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Can you work to hard?

oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/01/25, 09:40 AM Hi im a 21 year old student who havent got the money to go to gyms and therefore never had any advice about training. I bought a bench press some years ago and can also decline it to make ab training. I work out every day and train the same muscles many times a day. It is impossible to see that i train i dont grow big at all! but still i can press 85 kilos which is twice what some of my friends can. Can it really hurt to work out so much as i do, now that i have the time and all???
dhurt55 Posts: 93 Joined: 2004/01/02	2004/01/25, 10:18 AM It most certainly can...not only could this be overtraining...but always training the same body parts every week and neglecting others can lead to a very disproportionate physic...the reason why you arent growing big is because you are leaving out one of the largest(aside from nutrition) factors in building mass, rest!!!! -------------- "Without Pains, there come no Gains" -Benjamin Franklin
oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/01/25, 11:04 AM Well I normally bicycle more than 20 miles a day plus I play basketball and soccer, so my leg muscles are already disproportionate to my upper body (the main reason I started to train) But I have read that you don't have to rest the abs so much. Can you give me a quick hint on how much rest I need to take between training breast and abs?
dhurt55 Posts: 93 Joined: 2004/01/02	2004/01/25, 02:00 PM I do know that the abs recuperate quicker than other muscle groups, i train abs every other day(along with calves) but as far as chest goes...I hit chest 1-2 times per week...I have no idea what the safest minimal time of rest between chest workouts is...some advice from you pros would be greatly appreciated! -------------- "Without Pains, there come no Gains" -Benjamin Franklin
bb1fit Posts: 11,105 Joined: 2001/06/30	2004/01/25, 03:06 PM Always give at least 72 hrs. between bodyparts, and longer if really an intense workout. Speaking in most simplistic terms, this is what happens. Your muscle cannot possibly grow. You do not grow in the gym, or in your case when you are exercising at home a muscle. You grow with proper rest and nutrition. What you are doing is damaging muscle fibers when you train, and the idea is that with proper nutrients and rest, the fibers will repair themselves a bit larger and stronger, and time after time this will lead to more lean tissue. But if you don't give the fibers time to heal, they can never repair and grow, thus you are always damaging fibers that are already damaged(never allowed to heal). -------------- If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
dhurt55 Posts: 93 Joined: 2004/01/02	2004/01/25, 05:20 PM Thanks bb1fit...I just didnt want to give the wrong information! Hope this helps oeberg..and good luck! :) -------------- "Without Pains, there come no Gains" -Benjamin Franklin
oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/01/26, 07:36 AM It helps alot! i just wondered about the minimum 72 hrs, is that true for abs too? because I get the impression like you say dhurt55 that you can train them every other day (48 hrs)!? When you say i need the right nutrition is it really important what i eat? like the proper amount of each ingredient? because I have a high metabolism and eat more of anything that is suggested...
oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/01/26, 07:36 AM Message deleted by moderator due to unsuitable content for this board.
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2004/01/26, 12:14 PM ============ Quoting from dhurt55: So training abs with resistance is the only way to get a 6-pack? I have never heard this before... ============= Unfortunately, this is true. Even if you drop your bodyfat to below 8%, you will just see a flat stomach. To get the defined, 6-pack abs, you need to work them with weights the same way you would all of your other muscles. -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
bb1fit Posts: 11,105 Joined: 2001/06/30	2004/01/26, 10:14 AM Your abs are muscles too, and if you train them with resistance, then rest is also required(just about the same amount). If you just do situps or crunches each day with no weight, then fine, work them every day. You are not hurting the fibers, you are but burning calories and will never have a six pack if that is what you want. And yes, it is extemely important what you eat. -------------- If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/01/26, 10:38 AM OK to get one thing clear... If i for example train my abs with resist (weights on chest???) and i train them again after 60 hrs will the missing rest of 12 hrs destroy all progress like when i trained every day or will it just not be perfect?
