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2006/03/15, 09:21 AM
A long post, but I was wondering what you would make of this?
Cheerleading: a sport in crisis
Cheerleading used to be as central to the Reaganite small-town wet-dream as picket fences. But a growing maelstrom of sex, substance abuse and violence has rocked the sport to its core, argues Steven Wells
Wednesday March 15, 2006
A Dallas Mavericks cheerleader
It's the half-time show at an indoor soccer game in America. The Frisbee-catching dog having done its stuff, a team of cheerleaders takes the floor. They bump. They grind. They shake their backsides and thrust their pelvises. The audience - overwhelmingly composed of 7-12-year-olds who've just finished singing the Spongebob Squarepants song - stare politely, munch hot-dogs and slurp their bucket-sized soft drinks.
Then little girls are pulled out of the crowd by the cheerleaders, lined up and taught a hip-gyrating dance routine that ends with pronounced pelvic thrusts. My female companion - a British sociologist who specialises in sport and gender - nearly chokes on her salted popcorn.
"Urk! What is this?" she yells. "What the f*ck are they doing?!"
A mum in a nearby seat looks pointedly in our direction and scowls. Don't we know there are children present?
Cheerleading is a sport in crisis. Actually, in crises. There's a furious debate as to whether it's actually a sport at all. There's a blazing row about just how appropriate it is to have schoolgirls in short skirts perform dirty dancing moves. And there are those who argue that cheerleading reinforces gender roles that should have been mocked to death back when Rock Hudson was pretending to be aroused by Doris Day.
And then there's the fact that for the last five years America has been ripped apart by a maelstrom of cheerleader sex, substance abuse and violence.
In Iowa, a 15-year-old cheerleader was arrested for allegedly writing "Columbine-style" threats to blow up her school.
In Boston members of a high school cheerleading squad produced "a homemade lesbian porno video".
In Minnesota, a cheerleader paid $50 to have a rival beaten up.
In Brooklyn kids at a school "pep rally" heckled, punched, kicked and then battered a cheerleader they considered "mediocre" with a garbage can.
In Pennsylvania a mob of drunken cheerleaders, doped up with malt liquor by their coach, went on a car-trashing rampage.
In Texas, teen cheerleaders were accused of sending a "shit pizza" to their local rivals.
In Colorado two cheerleaders were arrested for dealing morphine.
And - most famously - last year in Florida two Carolina Panthers cheerleaders were arrested after one of them hit a woman who objected to the "Top Cats" having sex with each other in a bar toilet stall.
If you want to know how deeply these stories scar the American psyche - try reading any of the above and substituting "member of the royal family" for "cheerleader". Because while cheerleaders for cheerleading will point out that there are grinning teens in flimsy ra-ra skirts and tight tops forming human pyramids everywhere from Dagenham to Da Nang, that's like boasting that there are folks who play cricket in Connecticut. Cheerleading is quintessentially American. More than that, the bright-as-a-button, perma-grinning, pony-tailed cheerleader is the shining icon of idealised American femininity. And as such she is at the centre of some of the American Culture Wars' most savagely fought brawls.
In 2005 the Texas legislature became one such battleground. In scenes that bordered on the surreal, politicians waving pom-poms debated a "cheerleader booty bill" designed to stamp out "overtly sexually suggestive" cheerleading. "We are telling teenagers not to have sex, but are teaching them how to do it on the football field and applauding them when they do it," claimed the bill's sponsor, Democratic representative Al Edwards. "It's just too sexually oriented, you know, the way they're shaking their behinds and going on, breaking it down." Edwards, who once suggested that drug dealers should have their fingers snipped off, also claimed that cheerleading leads to teen pregnancies, school dropouts and the spread of STDs.
His bill provoked a ferocious national debate. "Tiny pleated skirts = good. Tight cheerleading sweaters = good. Being considered in pop culture to be fluffbunnies and lacking athletic prowess = good. Gyrating your hips like Elvis = bad," mocked one feminist critic.
The cheerleader, says Mary Ellen Hanson, author of Go! Fight! Win!: Cheerleading in American Culture, is the poster child for the virgin/whore dichotomy; simultaneously representing "youthful prestige, wholesome attractiveness, peer leadership, and popularity" as well as "mindless enthusiasm, shallow boosterism, objectified sexuality and promiscuous availability."
