|
2004/02/25, 09:51 PM
And I dont mean that in a bad way or to stir up trouble, but to prevent the bickering that happened in the other post. Everyone is entitled to their opinions and beliefs. Here is what Paul Harvey had to say about the movie.
Paul Harvey comment on "The Passion" by Mel Gibson
Jim Bramlett Jan 11, 2004
Below are Paul Harvey's stirring comments concerning
Mel Gibson's new movie, "The Passion of the Christ,"
due to be released on February 25, 2004. Note that
Harvey says the movie is "a kind of art that is a
rarity in life."
I really did not know what to expect. I was thrilled
to have been invited to a private viewing of Mel
Gibson's film "The Passion," but I had also read all
the cautious articles and spin. I grew up in a
Jewish town and owe much of my own faith journey to
this influence. I have a life long, deeply held
aversion to anything that might even indirectly
encourage any form of anti-Semitic thought, language
or actions.
I arrived at the private viewing for "The Passion",
held in Washington DC and greeted some familiar
faces. The environment was typically Washingtonian,
with people greeting you with a smile but seeming to
look beyond you, having an agenda beyond the words.
The film was very briefly introduced, without
fanfare, and then the room darkened. From the
gripping opening scene in the Garden of Gethsemane,
to the very human and tender portrayal of the
earthly ministry of Jesus, through the betrayal, the
arrest, the scourging, the way of the cross, the
encounter with the thieves, the surrender on the
Cross, until the final scene in the empty tomb, this
was not simply a movie; it was an encounter, unlike
anything I have ever experienced.
In addition to being a masterpiece of film-making
and an artistic triumph, "The Passion" evoked more
deep reflection, sorrow and emotional reaction
within me than anything since my wedding, my
ordination or the birth of my children. Frankly, I
will never be the same. When the film
concluded, this "invitation only" gathering of
"movers and shakers" in Washington, DC were shaking
indeed, but this time from sobbing. I am not sure
there was a dry eye in the place. The crowd that had
been glad-handing before the film was now eerily
silent. No one could speak because words were
woefully inadequate. We had experienced a kind of
art that is a rarity in life,
the kind that makes heaven touch earth.
One scene in the film has now been forever etched in
my mind. A brutalized, wounded Jesus was soon to
fall again under the weight of the cross. His mother
had made her way along the Via Della Rosa. As she
ran to him, she flashed back to a memory of Jesus as
a child, falling in the dirt road outside of their
home. Just as she reached to protect him from the
fall, she was now reaching to touch his wounded
adult face. Jesus looked at her with intensely
probing and passionately loving eyes (and at all of
us through the screen) and said "Behold I make all
things new." These are words taken from the last
Book of the New Testament, the Book of Revelations.
Suddenly, the purpose of the pain was so clear and
the wounds, that earlier in the film had been so
difficult to see in His face, His back, indeed all
over His body, became intensely beautiful! . They
had been borne voluntarily for love.
At the end of the film, after we had all had a
chance to recover, a question and answer period
ensued. The unanimous praise for the film, from a
rather diverse crowd, was as astounding as the
compliments were effusive. The questions included
the one question that seems to follow this film,
even though it has not yet even been released. "Why
is this film considered by some to be
"anti-Semitic?" Frankly, having now experienced (you
do not "view" this film) "the Passion" it is a
question that is impossible to answer.
A law professor whom I admire sat in front of me. He
raised his hand and responded "After watching this
film, I do not understand how anyone can insinuate
that it even remotely presents that the Jews killed
Jesus. It doesn't." He continued "It made me realize
that my sins killed Jesus"
I agree. There is not a scintilla of anti-Semitism
to be found anywhere in this powerful film. If there
were, I would be among the first to decry it. It
faithfully tells the Gospel story in a dramatically
beautiful, sensitive and profoundly engaging way.
Those who are alleging otherwise have either not
seen the film or have another agenda behind their
protestations. This is not a "Christian" film, in
the sense that it will appeal only to those who
identify themselves as followers of Jesus Christ. It
will deeply touch all men and women. It is a
profound work of art. Yes, its producer is a
Catholic Christian and thankfully has remained
faithful to the Gospel text; if that is no longer
acceptable behavior than we are all in trouble.