dhurt55 Posts: 93 Joined: 2004/01/02	2004/01/26, 11:01 AM So training abs with resistance is the only way to get a 6-pack? I have never heard this before... -------------- "Without Pains, there come no Gains" -Benjamin Franklin
Leilita808 Posts: 154 Joined: 2004/01/07	2004/01/26, 11:10 AM is safe to do abs morning and evening?
rpacheco Posts: 3,770 Joined: 2001/12/13	2004/01/26, 12:15 PM ============ Quoting from Leilita808: is safe to do abs morning and evening? ============= Basically, are you just doing non-resistance ab exercises? If so, this should be fine. Good luck! -------------- **_Robert_** Pain is temporary; glory is forever!
bb1fit Posts: 11,105 Joined: 2001/06/30	2004/01/26, 01:01 PM Good post rpacheco....yes, you have to BUILD the ab muscles with weights(resistance) to get them to show, just like you would any other muscle. If you do reps for abs without weight, it is kind of like doing biceps without weight, just a curl bar for instance. Will you build any muscle there? You will be burning calories for sure, and this will help with your weight loss, but you will never see any defined muscle. -------------- If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
Leilita808 Posts: 154 Joined: 2004/01/07	2004/01/26, 01:21 PM I like the definition, but I don't like the veins. I do non-resistance exercises. How much weight are we talking about? 5 pounds?
dhurt55 Posts: 93 Joined: 2004/01/02	2004/01/26, 01:52 PM I have never done abs with weight as resistance and my abdominals have grown significantly since i started working out...and the only reason I know this is because i had the "flat stomach" and my body fat percentage didnt change...they just grew...could this have been because I had never worked them before at all..and this was just a shocker to the muscle??? but now that i have established a fairly nice 6 pack..should i start using resistance to build it up even further? -------------- "Without Pains, there come no Gains" -Benjamin Franklin
TRad Posts: 94 Joined: 2004/01/03	2004/01/26, 01:56 PM so, crunches and leg lifts for examples, won't give you a six-pack? yikes, I have a long way to go I guess; it's hard enough getting through those as it is. Somedays they make me curl up into the fetal position and hyperventilate, while making high pitched noises only dogs and birds can hear. haha... I kid.
Leilita808 Posts: 154 Joined: 2004/01/07	2004/01/26, 02:36 PM haha ouch my tummy hurts. TRad you are crazy.
TRad Posts: 94 Joined: 2004/01/03	2004/01/26, 02:38 PM hey, I wonder if someone laughs hard and long enough, if your abs will get noticeably stronger?
	2004/01/26, 02:51 PM Yo TRad, do you wear the garbage bag and duct tape when doing abs?? That image did make me smile. Seriously though If you add resistance to the abs movements, you will get good results. You can also lower the number of reps as you inctease the weight. -------------- Living well is the best revenge. Charlie
TRad Posts: 94 Joined: 2004/01/03	2004/01/26, 03:03 PM no charlie, the garbage bag is strictly for cardio only. My ab routines requires a hockey helmet as well as a custom jacket made of bubble-wrap; safety in the gym is far too often overlooked - can't be too careful. I have wanted to try use one of those medicine balls on a decline bench while doing crunches/situps. Will this qualify as resistence? I'm not too keen on the ab machines and avoid them where substitutes will do the trick.
Leilita808 Posts: 154 Joined: 2004/01/07	2004/01/26, 03:04 PM I tried an interesting tummy workout this morning. Put your shins on a fitness ball and do some push up.
	2004/01/26, 03:08 PM TRad, just use a weight disk for crunches, then you can increase as you get stronger. Hold a dumbell between your feet for leg lifts.Wear a cup. Try cable crunches too. -------------- Living well is the best revenge. Charlie
TRad Posts: 94 Joined: 2004/01/03	2004/01/26, 03:19 PM There's another exercise my friend showed me just a few weeks ago using a medicine ball. It works the abs and definitely helps your balance. 1) get into a pushup-style position with your shins on the ball. 2) keeping your hands planted on the floor, lift your butt high into the air, thus rolling the ball towards your hands. Your feet should now be touching the ball, and you will look like you're making a pyramid with your body. 3) hold for 5 seconds, return to starting position. try a few sets of that and see how you feel. I think I'll stop posting in this thread as it has gone slightly off topic now.