America's cultural conservatives are severely conflicted about cheerleading. On one hand the cheerleader is obviously as much a part of the Reaganite small-town wet-dream as soda fountains, white picket fences and letter sweaters. More than that, she reinforces the 1950s gender stereotypes beloved of the political right. Men play American football; girls stand on the sidelines, cheer and look pretty. That's the way it used to be. That's the way they feel it still should be. And that's the way it will be again if conservatives ever manage to repeal Title IX - the 1972 legislation that mandates equal funding for male and female sports in education. Then they could get girls off the soccer pitch (hideous foreign, socialist game that it is) and back on to the sidelines where they belong.
On the other hand, cheerleading is so obviously sexually titillating that there are those on the Christian right who want to police it, Iran style. But this is no clear-cut conflict - it's nostalgists v authoritarians v libertarians, with cheerleading exposing the ugly ideological mess at the heart of modern conservatism.
Then there are those who attempt to bridge the gap - like Rose Clevenger, president of the North Carolina-based Christian Cheerleaders of America ("Building PEOPLE Before Pyramids"). While it's true that secular cheerleading is polluted with "bare midriffs, very short shirts, bump and grind music with vulgar lyrics, authority abusive lyrics and totally inappropriate moves with sexual implications", says Rose, her organisation has "biblically based standards of dress, music and moves." (The mind boggles).
"One of the strange things about cheerleader culture is that it crosses with religious culture," muses 24-year-old American cultural critic Marty Beckerman, author of the book Death To All Cheerleaders (in which he describes cheerleaders as a "race of loose bimbos with the brain capacity of squirrel faeces"). As a 16-year-old, Beckerman was sacked from his job as a newspaper cub reporter for asking a 13-year-old cheerleader what it felt like to be "a urine stain on the toilet seat of America".
"It's a strange game the parents play, where they want the girls to be sexy but not too sexy," says Beckerman. "There's a definite paedophile element - or at least ephebophile - with these old lechers getting off on young girls, but if they get too sexy, then these same religious parents say it's obscene and want to ban the sexual element. Perfect example of how this country is sexually repressed and obsessed at the same time."
Of course, this debate had to happen in Texas - home of the Dallas Cowboys cheerleaders, the troupe generally credited with turning professional cheerleading into the para-pornographic spectacle it is today. "The audience deserves a little sex with its violence," chuckled CBS TV producer Chuck Milton, after the 1976 Super Bowl X, when the Cowboys' cheerleaders first rocked America. And since then, sneers New York Times columnist Frank Rich, the NFL has been in the "sex business".
"They took the wholesome All-American good girl and dressed her very provocatively, put her in tight pants and tops that showed a lot of cleavage" says Adams, associate professor at Alabama University and co-author of Cheerleader: An American Icon. "It's like one ex-Cowboys cheerleader told us: 'We were the ultimate male fantasy girls that you wanted to take home to Mom - but you wanted to have sex with us on the way'."
Meanwhile, out in the hinterland, non-professional cheerleading has evolved and mushroomed. And so has the controversy. Natalie Adams, a former cheerleader herself, says cheerleading has split into two camps - the traditional and the competitive. Competitive cheerleaders don't cheer; they just compete with other cheerleaders. It's a strange situation perhaps analogous to English soccer hooliganism carrying on in the absence of any soccer.
"Over 20 state athletic associations now classify cheerleading as a sport," says Adams. Which has led to some feminist critics arguing that this is a blatant attempt to roll back Title IX, drag girls away from "real sports" and turn them back into rah-rahing female eunuchs.
Alternative America has long despised the cheerleader. In the 1991 video for Smells Like Teen Spirit, Nirvana used anarchy symbol adorned cheerleaders (they originally wanted them "overweight and ugly") to symbolise sterile conformity. In his writings, singer Kurt Cobain fantasised about "cheerleaders and... football jocks" being stripped naked and humiliated at gunpoint. "They must be petrified to ever think of being the stuck-up, self-righteous, segregating, guilt-spreading, ass kissing, white right-wing republicans of the future."