History demands that we remain faithful to the story
and Christians have a right to tell it. After all,
we believe that it is the greatest story ever told
and that its message is for all men and women. The
greatest right is the right to hear the truth.
We would all be well advised to remember that the
Gospel narratives to which "The Passion" is so
faithful were written by Jewish men who followed a
Jewish Rabbi whose life and teaching have forever
changed the history of the world. The problem is not
the message but those who have distorted it and used
it for hate rather than love. The solution is not to
censor the message, but rather to promote the kind
of gift of love that is Mel Gibson's filmmaking
masterpiece, "The Passion."
It should be seen by as many people as possible. I
intend to do everything I can to make sure that is
the case. I am passionate about "The Passion." You
will be as well. Don't miss it!
A trainer at my gym had already seen it by the time I got there tonight and said it was well worth seeing, very moving and emotional and easy to read the subtitles.
--------------
~Victoria~
...Do not be discouraged; everyone who got where he is, started where he was.--anon
...There are no shortcuts to any place worth going.--Beverly Sills
|
|
|
|
2004/02/25, 09:56 PM
Not bad Victoria, not bad at all.
--------------
Some times life is like herding cats.
Charlie
|
|
2004/02/26, 12:29 AM
I am really looking forward to this film... I am not a religious person, but, as I mentioned in the other thread, I have my beliefs... today I read a couple of editorials about this movie... the editorials even made me feel some sense of emotion... I can't really explain it, but they both mentioned the scene with Jesus's mother Mary and the look in his eyes...
It should be a very moving film....
--------------
Tim
\"I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self.\"
Aristotle
TimDay@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/02/26, 08:21 AM
I normally skip the threads with long posts, LOL. However, I did read this one and was happy that I did. My mother saw the movie last night and told me that for her, it was the "Stations of the Cross" come to life. Thanks for this post.
--------------
The average dog is nicer than the average person. -Andy Rooney
|
|
2004/02/26, 09:19 AM
"some sense of emotion..." makes me sound cold hearted... :laugh:meant to say "strong sense of emotion." If the editorials can do that to me, what's the movie gonna do?
t
============
Quoting from TimDay:
I am really looking forward to this film... I am not a religious person, but, as I mentioned in the other thread, I have my beliefs... today I read a couple of editorials about this movie... the editorials even made me feel some sense of emotion... I can't really explain it, but they both mentioned the scene with Jesus's mother Mary and the look in his eyes...
It should be a very moving film....
=============
--------------
Tim
"I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self."
Aristotle
TimDay@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/02/26, 09:30 AM
a couple of my buddies here in the dorm saw it...and they were......shocked. They all said it was very good.
|
|
2004/02/27, 01:42 AM
I told my sister two days before the film opened that it would be the highest grossing film of all time (passing Titanic) just based on a feeling. I believe it'll make that mark within 3 years and hold the top spot for at least 10 more.
--------------
--There are no versions of the truth.--
Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park II
|
|
2004/03/07, 03:01 AM
this thread specifically asks for antipassionists not to post here to avoid conflict. Anyway, watching all that "blood and Gore" made me realize how much jesus had to go through, and that he endured enough to actually take the brunt of all of our sins forever, if we only believe it. Jesus was made to go through so much suffering, becuase he was to endure the punishment for all of our wrongdoings. And this film strongly and vividly depicts that, in order to give you the strong sense of how much he had to go through. And I think that if mel had taken away the very graphic images, It wouldn't have been able to give the viewer the same emotional connection that so many of them have been having. It brings peoples hearts into the movie, and that's why so many of them leave crying.
|
|
2004/03/07, 06:12 AM
Thanks for the comments of this movie. It is nice to get others opinions, of such a difficult, yet profoundly difficult topic. Not everyone is going to see things the same way. Victoria your comments of the movie are welcomed to someone who has not seen the movie,yet is looking forward to it. Thanks.
