|
2007/05/15, 09:55 PM
You know it amazes me sometimes how this thing we call weightlifting is at once so simple and yet so complex. Sure we go in lift X amount of weight for X number of reps for X number of sets. That is at its simplest. I go in the gym a big guy neither concerned how I look or to look better. While right next to me is another big guy is striving to look better. The difference is that one of us wants to get freaky strong (me) and the other is all about getting 'better looking".
Neither of us is right or wrong. This path toward difference is at once the same and totaly different. THe BB can say all the want about getting stronger and all but while there are SOME BB that are as strong as a powerlifter by far there are more powerlifters that are looking like BB.
Why is this being posted? AND here on this forum? I have read a few posts asking about differences and seen posts that try to answr it. I am attempting to do so now.
I think in the end it all comes down to personal needs, wants and what is more a Philosophy. I think there are way more BB than powerlifters. Why? Cause we do not want to fit a norm. A media forced fed image that society thinks is the correct one. I for one have never fit into that image nor do i ever want to. There is nothing wrong in looking good do not get me wrong. But it is wrong to strive to gain that image cause society forces it onto us is wrong.
That is the difference between us and the rest of the Weightlifting community.
--------------
Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
|
|
2007/05/15, 11:13 PM
Excellent approach, Mutt! I like your thinking! I want to "look good" for my husband. He is happy with the way I am now but I have also seen the twinkle in his eye with my improvements. So, here is to overall health and being around the next 18 years to raise five more kids (first one just graduated...woohoo!)! Keep it real, mutt, keeping it real...great way to get everyone to check themselves!
|
|
2007/05/18, 06:25 PM
I agree to a point, but a lot of the powerlifter mentality starts becoming an excuse to be overweight. Even if you're training for absolute strength there's usually no reason to carry an excessive amount of fat. You start off your argument stating that there's nothing wrong with either method, then give reasons for why powerlifting is superior because that is what you do.
As for society pushing on us a standard of attractiveness, again I agree to a point. Obviously societal pressures have an effect on a lot of things but if you know anything about evolutionary biology there is more behind standards of attractiveness.
|
|
2007/05/18, 06:45 PM
No you missed the entire point, I said that there is nothing wrong with looking good...as long as it is for the right reasons and not an IDEAL that is forced onto us. Yes you can carry excess fat as a powr lifter....no where did I say one was better than the other...please refrain from putting words into my mouth thanks.
--------------
Curl Jockeys, get outta the squat rack!
I wish everyone would get a partial amnesia and never use 'tone' ever again. (thanks Menance)
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2007/05/19, 01:38 AM
I personally think I am at my most attractive when I am lifting heavy ass weights off the floor.
And where the hell is this generalization that powerlifters are overweight coming from?
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/19, 02:07 AM
i think its more that people not in the know generally picture a powerlifter as those heavy weights you see on tv and things like that. Just wondering what the lowest weight class actually was in powerlifting???
--------------
OBSESSION is a word the lazy use to describe the DEDICATED
|
|
2007/05/19, 02:29 AM
97 for female, 114 for male in the IPF.
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/19, 07:40 AM
wrestler...ive seen your pics... you look ugly when you lift heavy... hahahhahaa
|
|
2007/05/19, 11:50 AM
Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty much always sexy, but when I lift "heavy" it probably looks like your average warmup on the bar. ; )
--------------
I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
|
|
2007/05/19, 05:21 PM
"Some people train to look pretty. I just train so I can be the strongest man there is. But then again, I am already pretty." - Magnus Samuelsson
--------------
\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
|
|
2007/05/19, 08:04 PM
============
Quoting from coolnatedawg:
wrestler...ive seen your pics... you look ugly when you lift heavy... hahahhahaa
=============
anything that gets a white light is pretty enough for me.
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/19, 09:16 PM
Now you're putting words in my mouth. I never claimed that all power lifters are overweight. I merely stated that the anti-body builder mindset is often used by heavier power lifters to justify being overweight.
As far as the motivation for most power lifters it doesn't have anything to do with going against the grain of society. Some people lift because they want to get stronger, and some people lift because they want to look/feel good. It's not any different that any other sport. Some have the motivation to be competitive, and some don't.
|
|
2007/05/19, 11:56 PM
"I agree to a point, but a lot of the powerlifter mentality starts becoming an excuse to be overweight."
That's not putting words into your mouth. How bout you do yourself a favor and don't comment on what you don't understand. If you're not a powerlifter, you probably don't understand the mentality.
Believe it or not, it's not an "excuse". It's not a "justification".
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/20, 07:48 AM
Are you honestly going to tell me you know zero power lifters that eat whatever they want and are overweight, but say that since they're just trying to get as strong as possible it doesn't matter? Hell, even look at Dave Tate before he lost weight.
|
|
2007/05/20, 11:08 AM
what do you concider overweight?
Cause dave tate was never just a "fat ass"...just a big guy...