A Baltimore punk band called Die Cheerleader released a record titled Down With Pom Poms. On hip American teen websites, conformist females are denigrated as "chimbos" (cheerleading bimbos"). And there's even an Anti-Cheerleading Association operating out of Arkansas, which claims that "cheerleading is kept strong by the forces of Hitler from beyond the grave".
But so strong is the appeal of the cheerleader that in recent years she has even conquered the hearts of radical America. The Nirvana-style "punk cheerleader" - such an absurd and subversive oxymoron in 1991 - now makes semi-regular appearances at the Super Bowl pre-game and half-time shows (surely the acme of cultural co-option). Meanwhile the spiky, transgressive (and occasionally satanic) alternative cheerleader has become a counter-cultural cliché. She's a regular at roller derby games, anti-war demonstrations, alternative karaoke evenings, psychobilly gigs and wherever hipsters gather to knit, sip Pabst Blue Ribbon beer and bitch about the straights.
Some alternative cheerleaders - like the milky-eyed, tombstone-toothed and prison-tattooed Texas "trailer-trash" cheerleaders "MiLi and TilduH" are clearly parodies of mainstream cheerleading's sanitised girly-girliness. But others, says Natalie Adams, refuse to condemn their mainstream sisters. Even while they take part in demonstrations with chants like: "Lube me up and bind those wrists/to fuck like this is to resist/give a cop a golden shower/come on baby, fight the power!" these feminist and queer activist cheerleaders claim solidarity with rah-rahing straight girls in smalltown America, whose passions and pastimes - they claim - have always been mocked, trivialised and abused, precisely because they're seen as female.
Which brings us to the final battlefield in the Cheerleading Wars.
"If a daughter of mine wanted to be a cheerleader I would boil her alive," claims Marty Beckerman. "But not 'till I killed her, just until I killed her dreams. But if it was my son I'd drag him behind my truck 'till he died."
When the Sacramento Kings basketball team tried to introduce male cheerleaders, they were, according to one report "booed off the court by scandalised fans whose beer-addled brains were fixated on seeing cheerleaders' bouncing jugs." And when pictures of George W Bush in male cheerleading gear started circulating on the web, at least one right-wing blogger was convinced it was a PhotoShop stitch-up concocted to demean Dubya's sexuality.
The irony is that, until the second world war, cheerleading was almost exclusively male - and in some places male cheerleading flourished well into the 1960s. Dwight D. Eisenhower, Franklin D Roosevelt, Jimmy Stewart, Michael Douglas, Samuel L Jackson, Steve Martin and George Bush senior were all teenage cheerleaders. But nowadays it's like Billy Elliot never happened. The mere presence of a man in a cheerleading jersey is enough to start most male American sports fans pounding on the closet door.
Meanwhile, out there in cheerleading land, the few boys who do gain entrance are forbidden to dance. Their movements are straight-armed, jerky and militaristic. Their haircuts are short and neat - GI Joe to the girls' scrunchie-restrained Malibu Barbie. Stepford gender is alive and well in 21st-century America.
But so is the alternative. While the cheerleader might give us a fascinating snapshot of the American Culture Wars, Natalie Adams reckons there might only be as few as 1.8m cheerleaders in the entire country. This contrasts with probably more than 10m female soccer players. Like the soda fountain and the letter sweater, as an icon the cheerleader is well past her sell-by date. But it might be a while before America wakes up and smells the Ralgex.
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*each to their own*
*The revolution's just a t-shirt away!*
*There is no first strike in karate*
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2006/03/15, 10:06 AM
Personal opinion is that after 18 years of age, sexual moves/dancing, and provacative dressing doesn't bother me. I don't however agree with it to be displayed in a public arena for age 18 and under. I don't see how teachers deal with this stuff all the time. things are so contradictory anymore. You have parents not wanting their kids to have sex, but then buying them any clothing and undergarments they want. I certainly hope that the new generation of parents will change things back to a little more of a conservative nature.
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2006/03/15, 10:39 AM
it's like, I don't know about in America, but in Britain the playboy bunny is a very popular brand with young girls aged 9 to 15. You can get tops, stationery, underwear, jewellery etc. The sick thing is thought that it is aimed at this age group. I don't have any issues with pornography, but I don't think a nine year old should be wearing playboy bunny knickers.