|
|
2004/03/07, 12:43 PM
*just a thought* Couldn't you have just as easily posted your thoughts under another post called "my personal review of the passion" or something along those lines? I have no problem with conflict, but i still think we should give the general masses a choice in a situation like this forum where they can read or not read whatever they like. If your post were under the other title, i probably would have read all of it to see your point of view. But rather since it was posted under this one, i looked at it at first with a skeptic eye thinking that someone was just trying to light fire underneath the pants of others. But whatever...i have no problem with it, but its just a thought for next time.
|
|
2004/03/07, 01:23 PM
Sometimes people need a good kick in the pants. What is the point of discussing a topic we all have the same view of? Sounds pretty mudayne to me.
|
|
2004/03/07, 01:38 PM
agreed, but some people like that...some people dont like opposing views...hell i love a good debate :)
|
|
2004/03/07, 04:50 PM
I saw the movie, and all I could say was absolutely nothing. We drove 25 miles to see it, and on the return trip I did not say a word. I was truly speechless. Very moving, over a week now since I saw it, and I am still thinking about it. Could this of been the whole reasoning? To make us think? I went to church today, woke my wife up and told her I wanted to go. :)
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/03/07, 06:53 PM
bhardy, give it a rest man. Nobody is more a sinner than the other. A murderer is the same as a rapist or a liar. its all sin. Now the law puts more emphasis on worse crimes, but fact is Each sin is still horrible to God apathy included. But seriously...give it a rest, you're preaching to closed minds and closed hearts by goin at it this way
|
|
2004/03/07, 07:07 PM
I think b1fit hit the point exactly... believers and non-believers and those in the middle will go see this movie. Even if it's for general curiosity.
What it will do and is doing, is getting people talking about a subject that has been debated for 2000 years. Will it bring on an increase in attendence to churches..? I bet you it will. Whatever it does, it will likely affect you in one way or another, whether you are a Christian or not.
The more we know and learn, the less ignorant we become. From that, we can make our choices.
t
============
Quoting from bb1fit:
I saw the movie, and all I could say was absolutely nothing. We drove 25 miles to see it, and on the return trip I did not say a word. I was truly speechless. Very moving, over a week now since I saw it, and I am still thinking about it. Could this of been the whole reasoning? To make us think? I went to church today, woke my wife up and told her I wanted to go. :)
=============
--------------
Tim
"I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self."
Aristotle
TimDay@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/03/07, 08:57 PM
Dude i'm not flaming you at all man. I was just saying give it a rest because in this post it seems as if you're preaching more to closed minds than anything because people get usually really defensive about religion. I love debates like i said, and i like hearing the opposite opinions...i was just saying give it a rest because it seemed liek you were pointing fingers - "That's the whole point. These individuals are the real sinners. These individuals killed Christ. These individuals continue to kill in their ignorant effort to maintain the status quo."
That's all, sorry if ya took it the wrong way. No hard feelings, and like i said, if you have some, i dont' give a d@mn ;-)
Glad you liked it the second time around.
Peace.
|
|
2004/03/07, 11:12 PM
I do believe we all brought him there...it's our sins that nailed him up on that cross.
Once again, whenever anyone busts out quotes from the Bible, it comes down to: Do you take the Bible literal?
I don't, except in certain situations...also, if we read it in the original language it was written in then we would have SOME understanding of what is possibly really meant. But we're not going to get into this argument hehe.
I think the only sin that is worse than another is the one against God aka blasphemy/idolatry (sins against the Holy Spirit)
|
|
2004/03/07, 11:21 PM
I saw the movie about a week ago, and I'm going to offer two views.
NUMBER 1
Could I have gotten signs (no pun)? No joke here. I go to watch the movie and weird things happened to me. First, I was a bit nervous when I noticed the crowd coming out of the theater; I counted three or four of roughly 300 that weren't crying.
As I watched the movie, I realized something sort of spooky. Several days before, I had a small surgery wherein they took a cyst out of my right hand (near the center), a cyst out of my left earlobe, and a hemoangioma (basically a surfaced vein) out of my upper left back...near the middle of the shoulderblade.
