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2005/02/24, 01:51 AM
why do i get such bad DOMS grr can someone help me repair or heal faster??? im sick of it maybe im lacking some sort of vitamin? ???
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2005/02/24, 01:54 AM
or food? or sleep? i tried joga shit stretching workout sessions cardio some days cardio not... eating more arg i even have the shower above warm below hot hot level for 2 minutes then "cool" for 30seconds for a couple times even arg help me i hate DOMS i get it so bad maybe im workout to hard?? but its gotta b bs i go to gym in i can barely workout 2 times a week soemtimes and my brother goes there like 5 days a week + and makin bnetter gains then me arg i even have the stupid whey mixed with water after workout n just b4 i go bed eh im lost =\ someone help me with "Doms" lol bye
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2005/02/25, 09:39 AM
Are you stretching for a cool down? This will help a bit...Keep well hydrated...remember this can be a good pain...it means you are WORKING those muscles to a point that you are doing something to them. I look forward to the pain myself....I know that I have done a good job...just remember to do daily stretches...once your muscles are warmed up.
PAT
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2005/02/25, 10:21 AM
I work out very hard and have what I would call normal DOMS, but I understand it can vary with individuals. I read an article on taking vitamin C but I can't find it and am not sure if it will help. I would check with a herbalist. I have found, for myself, that by stretching when I finish one machine, just for a moment, and then doing proper warm up and cool downs for at least 6 minutes and finishing with a stretch that it has helped me from being VERY sore to what I, again, consider normal. The gym trainer suggested it when I first started, but I have heard controversy on this and weight training, so I am not an expert, I just gave it a try and it really helped me. The stretches are not bouncing, just a very mild stretch for 8 seconds. Lactic Acid (again, many opinions) is said to be the culprit of unnecessary DOMS. Drink a lot of water during your full workout and throughout the day so you are not dehydrating. Are you giong to the gym daily? I have found if I skip more than a day I am more sore. Are you getting enough rest time between lifting? I know you have been aroung FT for awhile, so you may have tried all of these things, can you write down what you are doing each day and post it so the experts here at FT can analyse and see if they have possible suggestions?
http://www.fit-at-home.com/delayed-onset-muscle-soreness.htm
http://www.ironmagazine.com/printout118.html
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Veda
MISERY IS OPTIONAL
***When you are up to your ears in trouble, try using the part that is not submerged.
***The difference between a dream and a goal is a plan.
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
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2005/02/25, 10:54 AM
You may want to do 10 min on the stationary bike after your workout.
This will get more oxygen to the muscles after your workout. Go at low intensity. Also, take a look at your PWO shake.
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Scales are for dead weight: We are not dead yet!
Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/02/25, 01:43 PM
stretching won't do much ..... if the miscle mirco tears are there.....stretching won't do much to help........a light jog....l glutmen.....rest....food is about all you can do.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/02/25, 04:45 PM
Good article on fatique, DOMS, and more:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/david36.htm
Stretching has been shown to decrease muscular soreness and stiffness and increases range of motion instantaneously. Stretching increases the blood supply to the muscles and joints, and that keeps them healthy, thus why I stretch and feel better. If I was to not stretch the following day after a workout, too, I would walk around like a monkey all cramped up.
I have also read that stretching and serious weight lifting has been known to add to injuries.
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Veda
MISERY IS OPTIONAL
***When you are up to your ears in trouble, try using the part that is not submerged.
***The difference between a dream and a goal is a plan.
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
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2005/02/25, 07:17 PM
i got a physical job so im moving around alot so my blood flow is always there during the day time, i read up on different sites and read about the blood flow, ill do that as a warmdown more often and see how it turns out, but one question to that do i have my PWO shake straight after workout after warmdown or can i have it after workout then warm down whilest drinking this PWO shake? i also got limited time in the gym room in my house as im kinda busy plus big family using the gym room after or b4 me thus limiting my time dramatically... so can i have my workout then drink my shake then go for a walk around block whilest stretching??? or as a warmdown cant i just... have a warm shower??
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2005/02/25, 07:32 PM
Yes you can take your shake imediatly post WO you can cool down by just taking a stroll (if its cool out side) and just do some light stretching and joint rotations, this will get rid of any waist products and adrenalin and calm you down a bit but remember DOMs is quite natural its the bodys response to unusual activity DOMS is a sign that what your doing is working. Your body is adapting to the exercise. How ever if your pain is directly after your WO then its not DOMS its AMS acute muscle soreness. (this is nearly always a result of lifting too heavy and not warming up properly). If its AMS then I would rest up and let the pain subside for a few days, when your ready go back to the gym and before you do a set of a particular exercise for instance dumbbell curls, use a much smaller set of DBs than normal and do three sets then go back to your normal DBs and do 3 proper sets this will insure that you have warmed up the targeted muscles properly. Do this for every exercise and don't forget on your heavier sets make sure the weight is not to high and your form is good, ask a trained member of staff to help you choose the correct plates. If its doms then it will start about 14 hours or more after your WO and should only be in the muscles you have trained if so enjoy it, it means your growing.