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*each to their own*
*The revolution's just a t-shirt away!*
*There is no first strike in karate*
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2006/03/15, 10:41 AM
Also, what do the women here make of the feminist aspect of the article? (taken from the Guardian online, 15/3)
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*each to their own*
*The revolution's just a t-shirt away!*
*There is no first strike in karate*
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2006/03/15, 11:28 AM
Damn. Whomever wrote this article had way too much time on their hands and really overthought such a simple occupation...
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Michael
Powerlifters -
We eat raw meat, and sleep naked in the snow...
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2006/03/15, 12:23 PM
It's much too long for me to read. I'll wait till Menace comments and agree with him. And wrestler, welcome to the ranks of the pro board. We can also talk about this there where nobody else can read it.
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Sometimes life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2006/03/15, 06:17 PM
Well as for anything in "sports" only time somthing that gets national attentions is when somthing bad happens.
Theres Bull in every sport. Baseball players at my highschool would hold down the freshman and shave their heads as an "right to passage." Footbal players get in fights all the time, after games in school etc. Only thing is men are soposed to act like that....Also as for them beating up, sending poop pizza's to rival teams....thats just stuff that goes on in highschool? I think the poop pizza idea is halarious...thats nothing new in ANY sport.
As for the drugs,sex tape what have you.....thats the parents fault...people wanna point the finger at everyone but themselves. If the parents had distiled the values in thier kids not to do drygs and respect others....then theres no problem.
OF coarse theres never any comment on steriod use in male highschool athletes...when i read somwhere 30% of male athletes have tried them, while 10% have thought about it.
As for the "profesional" cheerleaders....they are dancers not cheerleaders, while what they do is crude somtimes etc. however 80% of the people who go to NBA and NFL are guys.....therefore everything is geared toward men ; sponsors, media hype, the dances etc. Now I don't agree with the "cheerleaders" in question geting 12yr old out and making them bump and grind....but then again its nothing the kids don't already know how to do. As for the 2 chicks in the bathroom....all that was I think was publicity mostly, some say they where having sex others say fighting..who cares....if it had been a man and woman doing it, they said nothing about it.
Go to any teen club, party wahtever.....there will be drugs, alchol, dirty dancing etc. And lyrics to songs that will make a grown person blush. This isn't anything new to these kids. SEX IS a part of their lives already...nothing new to them lol. Short skirts have always been around, so have tube tops etc. Again go to a club you'll see it all.
REAL cheerleading organizations(nca, coa,uca ..name a few) to name a few have very strict rules on looking like a professional. Music can't have dirty language and all routines must have music that is age oriented as with dancing.
Theres bad apples in every bunch....look at any sport. peopel just think cheerleaders are "sweet, straight A, virgin, spunky students/ athletes. When in fact there are just like any other athlete....
Do I think cheerleading is a sport honestly no, I think its made a "sport." Every school /collge has to have an even number of girl to guy "sports" So if they make cheerleading a sport....one less thing to worry about. However that doesn't make us any less of an athlete. IMO
but in conclusion......Who really gives a cares?
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/03/15, 07:53 PM
hmm....i got logged out and my response was not posted.....no more 'null' i suppose....LOL
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2006/03/15, 08:04 PM
No sport is immuned from having a few people with little character...Having cheerleaders succumb to the same temptations as athletes of other sports fall victim too is also far from shocking.....Rumors about cheerleaders in our school were also floating around....
On a sidenote if I am paying 100$ to see a ball game, I'd much rather have the cheerleaders be females.....no offense Andrew lol....
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2006/03/15, 08:45 PM
I agree.
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Sometimes life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2006/03/16, 08:33 AM
I like the article - the author is very funny and explores all the different vie3ws on cheerleading.
To try and change an entire culture that has gone off the rails in age-approprite sexiness in nearly all areas..hmm. All we can do is mind our own children and instill values in them and refuse to allow them to dress like brittany spears at age 9.
But look at all of the ways girls are taight to value themselves by looks and sex appeal, it is an up-hill battle for p[arents, if the girls are alucky enough to have parents who take the time to discuss things with them, to explain that they are more than the size of their breasts, more than how many men want them, more than how they look in a tight skirt. That there is more to life than attracting the opposite sex. oh well, here I have gone off on a rant ...