--------------
\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
|
|
2007/05/20, 12:12 PM
============
Quoting from retrofish:
Are you honestly going to tell me you know zero power lifters that eat whatever they want and are overweight, but say that since they're just trying to get as strong as possible it doesn't matter? Hell, even look at Dave Tate before he lost weight.
=============
Maybe you've never taken a linguistics course, or gone through high school, so I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt in trying to explain this to you...
Saying that an entire groups mentality is an excuse to be overweight does not mean that ONE powerlifter is overweight, it means that they ALL are overweight. In fact, the vast MINORITY of powerlifters are overweight. If you ever go to a powerlifting meet, you will see that the population that frequents these meets is generally in MUCH BETTER SHAPE THAN THE AVERAGE PUBLIC.
However, for powerlifters for whom total is all that matters, as opposed to total vs. weight class, many of them aim to weigh as much as possible in order to maximize the weight lifted. This isn't an excuse, its a means to an end.
Also, I've met Dave Tate, well before he quit powerlifting. Seeing as I'm pretty sure I'm the only person on this bord t have that honor, I'll tell you that while he is a monster of a man who carried a great deal of muscle, he never was as fat as many people who sit behind their keyboard and look at articles claim. I'm pretty sure when he was measured it was 18%.
And finally, seeing as your american, what "mindset" is it that this ENTIRE COUNTRY has that it is using to "justify" it's growing obesity?
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/20, 12:29 PM
Wrestler, why is that you are always the person that has to be a jerk on the boards?? Ever consider that if you replied with some politeness, you may get a better response??
I respect your knowledge of lifting and nutrition, but I have gotten to the point that I don't feel like reading through the 10 posts where you are criticizing someone or calling them an idiot, to find the one post with useful information!!
|
|
2007/05/20, 12:51 PM
Possibly because I'm not a big fan of sweeping generalizations, people that don't know what they are preaching, and chocolate protein shakes that taste nothing like protein.
Or it could be because most people just take me too seriously. My first post on the matter was more of a broad statement that was in complete rhetoric. I would have been completely happy to continue the discussion focused on how pretty I am while lifting...
And if you're worried about not getting the useful information, ask a question and if I think it is something I know anything about (yes, I avoid questions that I can't answer and that I think other people could answer better) then I might give a response. Better yet, send me a PM. I get many PM's a week from people that read the board but dont like to post, or don't like other people misinterpretting what they or I have typed.
I'll admit it, in many instances, I could have responded better. For example, looking at my last post, if I removed the first statement, it would have been a decent post. But that just wouldn't be my style.
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/20, 04:00 PM
There's no reason to twist my words into a broader context than I intended. All I'm saying is using the idea that looks and body fat are irrelevant and nothing matters but being strong can be detrimental to the average lifter's health. If you take a regular person and give them justification to eat mass amounts of food just because they're lifting weights they can gain unhealthy amounts of fat.
If you are telling me that you don't know any power lifters that lift as a hobby and don't particularly care about their body weight as long as they get stronger, then we will just have to agree to disagree. I personally know some of these people. If you want to question my wording or meaning question that, instead of attacking me personally.
Look, it's cool that you know a lot about training and spend time on an internet message board giving out advice occasionally. Whether or not you want to see it you have an undeservedly condescending attitude toward the vast majority of people you reply to. If you want to continue this or any discussion in a constructive fashion I will reply. Otherwise we can just drop it.
|
|
2007/05/20, 05:41 PM
I didn't twist your words at all. I quoted exactly what you said.
You never said it was one or two powerlifters. You said it was a mentality. I don't disagree with what you have said in your past 2 posts, but that is not what you were saying from the begining.
If a powerlifter thinks that gaining fat is going to make them stronger, than said individual is making a mistake. However, for a heavyweight lifter, a large caloric intake is virtually REQUIRED. I know a lot of powerlifters, but none of them that would think that.
However, this is not the point. Yes it can be detrimental to their health, however that does not make it an excuse, or a mentality. And if we want to base this off of Mutt's original post, I will go so far as to say that being a competitive bodybuilder can be AS unhealthy as being an overweight powerlifter. Dehydration, GH, drugs, diuretics, carb depleting, etc...
And while I may have come off as attacking you personally, I respect what you have to say or I would not have taken the time to respond. However, I do stand by my original statement that there IS a generalization about powerlifters being overweight, AND that you should not comment on a mentality you know nothing about. I would not pretend to understand the fundamental motivations of a bodybuilder or basketball player without having walked in their shoes.
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/20, 09:06 PM
============
Quoting from conan_0822:
Wrestler, why is that you are always the person that has to be a jerk on the boards?? Ever consider that if you replied with some politeness, you may get a better response??
I respect your knowledge of lifting and nutrition, but I have gotten to the point that I don't feel like reading through the 10 posts where you are criticizing someone or calling them an idiot, to find the one post with useful information!!
=============
Yes I agre some of his posts are harsh....however that just his personality or his style....in this forum there no BS or fluff in here. No one will hold your hand in here.