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2005/02/25, 08:58 PM
Why Try to Get Sore?
So if this is acute injury, then why do so many weight lifters strive to get sore? This is because of the theory that the breaking down of muscles results in cellular changes that strengthen and protect muscle fibers. Also, this breaking down leads changes in connective tissue in which intramuscular connective tissue is increased. Simply stated, the end result of DOMS is bigger and stronger muscles. In my opinion, that is what happens as long as the soreness is due to DOMS and not a tear or strain. Most say that repeated activity will lower the chances of experiencing DOMS, which is true. However, if you continue to increase the intensity of a workout, either by increasing the number of repetitions or amount of weight, you will continue to get sore.
from...sight
i'm never sore after my workouts and I make gains?
I no offense don't like this sight.....
I have read somwher eon this sight.....that stretching will not help in muscle soreness.......being sore is ither too much lactic acid.....or micro tears in the muscle. I don't see how stretching will help the micro tears or move lactic acid out of muscle...?
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/02/25, 09:09 PM
Sept. 6, 2002 — Contrary to popular thinking, stretching before or after exercise does not prevent muscle soreness or muscle injury, according to a systematic review of controlled trials in the Aug. 31 issue of the British Medical Journal.
"Stretching before or after exercising does not confer protection from muscle soreness," write Rob D. Herbert and Michael Gabriel from the University of Sydney in New South Wales, Australia. "Stretching before exercising does not seem to confer a practically useful reduction in the risk of injury, but the generality of this finding needs testing. Insufficient research has been done with which to determine the effects of stretching on sporting performance."
From a literature search, the authors identified five randomized or quasi-randomized studies of moderate quality which reported sufficient data on the effects of stretching on muscle soreness to be included in the analysis. Three studies evaluated stretching after exercising, and two evaluated stretching before exercising. Pooled analysis of data from 77 healthy, young adult subjects suggested that stretching produced small and statistically insignificant reductions in muscle soreness 24 hours after exercising, estimated to be only 0.9 mm on a 100 mm scale (95% confidence interval , -2.6 to 4.4 mm).
"Most athletes will consider effects of this magnitude too small to make stretching to prevent later muscle soreness worthwhile," the authors write.
Two studies on army recruits in military training showed that stretching before exercise insignificantly reduced injury risk by 5% (pooled hazard ratio, 0.95; 95% CI, 0.78-1.16). Because risk of injury in military recruits is high, approximately 20% over the training period of 12 weeks, a 5% reduction in relative risk implies a reduction in absolute risk of about 1%. The authors therefore conclude that the average subject would need to stretch for 23 years to prevent one injury.
"Although these data imply that the muscle stretching protocol used in these studies does not appreciably reduce risk of injury in army recruits undergoing military training, it is not possible to rule out with certainty a clinically worthwhile effect of other stretch protocols on risk of injury in other populations," the authors write. "It would be particularly interesting to determine if more prolonged stretching carried out by recreational athletes over many months or years can produce meaningful reductions in risk of injury."
In an accompanying editorial, Domhnall MacAuley, from The Queen's University of Belfast, and Thomas M. Best, from the University of Wisconsin Medical School in Madison, point out that much in sport and exercise medicine is not supported by research evidence.
"Stretching is long established as one of the fundamental principles in athletic care.... Sport is rife with pseudoscience, and it is difficult to disentangle the evangelical enthusiasm of the locker room from research evidence," they write. Other unanswered questions about musculoskeletal injury include the value of ice, compression, and elevation, as well as the optimal frequency and duration of these treatments.
"Much of sport and exercise medicine and the management of musculoskeletal injury has developed empirically, with little research evidence," they conclude. "Some of the basic principles of caring for acute injuries of the soft tissues have never been questioned, yet there is often little evidence to support common practice."
BMJ. 2002;325:451-452, 468-470
Reviewed by Gary D. Vogin, MD
***knew I read it somewhere
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/02/26, 11:54 AM
I'm definately not arguing, I wouldn't even begin to consider myself knowledgeable enough to do so, I just wanted to let it be known that there are many opinions, studies and articles on this subject. After hours and hours of reading and researching this area of to stretch, to not stretch when weight training, DOMS, Lactic Acid, etc. what I've learned is that there is an abundance of opinions and studies. I have read the one above many times.
I find the best way "I" alleviate the stiffness and soreness the morning after my workout is to stretch, to move around. Some individuals get sore and they sit on the couch all day moaning, I like to get up, stretch nicely, it feels better and I move better. I also love the feeling of stretching post workout. The gym trainer/owner who just graduated from years of schooling suggested I may alleviate some of the pain that can be associated with lactic acid by resting a moment and doing a light stretch between machines, so I tried it and it helps with that. I am not an expert, that is for sure, I have just simply stated this is what "I" do and it works absolutely great for me vs. not doing it. I cannot say that this combination is the answer, I just know that I don't suffer from terrible DOMS, it may be that I just don't. I know I push myself and the gym trainer is continually helping me to make sure I am.