I think cheerleading will continue, as will the sick pageants where 9 year-olds dress like 25 year-old hookers, as will many things that put women intio their 'proper' place as sex symbols.
But you can choose not to participate...
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Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help with man with the wrong mental attitude.
- W. W. Ziege
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2006/03/16, 10:27 AM
I'm in agreement with everyone, but I do believe as a parent that I do care more now than I did before about these kind of issues. I see alot of young girls that have no self worth anymore, and truly, I'm not the kind of person that really gives a flying rat's @ss about society, but it is a scary trend when you think back at how easily influenced I was back in middle and high school. I'm going to try my best to raise my children to be independent and strong with their own beliefs and for them to realize that people will respect them more in the long run for holding their own independence/values. It's going to be a hard battle though....
My cousin's wife is an extreme feminist and as I typically have heated debates about things with her, she had a really good point about the tight clothes on young girls.
She pointed out that it's the mind set of the person doing the observation that also plays a part in the issue.
Makes me think badly on myself though when I walk through a mall, and scan from the heals to the face and then finally get to the face and realize that she is like 15. YUCK..... It just shocks me really
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2006/03/16, 10:35 AM
heels lol..... point it out before menace gets it.... :)
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2006/03/18, 08:15 PM
Thanks charlie.
I think its a case of the wrong person getting caught. If it was a track athlete, do you think it would get this kind of attention? Beware of media bias.
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/03/29, 11:57 AM
LOL @ calling cheerleading a sport.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 12:05 PM
oh boy here we go
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/03/29, 12:52 PM
Well, allow me to explain, and the following is my opinion:
I'm not saying cheerleaders are not athletes, they simply don't participate in a sport. I can tell this because there is no offense or defence. And the winner is decided by a judge(s). If anything, it is Dancenastics with little emphasis on the 'nastics. I did gymnastics for 6 years and I wouldn't consider that a sport either. Basically everybody can do the same stuff, so it comes down to choreography and skill.
Combat sports (boxing) use judges as a last resort, really, so this is acceptable.
Other non-sports in my opinion are:
Golf, Bowling, Billiards, Figure Skating, Poker (this ones hysterical)
Nascar is borderline.
Just another point of view is all.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 12:57 PM
sport (spôrt, sprt)
n.
1.
a. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
b. A particular form of this activity.
2. An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively.
3. An active pastime; recreation.
4.
a. Mockery; jest: He made sport of his own looks.
b. An object of mockery, jest, or play: treated our interests as sport.
c. A joking mood or attitude: She made the remark in sport.
5.
a. One known for the manner of one's acceptance of rules, especially of a game, or of a difficult situation: a poor sport.
b. Informal One who accepts rules or difficult situations well.
c. Informal A pleasant companion: was a real sport during the trip.
6. Informal
a. A person who lives a jolly, extravagant life.
b. A gambler at sporting events.
7. Biology An organism that shows a marked change from the normal type or parent stock, typically as a result of mutation.
8. Maine See summercater. See Regional Note at summercater.
9. Obsolete Amorous dalliance; lovemaking.
v. sport·ed, sport·ing, sports
v.intr.
1. To play or frolic.
2. To joke or trifle.
3. Biology To mutate.
v.tr.
To display or show off: "His shoes sported elevated heels" Truman Capote.
adj. or sports
1. Of, relating to, or appropriate for sports: sport fishing; sports equipment.
2. Designed or appropriate for outdoor or informal wear: a sport shirt.
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2006/03/29, 01:06 PM
There is alot of offense and defense in billiards and poker by the way, just not on a novice level. Your definition of sport varies from what a dictionary describes.
I guess running isn't a sport either right, or maybe competitive weight lifting either because there isn't any offense or defense.
As I'm not a big cheerleader sport fan myself, I do realize that it's a competitive skill much like gymnastics which by the dictionary definition is in fact a sport and at times can be extremely hard to ackomplish some of the routines that pull off.
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2006/03/29, 01:12 PM
OK so checkers is a sport too. And according to #9 so is sex. Nice to know though, I never looked up the definition.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 01:15 PM
Why wouldn't sex be a sport?
