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2003/11/10, 08:06 PM
It has begun.
What I have been saying for the last 2 years has come to pass. The US Senate is now looking at a bill that would make Andro and other prohormones, as well as any of their derivatives, illegal! This will most likely pass, since it has the backing of Senator Hatch, who was the proponent of keeping supplements non-FDA regulated back in the early 90s. And whom do we have to blame for this quandary?
For years, too many supplement companies have gone about irresponsibly making outlandish claims about Andro and its “steroid-like” gains. This relatively short, but incredibly intense, onslaught of ridiculous before and after photos, ludicrous testimonials, and illegal product labeling, has finally come home to roost. This is the reason why I have begged companies for the last two years to begin enforcing the industry’s self policing mentality of years past, before it was too late. Unfortunately, with only a handful of exceptions, it fell on deaf ears. Am I criticizing the products themselves? No. Much like ephedrine, I believe that many products have a rightful place in a hardcore training regimen. But I am extremely enraged at most of these companies’ advertising and “research” practices. All they have accomplished is the perpetuation of misinformation by the media, and, whether conscious of it or not, they are proponents of the ignorant.
Outlawing these products will deal a huge financial blow to the supplement industry; and, in turn, maybe it will force these less-than-scrupulous companies out of business. But, it’s what will most likely follow this ban that terrifies me. As, I have mentioned in previous threads, if this passes, the FDA will NOT stop at Andro, and you will begin to see other limitations and bans on other products. The short and long term effects will be devastating.
The following is an article from Reuters:
“WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two U.S. senators have introduced legislation to bring substances at the center of an international sports steroid scandal under government control.
The measure adding tetrahydrogestrinone, androstenedione and other steroid precursors to the list of muscle-building steroids listed as Schedule III controlled substances was introduced by Sens. Joseph Biden and Orrin Hatch late on Thursday.
Metabolized by the body into testosterone or other steroids, the precursors, sometimes dubbed "designer" steroids, have been the subject of a recent crackdown by sports authorities around the world.
U.S. track and field chiefs said this week they were weighing lifetime bans even for first-time steroid offenses by American athletes. Athletes could also be fined up to $100,000 if convicted of steroid use, and their coaches could face similar fines.
Four U.S. athletes have been confirmed to have given positive 'A' sample urine tests for the previously unknown tetrahydrogestrinone or THG, together with Britain's leading sprinter, Dwain Chambers (news - external web site). All five are awaiting the results of second, 'B' tests. Chambers has denied willfully taking the drug.
"Products like andro and other pro-steroids are marketed to kids and young athletes as an effective way to increase muscle mass," said Biden, a Delaware Democrat. "However, I have serious concerns about the safety of these substances."
In addition to stunting growth, steroid precursor use can lead to increased blood pressure, elevated risk of heart attack and significant changes to sexual organs, the senators said in a statement.
"I have been extremely frustrated by the lack of regulatory action on these performance-enhancing products," said Hatch, a Utah Republican.”
I hate saying I told you so……..
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Michael
Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!
Chaos, Panic, Disorder.... Yes, my work here is done!
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2003/11/11, 06:16 PM
Freakin' Republicans!....I agree with your outrage Micheal, and I agree that this can perpetuate into something more rediculous than it is. We need more people lobbying against this proposed bill, then worry about how the supplement companies advertise. One thing I would like to see though, is more FDA involvement so we can give these supplements more credibility, and the schmucks in the higher-up can't make B.S. claims when its FDA-backed. Time for us to start writing to our congressman.
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SHUT UP AND GROW!!!
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2003/11/11, 09:42 PM
too bad, if they make andro and other prohormones illegal, It will simply force people who have their minds set on using a an anabolic supplement to resort to more dangerous illegal steriods. These people who want a safer way to add muscle will now be forced to endanger their on health if it passes.
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2003/11/11, 09:49 PM
I guess this kind of answers my question about DHEA, huh? It won't matter because it will be illegal.
They can have my protein powder when they pry it from my cold, dead hands....
