response may not be too good, even if you are trying for it, I think it is vastly overrated. Your gains in the end depend on what nutrients you take in over a period of time, day/week/month etc. Sound nutrition practices will detemine your gains.
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/02/09, 01:07 AM
I wasn't going to get into this yet cause I'm sleepy, but I'm glad Mackfactor got on me about the "can't absorb more than 20-30 g of protien per serving thing. After pondering it at work today, I came up with that at six 20-30 gram servings of protein per day, that's only 120-180 grams a day.
Can you guys tell me more about figuring daily protien intake amounts? In another post Mackfactor said he was unsure about the reliability of the website's calculators.
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2003/02/10, 06:23 PM
Looks like I missed all the good discussion!
No prob on the misunderstanding, bb1. I'm glad someone's at least keeping an eye on me. Don't hesitate to call me out if (when? - hopefully not!) I do get something wrong.
The whole thought on the eating in the middle of the night thing stems from the overnight 'fast.' Even overnight, your body is working and expending energy. Basically, the theory goes - "Would you go 8 hours without food during the day? Then you shouldn't overnight either." However, I'm not really sure how great the effect of a meal overnight really is. I think I've seen study results in regards to this, but I really can't remember where or what they said. I'll try to remember and post it if I find it. Personally, I think, when it comes to stuff like that, it's really nickel and dime. It'll probably make a positive difference, but whether it is significant enough to be measurable is a different story. I'd go so far as to say that the disruption in sleep would negatively effect you more than than the overnight meal would positively. Just a thought, though . . .
As far as calorie requirements, I generally stick with the Harris-Benedict formula:
66 + (6.3 x body weight in lbs.) + (12.9 x height in inches) - (6.8 x age in years)
Multiply by activity level:
Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)
Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)
Extr. active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job)
That's for men and I know it's different for women, but don't remember what it is. Add or subtract calories to either bulk or cut. That follows along with my 11-15-19 theory, weight (lbs)x11 = cut, weightx15=maintain, weightx19=bulk, which, though overly simplistic usually works fine.
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"Don't follow leaders and watch your parking meters!"
-- Bob Dylan
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2003/02/10, 07:23 PM
I think a much easier calculation for maintenance calories is the simple fact of fourteen to eighteen calories per lb. of bodyweight. Usually starting about fourteen point five per lb. to start. This is for most everyone. Very simple. Start at 10% less if trying to lose weight, 10% more if trying to gain. In a couple of weeks, if you keep calories identical on a daily basis, you know which way to go for adjustments. And Mack...that is why I never put a quote from someone else in my replies! Never want anyone to think I said it!! LOL...
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/02/11, 03:56 PM
So I'm wasting protein by taking two scoops of Champion Nutrition (23g protein per scoop) since the body can only absorb 20-30g of protein?
What about two 8oz chicken breasts (30g of protein ea).. waste of protein there too?
Please advise.
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2003/02/11, 11:33 PM
http://pub5.ezboard.com/fbetterbodynutrition.showMessage?topicID=26.topic
This sums up all the stuff I read about this topic of how much protein you can absorb in a serving. If anyone finds anything that contradicts 45-55g per serving, please post it.
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2004/03/20, 08:41 PM
bump
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2004/06/28, 12:01 PM
This was real informative I had no idea about this maintenance calories stuff, very interesting.
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2006/01/24, 05:42 PM
bump
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2006/02/18, 02:29 PM
I read every single post and say THANK YOU for all the info..I love this site and the people here are nice..
one question though...why does asimmer post "bump" what does that mean?
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2006/02/18, 02:34 PM
Yeah, looking over this thread again....the protein amount your body can use is such hogwash. Your body will use 1 gr. or 70 gr., whatever it needs.
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Strength and Honor!
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2006/02/18, 02:37 PM
Simply brings the thread back to the top of the pile from the past.
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Seize the day!
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