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Sometimes life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2006/03/29, 01:19 PM
In running, the winner is not typically judged. Kind of a best time sort of thing usually, I thought. The winner cannot be disputed.
I consider weightlifting preparation for a sport.
What athletic training is involved with billiards & poker?
I absolutely agree cheerleading is an athletic activity.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 01:24 PM
============
Quoting from charlie826:
Why wouldn't sex be a sport?
Have you ever lost?
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 01:26 PM
Only when I tried to use it as a tax deduction.
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Sometimes life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2006/03/29, 01:29 PM
weight lifting is not s sport huh? LOL boy you got a lot to learn
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/03/29, 01:29 PM
:laugh:Great work outta you!
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 01:33 PM
Weight lifting in general, no. I suppose competition is different because the highest total wins, right?
Or can two people who upped the same weight be judged differently? With only one victor?
If that were the case, how much would the loser have lost by?
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 01:42 PM
I find it funny that running is a sport even though two people can run the same time, but weight lifting isn't because two people could lift the same weight.
Or that in order to be a sport you must have offense and defense, however there is no mention of skill.
I guess the olympics consists of nothing but some random group of skills not sports. LMAO!!!
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2006/03/29, 01:53 PM
Like I said i'm a cheerleader....nad i'm un borderline weither its a sport. Very hard to declare a winner...since he is right, a judge does determine the winner.
Case in point.....abotu 5 years ago a collage near me went to uca nationals......hit the routine perfect.....(i've seen the tape) while a school that has won it for the past 4 years of that division droped a stunt....both routines where relitivly the same difficultity...however the team thats dropped won?
So i'm on border line myself honestly......weither its a "sport" ....however that doesnt' mean i'm not a athlete.
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/03/29, 01:54 PM
Ah yes Curling is a sport for sure. Just like bocce.
Some real olympic sports are Hockey, Basketball, Boxing, any timed race, there are others.
Skill is required to be GOOD at sports. Not to play them.
PYABO!!
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 01:59 PM
I'd say yer an athelete Drew, and have. Poker players (although they can be) are not. Stamina to them is how long you can keep from going to the bathroom.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 02:25 PM
very weird gray area....for some "sports".....
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/03/29, 02:25 PM
In over 9 posts you have said that cheerleading isn't a sport, however you still have not been able to effectively describe the definition of a sport without being contradicting.
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2006/03/29, 02:51 PM
So skill is the deciding factor if it is sport? I feel that there is a lot of skill needed to squat say 1200 lbs....just my opinion. Hell for that matter skill is needed to squat 450lbs.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/03/29, 02:52 PM
I said I do not consider cheerleading a sport. You can call it whatever you like, it doesn't bother me.
In regards to running, again. If two poeple tie, does a judge award a winner?
Boxing & weightlifting may be exempt from non-sport status because a judge is a last resort. There are ways to bypass judging based on performance.
Seriously I think this is a great debate & I'm sorry if yer getting annoyed. I thought I was clear.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 03:32 PM
If you consider Form a product of Skill, Mutt, then I would say you are correct.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/29, 03:47 PM
Raulduke, would playing a video game be declared a sport by the above references? It takes skill, there is offence and defence used, and it has a clear winner.
As for cheerleading, I would declare it an athletic competition not really a sport but much more of one than curling
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2006/03/29, 04:44 PM
I think form is a skill as there are lifters that lift for years ans still do not get it right. Anyway, this is really a non issue as we each have our own opinion.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/03/29, 04:44 PM
I like comedian George Carlin's definition of a sport best: "An activity (usually containing some sort of ball) where the participants have the distinct possibility of being severely injured..." :big_smile: :laugh:
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Michael
Powerlifters -
We eat raw meat, and sleep naked in the snow...
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2006/03/29, 04:45 PM
Atiger I would think so...and it might be considered a sport...at a competitive level with a lot of money on the line....it involves a lot of hand/eye coordination, thought process, etc...