My hand started to hurt a little. It drew attention to my injuries. And to the actor playing Jesus...his hands, my hands, his head, my head, his back, my back. My stitches felt like they were coming out at some points, like I was feeling the blows myself.
Does this sound a little odd?
It doesn't end there.
I prepared to go into the lobby because I just had to pee, really bad. As I stand up in the theater, my sunglasses fall off of where they are tucked into my shirt collar and they scoot under my mother's chair. I couldn't find them, reaching around in the dark...in the dark...was it a sign that I needed to see the light? Was it a double-impact sign that I needed to leave the "shades" off and see the light?
Still not done...
I vacated my effort to find the glasses; figured I'd get them later. I went into the lobby, glasses lost, my three incisions getting my attention, a little unnerved by the violence at this point, roughly 3/4 of the way through the movie.
I take a right as I come out of the door and start to go in a horseshoe shape out around the snack counter to get to the bathroom--turns out I'm headed to the female bathroom and had to turn back--turns out I was going the wrong way--headed in the wrong direction...
All of this happened, mes amis. I'm not being dramatic.
Maybe God was talking to me. Maybe the movie was his moment of greatest opportunity for me.
NUMBER 2
I enjoyed the movie. I hope that it was accurate. If nothing else, Jesus was a loving person who was tortured and maimed in the most grotesque way, invoking anger and resentment and pity in me.
The Jews believe he was just a prophet. The other however-many-hundred religions believe he was just a nice guy--maybe a bit delusional.
I will not go tell a Jew he's wrong. Nor will I tell a Buddhist, Taoist, Muslim, or anybody else he is wrong. The reason I won't do that is because I cannot prove they are wrong.
Instead, I will allow them the total freedom, without my interference, to worship whomever and however they choose. I will not push my beliefs on them.
I do have beliefs, but they are only based on a feeling. At the end of this movie, a preacher from a local church (the whole theater had basically been rented that day by a group of local churches) stood up and tried to tell me how to interpret this movie; he said not to think so much of Mel Gibson and a movie but rather to ponder the "man" portrayed in the movie.
He then went on to mention his church, and urge anyone looking to join a church to consider his (or any of the churches, though he only mentioned the name of his church). I felt sick to my stomach--things moved in slow motion. The dim lights lifted his face from the shadows and I looked at the people sitting down as he spoke.
They had not even had time to take a breath--watch the credits roll--cry on a loved one--before this preacher tried to instantly tell them what they should think about what they had just seen and to come to his church.
I never came closer to embarrasing my family than I did that day. I nearly got up and walked out, during his speech. I found out later that my sister, who wept nearly uncontrollably after the movie, and who goes to church regularly, was just as angry, and she almost decided to walk out as well.
What is my point? Hellifino. I guess it goes something like this:
Do I believe Jesus existed and was kind and generous, and was tortured and killed? Yes.
Do I believe he was the son of God, and that God, as we understand Him, exists? I hope so.
Do I believe man is consistently warping religion to shape it to serve himself? Absolutely.
:love:
--------------
--There are no versions of the truth.--
Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park II
|
|
2004/03/08, 09:38 AM
I seen the movie about a week ago and I have to agree with bb1fit.....I believe I started crying half way through the movie and didnt stop until it was over on the way home my husband and I didnt really talk......I just sat and thought about life and all the things I have done in the past. I bought me a bible because I was curious to know the story from the begining. I must say that the moive left me humbled and thankful for the life that I have........it made me want to be a better person.........also if you like these things that make us think in this manner then may I suggest the book "the five people you meet in heaven" I purchased it at an airport and read the book completley in about 6 hours..........that book makes you kind of understand how everything in this world is connected and everything happens for a reason.........I loved the movie and am glad that I took my husband with me to see it because I dont think I could have handled it on my own it was very emotional for me.
|
|
2004/03/08, 05:26 PM
Thank you Ogun and bb1fit for sharing your positive reactions to seeing the movie. I can't wait to see it. The only reason I didnt see it opening day is because my hubby and I want to see it together, so I have to wait another 3-1/2 weeks for him to get home. At the time I started this thread there was already one with an ongoing debate of the pros and cons of the movie. As big and tex have already said I worded it that way so that we wouldn't have 2 threads of the same thing, but now we do. Thanks to all of you who posted positive images and opinions of the film, that IS what I was hoping for.