Wrestler has never been "mean" to a new poster...however he doesn't baby them either.
This is one of more the "serious" forums. With serious minded people....who take what they do serious. Weither it be for sports, powerlifting or strongman training. This is a way of life....not just about body image.
If you can't take the "tough love" in here.....then leave...and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
--------------
\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
|
|
2007/05/20, 10:47 PM
Sorry, couldn't let this one go. I met Dave Tate. Had a 20 min conversation with him. He was not overweight, but by his own admission he was out of shape. He told me he was embarassed by the fact he couldn't walk up a hill without getting winded. Wrestler, don't try to big time people just because you met or know someone.
|
|
2007/05/21, 12:22 AM
============
Quoting from conan_0822:
Wrestler, why is that you are always the person that has to be a jerk on the boards?? Ever consider that if you replied with some politeness, you may get a better response??
I respect your knowledge of lifting and nutrition, but I have gotten to the point that I don't feel like reading through the 10 posts where you are criticizing someone or calling them an idiot, to find the one post with useful information!!
=============
Yes I agre some of his posts are harsh....however that just his personality or his style....in this forum there no BS or fluff in here. No one will hold your hand in here.
Wrestler has never been "mean" to a new poster...however he doesn't baby them either.
This is one of more the "serious" forums. With serious minded people....who take what they do serious. Weither it be for sports, powerlifting or strongman training. This is a way of life....not just about body image.
If you can't take the "tough love" in here.....then leave...and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
=============
How about this? Everyone act civilized in here and stop whining like little female dogs?
If you can't post something constructive, I'll ban your ass... How's that for "tough love?"
--------------
Michael
Humble, even in Victory.
|
|
2007/05/21, 11:08 AM
Thanks Rev. That's basically all I was trying to get across!!!
|
|
2007/05/21, 12:22 PM
============
Quoting from gatormade:
Sorry, couldn't let this one go. I met Dave Tate. Had a 20 min conversation with him. He was not overweight, but by his own admission he was out of shape. He told me he was embarassed by the fact he couldn't walk up a hill without getting winded. Wrestler, don't try to big time people just because you met or know someone.
=============
I'm not big timing. Retrofish was trying to use Dave Tate as an example of an overweight individual. I disagree harshly with this point since I have seen him in person, and have also talked with him. I know you have met Dave, you've mentioned it before, I just assumed you were no longer posting on this board.
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/21, 06:14 PM
no one is whining...?
--------------
\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
|
|
2007/05/22, 06:08 PM
I will post where ever and when ever I feel the need to post. I still read this board every day. If I get enough motivation to type a post here then I will. Which point do you disagree with? Him being overweight or him admitting he was out of shape? He was not overweight. He was out of shape. There is a difference.
|
|
2007/05/22, 07:43 PM
Reread my post. While he was huge, he wasn't fat. I can't comment on his cardiovascular shape at the time, although in articles he has mentioned how he was out of shape.
I think part of the problem is that a lot of times people confuse being large with being out of shape. It is possible to be very heavy and still in great shape. Jesse Marunde comes to mind, as he is 320+lbs that would leave me in dust on a stairclimber.
--------------
Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
|
|
2007/05/23, 07:46 PM
I think I'm just not being clear at communication. You may still disagree with me, but here goes.
When I say power lifter or body builder, I'm not speaking about those that lift professionally or at high levels, because those aren't the people I know. More generally, what I mean when I say "power lifter" are guys at the gym training for strength, and when I say "body builder" I mean guys at the gym training for size. I personally know more than a few guys who use the fact that they are only concerned with strength to support unhealthy eating habits, and often unhealthy size. It obviously goes the other way as well, as I know guys interested in body building who justify being relatively weak by just pointing out how big they look.
|
|
2007/05/24, 04:03 PM
:)Thanks fo rthe entertainment, guys :) Sorry, but you are all arguing semantics and then you branch off into a spitting contest and still retrofish continues to try and clarify his point....
I agree, SOME people use being a powerlifter as an excuse to chow down too much and carry too much fat...I think this is less prevalent than it used to be as people realize that being fitter translates to being stronger...
As far as Bodybuilders - you have to lift heavy to grow...I know bodybuilders may not go as extreme as powerlifters and their workouts are different, but for the most part they are trying to put on muscle, which requires adding strength....
What a silly arguement, every gets so worked up....must be all the testosterone in here:big_smile:
Good to see you on the boards, gator:)
And sometimes Wrestler's condescending attitude can be a refreshing change, LOL.
Okay - rip me to shreds now, guys :cool:
--------------
Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak.
Thomas Carlyle
|
|
2007/05/24, 11:42 PM
Bodybuilder's use alot of excuses as well. They go through a "bulk" as well....some even doing a "dirty bulk."
Also "heavy" to a bodybuilder isn't "heavy" to a powerlifter. Completly different training.... apples and oranges
--------------
\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
|