But seriously, how can they persecute athletes for taking substances that were yet to be banned? That is nuts. Will they go after creatine next? what about amino acids? Where will they draw the line?
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\"To be able to go to the gym and train hard is a joy and a privelege, even though the hard work necessitates driving yourself through considerable discomfort. Savor this privelege and blessing, and revel in it.\"
Stuart McRobert, Beyond Brawn
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2003/11/11, 10:44 PM
my brother has some andro products so does he get money back or what. The packages are not open yet either but probably past the no return date.
balla <><
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2003/11/12, 10:14 AM
Well, I don't think swat teams with dogs will be busting in anyones houses because they happen to have an unfinished bottle of Mag-10 in their medicine cabinet. And, seriously, like ephedra, people will just stop selling it. I happen to think that it won't be as bad as ya'll are thinking. Like when the terrorist act passed. People though it would be Orwells 1984 book of big brother and,"No free speech". I think that some products make screwed up impossible claims. I also believe that a reputible company like (ON for instance) would be able to defend WHY their product is effective and safe. There is going to be an invisible line that no one will be able to cross; sure cigaretts and alcohol are bad for you and heck, kill you, but are they banned? The fact remains that supplements aren't going to all the sudden become contraban and the "Users" junkies who peddle HMB and Creatine to school kids. Their is a middle ground and I believe that it just won't go that far. Will I take pro-hormones, sure, until they are banned. Will I finish the bottles after the ban is in place, you bet (that stuff is expensive". Will I be lost when I cannot get prohormones anymore; probably not... My 2 canadian cents
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I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
-Philippians 4:13
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2003/11/13, 02:51 AM
Unfortunately, it's not a single party issue: both sides are jumping in on this one. And I don't think that we are going to be seeing any Gestapo-like tactics any time soon, nor do I believe it will be reduced the level of your average crack dealer. But that was not my point. The FDA has been after the supplement industry for about a dozen years; not so much as to standardize it like food products, but to regulate it like the pharmaceutical industry. And that's where the financial assests come in to play. If and when the FDA is successful in regulating the supplement industry like pharmaceuticals, this will not make these products illegal. Rather, it will characterize these supplements similar to a prescription or non-OTC drug. For example, the above mentioned case describes the Senate's demand to turn Andro in to a Schedule III controlled substance (like anabolics), not outlaw possesion entirely. It would ban and make illegal the possesion and use of these products without the direction of a physician. That is what bothers me. This can be carried over to other supplement products.
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Michael
Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!
Chaos, Panic, Disorder.... Yes, my work here is done!
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2003/11/13, 09:24 AM
What we should do is have a Freetrainers March on Washignton!
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LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
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2003/11/13, 09:28 AM
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. However, I do feel (and more than once) taken by the marketing schemes of certain companies. it's not that I'm NOT an informed customer (relative term) it's just that the information being fed to me is not always accurate. I like these forums because it does give me non-biased opinions and information about past experiences with supplements by people (like me) who takl about them. however, by and large most of the people that purchase supplements tend to only hear one side (the manufacturer's) and thus get repeatedly taken. I feel the supplements that are fundamental (creatine, Protein, Glut, etc.) are here to stay. Conversely, NO2, and others I cannot think of any right now, are largely unproven and thus do need to be, if not regulated, studied to test validity in a non-biased lab experiement. If for no other reason, to save people money. I think everyone would agree with me here; but, I see your point, things can sometimes snowball and people can go overboard; but if that means taking certain products off the shelf for testing only to find that they didn't work anyway, then that's fine with me. If then a doctor has to approve say the use of Andro, atleast some 16 yaer old kid that sees his older 25 year old brother taking it, would at least be aware that, A) a dr. probably wouldn't prescribe it and b) if say he did, even to a 25 year old, would be able to inform the person of potential side effects and possibly even be able to give a more stable dosage. However, thinking about this, I wonder how insurance agencies would see this. That is probably the most scary part of a regulation I could forsee, of course even then, if your provider wouldn't pay for it, you would have to purchase it from your own wallet. After reflecting on your comments I can see it as both a potential positive as well as a negative.