--------------
~Victoria~
...Do not be discouraged; everyone who got where he is, started where he was.--anon
...There are no shortcuts to any place worth going.--Beverly Sills
|
|
2004/03/08, 06:59 PM
Here's an e-mail I received this morning......what could have been.
> Studio Script Notes on "The Passion"
> Steve Martin
> ____________________________________
> Dear Mel:
> We love, LOVE the script! The ending works great. You'll be getting a call
> from us to start negotiations for the book rights.
> Love the Jesus character. So likable. He can't seem to catch a break! We
> identify with him because of it. One thing, I think we need to clearly
state
> "the rules." Why doesn't he use his super powers to save himself? The
> creative people suggest that you could simply cut away to two spectators:
> Spectator one 'Why doesn't he use his super powers to save himself?'
>
> Spectator two 'He can only use his powers to help others, never himself.'
> Does it matter which garden? Gethsemane is hard to say and Eden is a much
> more recognizable garden. Just thinking out loud.
> Our creative people suggest a clock visual fading in and out in certain
> scenes like the last supper bit: Monday, 12:43pm." or later, "Good Friday,
> 5:14pm."
> Love the repetition of "is it I?" Could be very funny. On the eighth
> inquiry, could Jesus just give a little look into camera? Breaks frame,
but
> could be a riot. Also could he change water into wine in last supper
scene?
> Would be a great moment, and it's legit. History compression is a movie
> tradition and could really brighten up the scene.
> Love the flaying !!!!!
> Could the Rabbis be Hispanic? There's lots of hot Latino actors now, could
> give us a little zing at the box office. Research says there's some
> justification for it. Is there somewhere where Jesus could be using an
IMac?
> You know, now that I hear myself say it, it sounds ridiculous. Strike
that.
> But think about it. Maybe we start a shot in heaven with Jesus
thoughtfully
> closing the top? (Reminder: heaven is timeless).
> The studio is very high on Johnny Depp right now. Just saw him in
"Pirates."
> He was hilarious. Might be right for Jesus? Not so straightforward. He
could
> bring a lot of pizzazz to the role. I think a meeting would be warranted.
> Love the idea of Monica Belluci as Mary Magdalene (Yow!). Our creative
> people suggest a name change to Heather. Could skew our audience a little
> younger.
> Love Judas. Such a great villain. Our creative people suggest that he's a
> little "conflicted." Couldn't he be one thing? Just bad? Gives the movie
> much more of a motor. Also, 30 pieces of silver is not going to get anyone
> excited. I think it's very simple to make him a "new millionaire." Bring
in
> the cash on a tray. Great dilemma that the audience can identify
> with.
> Minor spelling error: on page 18, in the description of the bystanders,
> there should be a space between the words "Jew" and "boy."
> Merchandising issue: it seems the cross image has been done to death and
we
> can't own it. Could the crucifixion scene involve something else? A Toyota
> would be wrong, but maybe there's a shape we can copyright, like an
ellipse?
> I'm assuming "the dialogue is in Aremeic," is a typo for "American." If
not
> call me on my cell or I'm at home all weekend. By the way, I'm sending a
> group of staffers on a cruise to the North Pole, coincidentally around the
> time of the release date. Would love to invite your dad!
> See you at the movies!
> Yours,
> Stan:big_smile::laugh::laugh:
--------------
Aaron
|
|
2004/03/08, 09:41 PM
I prefer the New King James Version. It's the version that I use most often. The New International Version is nice too. However, I love the language employed in the King James Version. I think it comes down to personal preference. I try to advise new Christians (especially younger ones) to use the NIV simply for the fact that it is much easier to understand. No matter the version used it must be read systematically with prayer and an open heart and mind. If you begin with preconceived notions or you approach with your own agenda you might as well be reading Shakespeare or Moby Dick. I believe God will use the movie how he sees fit. Some will receive comfort and insight others will just find additional reasons to cast disparagments against Christianity. It doesn't matter (Phillipians 1:15-18). Ogun, about the preacher, that's exactly why I haven't gone with a church group. Each person needs to contemplate and interpret it for themselves. It's a personal thing. I just wish I could get tickets soon.
|
|
2004/03/09, 01:06 AM
Bhardy...you won't wreck anything...we know he dies in the end.:)
--------------
I can beat Mario Brothers without losing a life.