I do not stretch prior to exercise and as this study states, it was done to evaluate the effects of stretching to avoid injury. I stretch to rid myself of possible lactic acid buildup and it feels great.
"Stretching before exercising does not seem to confer a practically useful reduction in the risk of injury, but the generality of this finding needs testing. Insufficient research has been done with which to determine the effects of stretching on sporting performance."
I would suggest anyone having questions do a search and read and good luck making a decision as the opinions vary greatly and continue to change, it is good to look into them to learn what you can and trying different approaches to see what works for you.
Here are some more sites, there are literally hundreds, maybe thousands, online and many books, many by professional bodybuilders, but this gives you an idea of the difference of opinion! :)
http://www.efit.com/servlet/article/cardio/19628.html
http://www.drmirkin.com/archive/6386.html
http://www.webefit.com/articles/article_07_pain.html
http://www.weight-training-guide.net/training/basics.asp
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Veda
MISERY IS OPTIONAL
***When you are up to your ears in trouble, try using the part that is not submerged.
***The difference between a dream and a goal is a plan.
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
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2005/02/26, 02:20 PM
bigandrew. If you are trying to sugest that someone go and lift a heavy weight with cold muscles then I think you better keep your advise to yourself, hey or pass it on to neov or did you get the info from him?. Any how lifting heavy weights without warming up is foolish and by most I would have thought not recomended. stretching after exercise is well known to be a good way to get rid of exhaust from the body.
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2005/02/26, 02:26 PM
All that data that you pasted was shown to be inconclusive.
Why do olympic athleates stretch and warm up before an event, oh maybe they dont have your wisdom.
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2005/02/26, 03:17 PM
Ok Ironmonga where is your evidence to the contray? Another member here Gatormade, who by the way is a strenght and conditioning coach as well as a powerlifter in his own right, has stated numerous articles and such to support that to take a muscle and stretch offers a greater chance for injury. That said he alos recomends as do I to do 5-10 minutes of light cardio to warm up. Lets remember to keep it civil as well ok guys?:big_smile:
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/26, 03:18 PM
And Veda what you are doing is known as active recovery. It is simply to lightly use the muscles that are sore. This can be done by walking swimming jogging etc....
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/26, 03:45 PM
Firstly I am not fighting the case for stretching, but if you are trying to say that warming up before exercise is not nesserccery than I will have to dispute it. and I have countless sources to back me up on this.
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:IJYj22vff1sJ:www.rfu.com/pdfs/technical_journal/sprintperformance.pdf+warm+up+muscle+et+al&hl=en
http://www3.baylor.edu/BUKarate/articles/warmingup.html
http://www.exrx.net/ExInfo/WarmUp.html
I could fill the screen with these if it would do any good.
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2005/02/26, 06:29 PM
hmm so back to my DOMS question... lol :big_smile:
I was searching around and have read numerous different articles some for some against stretching the above from andrew was actually written from a guy around my area so i kinda read that one long back :P anyway i went to doctors the other day and it took him a little while to get "blood" out of my vains so i was thinking i dont have enough blood floating around possibly which may be a reason of my DOMS / lactic acid build up so dramtically?? anyway ive decided that i will have a "cool down" period but previously i have found that warming up doesnt do a LOT of help to me but my body is usually warm as i just go straight in the gym after work... also since as it was hard to get blood out of my i was thinking of doing wierd sets for example
whilest Benching i might have
( After warmup or not )
set 1 - heavy set ( reps of 3, 5 or 6 w/e i do on the day)
set 2 - light set ( on different bench i own 2 bench's so i can move one to other without wasting too much time... anyway this set is more of a set to just pump blood into me NOT to exhaust me) then
set 3 - heavy set again
and so on for how long is neccasary
so i was considering doing sets like that inbetween to get blood flowing any suggestions on this??
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2005/02/26, 09:11 PM
I never said i didn't warm up......I do but as for stretching no........I don't stretch.....before I workout, or during my practices......but I do do 1 or 2 light sets to get blood flowing.........and I have never ONCE in the past 2 3 years been injured during a work out.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/02/27, 01:09 AM
recent research suggests that experienced lifters lose as much as 5% of their strength by doing static stretching before lifting...that does not mean you can't do dynamic stretching before lifting....gatormade posted it in power lifting forum so ironmonga feel free to check it out...what you're saying is old fashioned thinking that still persists to today...
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2005/02/27, 02:06 AM
Dynamic stretching? i think thats what i do... cuz usually when i warmup on bench i do like a 6 8 or 10 rep bench of like 50% as fast i can.. as my warmup i figured mayb i can get myself in right mindset and also warm me up a little anything wrong with that??
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2005/02/27, 04:52 AM
not at all...dynamic stretching is active stretching in the movement you're about to do...by performing the motion to be performed in the regular lift....Depending on the muscle group I do at least 1 warm up set with ~50% for 12-15 nice and fluid reps....this also allows me to judge how well/strong I am feeling on a particular day...
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