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2003/11/13, 09:28 AM
Message deleted by moderator due to unsuitable content for this board.
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2003/11/13, 12:23 PM
Michael, ditto what you said about this being party specific. I don't know much about supplements except I do use protien because eating alone wasn't giving me what I needed. The bottom line in ths country is $$$$$. From what I have read here the more unscrupulous supplement companies make wild claims that are debunked with a little research. The mentality in this country is that we are free to make mindless choices and the government will protect us. We demand new laws to save us from the few outrageous and extreme occurances that are usually rare. The fact of the matter is that in most cases the laws already exist to safeguard the public and simply need to be enforced.
How many serious crimes are plea bargained away because the budget to prosecute criminals simply isn't there. The laws are already on the books to make food /supplement producers put the facts on their lables but the buget isn't there to make it happen. On many products the truth is on the label or ad but the print is so long and small who can or will read it.
In a recent physical, my Dr. told me the problem with supplements is that you can buy 10'000 desicated liver pills and one of them may be somthing other than what is is supposed to be.The laws are already on the books to go after a company that puts estrogen in the testosterone bottle. We don't need more laws. He also said even extra protien can cause some imbalances that were at least worth looking for in blood tests.
If you happen to have a testing lab in your basement you will be fine with supplements was the gist of his concern.
I will continue to use my common sense and brain power to make my own choices.
Drew maybe I misunderstood your comment about insurance companies but why should they be in the business of paying for supplements? Supplements, breast augmentation ,facelifts and tummy tucks are purely an elective decision and not a subject that risk pools should deal with.
Just my 2cents.
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I live in my own little world. But its ok. They know me here.
Charlie
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2003/11/13, 12:44 PM
That was from me, by the way. Hi! To everyone at Freetrainers!
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2003/11/13, 01:13 PM
Well, my comment about the insurance companies were more geared toward coverage. And Yeah, you're right it would be elective, just doctor prescribed, which you would have to foot the bill. I also agree that we dont necessarily need the govt to tell us what is safe. However, I still feel that the public will be better informed if the govt has a hand in it. My reasoning is this: I do not have enough time or money to research and devote to clinical studies and accuracy. I do as much research as I can, ask questions and try and understand what I am putting in my body; but hey even with all that; if the facts are misleading, then I am mislead. Also, I believe that outside these chat rooms (Which are great and very informative) is a whole world of supplment taking people that not only don't read what their taking--often don't even understand why they are taking what they are taking. I could be all wrong about this, but I do fee that some regulation may be beneficial. Especially because I believe that MOST supplements would be considered safe. Hope that clarifies my position...clear as mud, right. :-)
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I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
-Philippians 4:13
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2003/11/13, 01:23 PM
And if I may I would like to add this: NO2 "Perpetual Pump" is claimed. While the stand behind this, from what I understand you may get a better pump, but really do not gain any muscle. So the company stand behind their product and says, "you will get a better pump while taking it." But, it still doesn't mean you will grow from it. And maybe I am speaking out of my butt, but as I almost purchased it I took a hard look at what people were saying and found out that the vast majority does not think NO2 is a good product. Now, I did not buy the product, however, from what I understand, they claim something that may be true, but not beneficial. I feel (my opinion here) that that is misleading because many people sped good money being lead to believe that a better pump means increased lean mass gains...however, that is yet to be proven from what I have learned. So with that, that's my opinion and if I am wrong then I will certainly change that opinion. P.S. I am definately NOT a govt. fanatic, but I do feel that in certain cases the HYPE is far more damaging than a few supps taken off the shelf. Look, at GNC for example, you tak to one of the salespeople and they would make you believe that it's water and you better get it all, real quick before you can't get it anymore, because if the law passes then you're gonna get small and scrawny, so buy, buy, buy! My 2 cents.
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I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.
-Philippians 4:13
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