Jdelts@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/03/09, 01:23 AM
The bible was written in hebrew. Back then it wasn't 'necessary' to capture the vicious nature because everyone knew about it, and had possibly even seen one. I think the reason Mel has gone so far as to spell it out for us graphically is to really help us comprehend what we did to Him (capitalized to mean Christ). Its more to provoke thought more than anything. As far as where mel got his interpretation...i have no bloody clue.
If you're a firm believer like i am, i believe God will use the movie in your own life how it needs to be for you. For some, he will use it by causing us to put forth thought and get into a debate so that maybe we read and grow closer again. For some it simply makes us think. God does what He does, and He does it well...i can't question that.
My personal interpretation of the Bible has come from the many years i spent in private school, the son of a Deacon and sunday school teacher, and a giant thirst for knowledge about something that i believed in.
I became atheist for two years, and then i returned to Christianity because i realized why i believe the things I do. I understood more about myself, and i made my decision. I read the Bible, and sure i take some literally, some i put more thought into the underlying meaning. Its something personal for me...and that's really what i believe religion should be. It should be personal, for yourself. Which is why i'm a practicing non-denominational, non-church going Christian. Sure i go once in a while to church...but when i really grow closer is just by noticing His work all around me. It simply is amazing to me. I won't go into why i don't believe in going to church, as that would open a can of worms, but i do still practice my faith. Prayer, reading (not as much this year since ive been away at college) and reflection and the such.
|
|
2004/03/09, 06:37 AM
Unfortunately, God doesn't believe in atheists! As for the church and attitudes surrounding it, they are not perfect because they are made up of people. Nevertheless, Christ established it (Matt. 16:18), died for it (Ephesians 5:25), and will return for it (John 14:1-4). bhardy, reading the Bible with an open mind is a good start. Can't find fault with that. goodoldtex, apparently you know what you believe. I'm just sorry that you have had bad experiences in the past. Remember what is said in Hebrews 10: 24-26.
|
|
2004/03/09, 10:44 AM
I don't know what happened . The above post is from me and has the name Null... What gives??
|
|
2004/03/09, 03:51 PM
Well said Ricky. The Bible is a book, written by many different people. I think any 10 people could read the same book and come back with 10 different interpretations. I don’t understand what all the hullabaloo is about Mel Gibson. I read my Bible every night and so far I haven't heard or seen anything about the movie that seems unfounded or far-fetched to me. Last night there was a movie on TV called Judas. It was different from the way I had thought of him. Does that make it wrong or evil? The same thing with The Last Temptation of Christ. Is that the way I see it? No. Could it have happened that way? Of course it could've. I wasn’t there, so I don't know firsthand. I think Mel should be admired, if for no other reason than ignoring the naysayers and putting it out there anyway. Dare to deviate (Romans 12:2).
--------------
~Victoria~
...Do not be discouraged; everyone who got where he is, started where he was.--anon
...There are no shortcuts to any place worth going.--Beverly Sills
|
|
2004/03/09, 04:31 PM
OK, I am going to step into the conversation. First, I have not been able to see the movie as of yet so I am only speaking from the info I have heard. As for the violence in the movie, I think that everyone has heard the story of the crucifixion several times. The picture most people have of it is Jesus on the cross with a small amt of blood from his head, hands, feet and sides. That is not what happened. As mentioned earlier, he was beaten beyond recognition and was extremely tortured. I think the extent of the violence is to get people to realize the full extent of what He went thru for our salvation. As for the Jews being responsible, in my opinion and I think it states in the Bible ( although I am not a Bible scholar ) that Jesus could have stopped it at any time but did not. He willing gave his life for us. As for that not being the most important part of his life, I would have to disagree based on the fact that without Jesus dying for our sins, we could not have everlasting life. :love:
|
|
2004/03/09, 05:04 PM
His life was very important but I am just saying that his death makes it possible for everyone to have eternal life. So I think that it is truly the basis for my faith. Without that act, we would be lost. I have enjoyed this posting though:love:
|
|
2004/03/09, 06:09 PM
That would depend on your definition of important is. What is written about Jesus' life, or death, has no bearing on how I live my own. I can't put a value on either.