Although I always chuckle at chess/checkers/poker being called sports...as there's not much physical exertion being done...but then again it does involve a lot of concentration, mental skill, endurance to play for 10 hours straight(name one sport where that's the case...because WSOP is 5 days of 10+ hour days for mainevent).....chess is almost immuned from luck and it has both 'offense' and 'defense' is it a sport? you can win, lose, tie or force a tie...as well....
cheerleading is 100% sport...not even close for an argument....they choreograph complex moves....which involves a lot of skill, dedication, focus, strength, balance, flexibility, etc....there are many sports where there's 1/100 of athletic ability involved....Look at Andrew...he has to balance a 120lb cheerleader with one arm above his head....while having to keep up with the routine and make sure he stays in his choreographed spot , etc, etc...it's quite difficult...whether the winner is determined through time, some randomly assigned numerical total(ie weight, number of reps x lifted, lifting all 5 stones, etc), with judges based on some criteria(which is both subjective and objective...which is part of most sports...whether you like it or not).......
Nascar is somewhat similar to poker.....it involves a lot mental focus/skill...granted your life is on the line every time you get in the car....
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2006/03/29, 05:25 PM
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Quoting from rev8ball:
I like comedian George Carlin's definition of a sport best: "An activity (usually containing some sort of ball) where the participants have the distinct possibility of being severely injured..." :big_smile: :laugh:
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Then sex qualifies for sure...even has the danger of being arrested thrown in for added adventure.
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Sometimes life is like herding cats.
Charlie
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2006/03/29, 06:24 PM
I think ...the public makes a sport a sport....look at the take off of texas hold'm and poker all of a sudden....society is making things sports....that really shouldn't be....
So I don't know....one coudl say....is bodybuilding a sport, or athlete compotition? If you say its a sport...then wouln't modeling be too?
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/03/30, 07:21 AM
OK, here are a couple of examples I'll use to disprove that dictionary definition, in my opinion:
I spent a day of basic training trying out for special-ops. Over 70 of us competed with each other physically for 19 spots that were open. 9 of us made it. I do not believe this qualifies as a sport.
Somewhere in a warehouse there is a team of workers competing against another team of workers for money. Each team's pay is determined by how much work they performed during their shift. You work slow, yer paid less. I do not believe these folks are playing a sport.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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2006/03/30, 08:10 AM
And here, is an attempt to cover all the bases with what a "sport" is to me.
Sports should meet the following criteria:
1. A sport should require an athlete to play it well at the most elite level. An athlete who physically trains because they know that fitness and conditioning will play a major role in their success in the sport. A good way to be sure if yer activity falls into this category, is to determine whether or not a chain-smoker would have the same chance of winning as someone who never took a drag. So here is where we say goodbye to video games, board games, billiards, bowling, curling, shuffleboard, paper triangle football, competitive eating, and even vigourous battles of rock-paper-scissors.
2.If THE ONLY WAY you can tell for certain whether you won or not is by someone else telling you....you have not participated in a sport. That was a talent show. Sorry cheerleading, gymnastics, figure skating, ballroom dancing, hot-dog skiing, skateboarding, surfing, and diving.
3. Ancient sports are grandfathered in. Like Highland Games, weightlifting, and running. It just seems to me that these were probably among the first sports played, even before we had the the word "sport" as a label. I like to think that one day caveman Ugh bet caveman Thugh that he could lift a heavier rock. Maybe they had a dinosaur burger riding on the outcome. About as basic as you can get here, and this was before the evolution of offense and defense.
4. If yer activity has not been eliminated after the above test, ask yerself if you play offense or defense, or both.
If the answer is yes, and yer still not sure, look around next time you play. Is there a scoreboard keeping track of who's winning? Can you call a timeout? If you answer yes, then you, my friend, are playing a sport!
Now how can we apply this to everyday life? I'll use myself as an example. If someone were to ask me what sports I play, I would say I play tennis on wed. and thur. I would not feel as though I'm selling myself short by not mentioning I'm an APA member (our team name is the "Balls In Hand" & I'm a founding 'member'!). Nor would I say that I play golf on fridays and fish on sunday.
Hope we're clear now, and please don't feel slighted if you feel I've singled out yer activity. It's not meant to disrespect anyones talent or dedication to anything, simply an offering as to why I think the word sport is used too liberally these days, whether it's to be PC or what I don't know.
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Storm-Trooper, Storm-Trooper back up from my door,
Ive got my blaster set, Im ready to start a minor war...
Res ipsa loquitur
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