TRad Posts: 94 Joined: 2004/01/03	2004/01/26, 03:20 PM wait a sec. I'm not sure if they're called medicine balls. I'm talking about those huge rubber balls that vary in size but are usually about 2 feet tall and weight only a couple pounds.
bb1fit Posts: 11,105 Joined: 2001/06/30	2004/01/26, 07:02 PM Swiss ball....it is wonderful to build core ab strength. You can do your crunches with a weight plate on these, they are great because you can go way back with the curvature of the ball. Excellent piece of equipment. -------------- If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2004/01/27, 06:24 PM i always herd that puting weight on ur abbs makes them " bigger" which could lead to makeing ones waist bigger.......is this true or just a legend or myth..? -------------- ---andrew.......adversity causes some to break, but others to break records! LEAVE YOUR EGO AT THE DOOR!!
Leilita808 Posts: 154 Joined: 2004/01/07	2004/01/27, 06:26 PM I used weights today with my ab workout.....holy ouch. I don't know if I did it right. I used a 10 pound on my chest and did sit ups. Is that okay?
	2004/01/27, 06:59 PM Thats awesome Leitita. Do crunches though. They don't strain your back.10 lbs is great kiddo even for Air Force!!! -------------- Living well is the best revenge. Charlie
dogboy99nz Posts: 40 Joined: 2003/04/20	2004/01/27, 09:07 PM Urk - just the abs workout I do brings tears to the eyes some mornings, Now they want me to add weights. Where will it all end???? But on another note - do people find that those ankle weight strap thingies do the trick (for lying front kicks etc). And how do they work - ie can you add weight to them or do they just come in certain weights? -------------- Aaron
oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/02/03, 05:17 AM I never got an answer to my question about training a certain muscle group "OK to get one thing clear... If i for example train my abs with resist (weights on chest???) and i train them again after 60 hrs will the missing rest of 12 hrs destroy all progress like when i trained every day or will it just not be perfect?" I have started training with weights on the chest and use 12,5 kg on the chest and do three times 20 reps over 10 minutes then i take a break of half an hour and do that again... now you say my abs should rest to grow, but in the mean time can i do normal crunches?
ioioio Posts: 302 Joined: 2004/01/29	2004/02/03, 09:44 AM I thik you should rest. leave it alone for a few days!!!
	2004/02/03, 10:37 AM I think it is better to make an exercise continuous rather than stopping and starting as you describe. Also if you train abs with resistance they need rest. Most here agree that ab-resistance training can be done up to 3 days a week with a rest day in between. I have upped the intensity of my abs workout and dropped back to twice a week. Hope this helps. I have pretty good abs for a geezer...LOL -------------- Its like herding cats. Charlie
oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/02/03, 11:17 AM i understand that you should not train abs every day, but my actual question was if its an all or nothing question if you train your abs before they have had optimal rest will the progress be lost? Also the other question... i have heard over and over again that doing normal crunches doesnt build abs and only trim your stomach for fat... so by this rationel it would be ok to just make normal crunches say monday then heavy crunches with weights tuesday then normal wednesday heavy tuesday and so forth?
	2004/02/03, 11:59 AM If you overtrain you will either lose progress or not progress as quickly. You kind of have to judge for yourself if you are overtraining. You WILL NOT lose significant fat by stepping up the training.Abs will flatten out with diet more so than exercise. Resistance ab work will bring out the definition. Does that help?? -------------- Its like herding cats. Charlie
oerberg Posts: 9 Joined: 2004/01/22	2004/02/03, 12:08 PM Yes that helps i just had a hard time getting used to the fact that training constantly could be bad for progress...
MikeCan Posts: 91 Joined: 2003/12/04	2004/02/03, 01:25 PM After reading all this I am convinced! All future ab workouts will be done with resistance. Good stuff! -------------- Mike
ioioio Posts: 302 Joined: 2004/01/29	2004/02/12, 04:43 PM Good post, learned a lot from it!!!!