|
|
2004/03/09, 06:26 PM
Bible study and church attendance are great places to find those answers, B. You don't have to believe to do either and you would get a variety of answers.
============
Quoting from bhardy:
I respect your faith, Atiger. Unfortunately, I don't share it. I wonder if this would be common among all atheists? Do all believers of Christ as a man, rather than the son of God, view his life as more important than his death?
=============
--------------
The greatest mystery of life is who we truly are.
Charlie
|
|
2004/03/09, 07:01 PM
bhardy,
If you are you asking: is the philosophy of Christ more prevalent than the zeal inspired by it?
Then the answer is no, his death is more significant.
|
|
2004/03/09, 07:11 PM
I bounce around. Try the Lutherans and Episcopals. Fairly open-minded bunch. A smart fellow like you can figure out a way to not put folks on the defensive.
--------------
The greatest mystery of life is who we truly are.
Charlie
|
|
2004/03/09, 07:22 PM
Well, aren't you devious. But, as I said, I don't put a value on his life or death.
But since you equating his life with his philosophy and his death with the religion, you would be hard pressed to find an atheist that would disagree with you.
Saying that the life, or death, of Jesus indirectly affects mine is a leap of faith in causality I am not willing to take.
|
|
2004/03/09, 08:02 PM
Very clever. You know I meant that I don't assign a value making one more important to me than the other.
Words have many meanings and I'd assume you could infer which was meant by the context.
Your question was answered; I'm not going to argue over semantics.
|
|
2004/03/09, 09:15 PM
Wait a minute! Let's get something straight before going any further. bhardy, are you saying that all those monsters are fake? The boobs too? Dagnabbit, crap. Man, I don't know what to believe anymore. You should really keep information like that to yourself.
|
|
2004/03/10, 10:14 AM
I thought it would be funny to stand up in the movie at the first sign of the actor playing Jesus and yell, "Jesus Christ!"
Could there have been a more appropriate time to yell it?
In my opinion, a great majority of the opinions on this board and, presumably, worldwide, offer the most interesting facts.
1. The people who are the most firm believers lash out harshly at those who question the movie, the history, or their religion, thereby defining, for me, proof that they cannot live by the method they preach.
2. How come the Italians aren't complaining? The movie made the Romans look like retarded thugs (the torturers, specifically). What if they were just following orders?
3. Is God (if there is one) powerful enough to make a movie that he could not bear to watch?
--------------
--There are no versions of the truth.--
Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park II
|
|
2004/03/10, 10:18 AM
Ogun, being an Italian I can say that you described my family. We take no offense. We live our lives according to the Sopranos.
--------------
Hecdarec in full effect.
|
|
2004/03/10, 10:25 AM
I was not going to post here, as a similar post got me banned on another bodybuilding board a while ago. But as a former atheist I do know a little on the subject. I have studied many of the worlds religion. I spnet 15 years hating god, will not get into that as time is short. end result is that I met my wife had a baby saw my dad in thehosiptal with a heart attack, my grandfather died. Needless to say all these things caused me to rethink. Now I became catholic. Now before you all jump on the wagon about "all the wars and killing done in religion name" let me say that I have studied it and know a lot about all that. But you must remeber that all that was done by men and their belief as to what the bible meant. were they right? Not in my opinion. Do I believe everything the Chruch throws at me...Not by a long shot. Bottom line is you can have faith, and not be a very religious person. In the end being the best person you can is all that matters.
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/03/10, 11:32 AM
Since this discussion has digressed ao far from Victorias original purpose,...what the hell..
Like many folk, I have looked at the great religions of the world. In common they all seem to advocate very similar ideas. Be kind to on another, live by the golden rule, love one another. There are differences to be sure. But the similarities far outweigh them.
The common denominator in the troubles among religious and political methods boils down to one simple thing.
People.
Christianity , Islam, Budism and Judaism are all fine principles to live a good life on. They break down because people aren't perfect. The same applies to democracy and communism.
This "Passion" thing is only a movie. I am glad that the predicted backlashes did not happen. I am encouraged to hear many of you say that it provoked thought. If nothing else comes from this hollywood movie, it would be great if folks were moved to be a little more understanding and tolerant of each other. Embrace the differences.
--------------
The greatest mystery of life is who we truly are.
Charlie
|
|
2004/03/10, 11:32 AM
An old saying I heard one time-"Never argue with a fool, someone looking on may not be able to tell the difference." BTW that one can go both ways.
|
|
2004/03/10, 02:48 PM
That's so dam funny I'm going to start watching the Sopranos -- gosh dang I'm glad that this movie didn't pick on the Norsemen and English, I wouldn't know what to say except "We loved our tea, our rum, and a good fight over nothing."
============
Quoting from hecdarec:
Ogun, being an Italian I can say that you described my family. We take no offense. We live our lives according to the Sopranos.
=============
:laugh::laugh::big_smile:
|
|
2004/03/11, 01:10 AM
I unno, i've always just read it voltaire everywhere, including English class in highschool. I used to get a quote a day in the email, and when this one would cycle through it was voltaire...so i dunno :)
|
|
2004/03/10, 06:01 PM
Just trying to add a little levity to the discussion. Apparently I failed. Sometimes it seems that when people argue over faith, religion, or politics it reminds me of two color blind people arguing over a shade of red. Believe me I am just as guilty. So I meant no disrespect to anyone. I think it is crazy to think that you can persuade someone on matters of faith. I have been there. I don't believe anyone disbelieved in God any more than I at a younger age. I had to draw conclusions for myself. The subject is just too personal. Good use of logic, though. Some of you guys should be lawyers.
|
|
2004/03/10, 06:06 PM
Just trying to add a little levity to the discussion. Apparently I failed. Sometimes it seems that when people argue over faith, religion, or politics it reminds me of two color blind people arguing over a shade of red. Believe me I am just as guilty. So I meant no disrespect to anyone. I think it is crazy to think that you can persuade someone on matters of faith. I have been there. I don't believe anyone disbelieved in God any more than I at a younger age. I had to draw conclusions for myself. The subject is just too personal. Good use of logic, though. Some of you guys should be lawyers.
|
|
2004/03/10, 06:09 PM
And then there are people like me with strong beliefs who still can't operate a friggin browser on a *###@* computer. Sorry
|
|
2004/03/10, 08:53 PM
I don't who said it, but I know it as, "Never argue with a fool; he will bring down to his level and beat you with experience."
|
|
2004/03/10, 09:40 PM
Good quotes all. I was never really that good at math. I suppose that's why I'm not an engineer (I do teach consumer math in high school LOL). That could also explain why I didn't understand half of what you guys said. I do firmly believe that everyone will one day stand before their maker (whomever they believe that to be). And in the words of Ricky Ricardo, "There's goin to be some 'splainin to do."
|
|
2004/03/10, 10:04 PM
by the way, bhardy the 'tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt" came from voltaire. :)
|
|
2004/03/11, 09:23 AM
Words strung together like this keep you lean and mean on this board, my friend. Thanks for making the shortest possible statements with the largest impact. That's what I'm trying to learn to do.
============
Quoting from agamble:
Just trying to add a little levity to the discussion. Apparently I failed. Sometimes it seems that when people argue over faith, religion, or politics it reminds me of two color blind people arguing over a shade of red. Believe me I am just as guilty. So I meant no disrespect to anyone. I think it is crazy to think that you can persuade someone on matters of faith. I have been there. I don't believe anyone disbelieved in God any more than I at a younger age. I had to draw conclusions for myself. The subject is just too personal. Good use of logic, though. Some of you guys should be lawyers.
=============
|
