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2006/04/21, 04:04 PM
as strength goes up, power goes up. For those of you who are looking to increase your vertical jump this is for you. Learn how to squat properly. Do 6-12 sets of 2 with a light weight to learn the form. As you get stronger then figure out your 1-rep squat max. Then do six sets of 2 with 90% of your squat max with great form. Then do 3 sets of 1 with 95% of your squat max. Take 3-4 minutes between sets. This should be done about every 4 weeks with proper progression to it.
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2006/04/21, 04:08 PM
A workout might look like this:
weight x reps x sets w/TBS (time between sets)
Squat
90% x 2 x 6 w/3-4 min rest
95% x 1 x 3 w/3-4 min rest
Box jumps
10%bodyweight x 5 x 4 w/ 2min TBS
Lunge-twist
Medball @ 10% bodyweight x 5 x 4 w/2min TBS
Physioball Leg curl
BW x 10 x 3/1 min TBS
Calve Raises
5 x 4 w/2 min TBS
Roman Chair sit-up
10 x 3 /1 min
Back Hypers
10 x 3 /1 min
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2006/04/21, 04:09 PM
The big thing on vert is if you are just soley looking to increase the vertical then you must rest in the weight room for the big stuff. It is not always practical to train just for vert because sports have certain metabolic demands associated with them. I will post more workouts here to show you all some progressions to get to this point.
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2006/04/21, 10:51 PM
Great post. It is important to build this base of strength. A lot of guys want the answers to everything asap...but you've gotta crawl before you walk. I also think proprioception with ankles, rotator cuff, and the entire hip region need to be isolated and strengthened at every angle, especially for athletes. I know that's kinda gettin off subject as far as vert training goes, but it's somethin I've been thinkin about. Flexibility also should be emphasized.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/04/22, 11:39 AM
9 sets with 90%+? I'm going to have to say that this would burn me out rediculusly quickly.
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/04/23, 10:55 AM
This is how you develop maximal power. You don't do this all the time. Once a month with proper cycling of reps between sessions like this.
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2006/04/23, 11:02 AM
Why would it burn you out quick?
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2006/04/23, 11:05 AM
If you take appropriate rest during the squat session, followed the proper progressions to get there, not trying to do it all the time, and you are eating and sleeping properly then it will not burn you out. You do strongman events. That is a max effort every time you compete.
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2006/04/23, 04:50 PM
Ok, I read wrong. I thought you were recommending this as a regular part of a training session. Once a month would not be too taxing... However doing 9 sets at 90%+ would be overkill in my eyes, even IF it wasn't burning you out.
Many of the strongman events I consider submaximal effort (events for time) or repetition effort (press/pull for reps, tire flip for distance, etc.
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/04/23, 08:24 PM
Then apparently you have not seen the research on developing maximal power. Research is showing 6-12 sets of 90% and above on appropriate exercises. It works. Westside max effort days are similar to this. They get 3-6 efforts at over 90% every week. It works well. Why do you consider it overkill? You make a statement and yet I see no science to back it up.
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2006/04/23, 08:27 PM
Even repetition method is still a form of max effort. It is working to maximal effort. You telling me you never do this in strongman events? 90% can mean weight or volume. Effort is measured either way.
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2006/04/23, 09:16 PM
Hmmm, I've never thought about Max Effort in that way. I guess almost everything we do should technically be max effort. I dunno, honestly I can't say I've ever done that many sets with 90 percent, but it sounds like a good idea. I might have to try it sometime.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/04/23, 11:45 PM
Westside often preaches 3 sets of 90%+, occasionally as many as 6 for beginners.
90% effort in INTENSITY is taxing on the CNS.
The strongman stuff is not at 90%+, rarely is it done for maximal effort, whether you consider repetition a method of maximal effort or not, which I disagree with. Training is done for technique work. Strength is built in the weight room under our program. And when I do do attempts at 90% of anything plus, DE Me or RE, then I do not do 9 sets of it. I wont even get 9 sets of an event period, and strongman training can last a good period.
Show me the science where it says that 9 sets @ 90%+ is more beneficial than 3 sets...
Also, you have to be clear on 90%. 90% of a testing max or competition max will be very different. The russians use a competition max, where the bulgarians use a competition max. The result:4000 lifts @ or above 90% for bulgarian national level olympic weight lifters, while between 300-600 for the russians.
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/04/25, 06:37 PM
Westside talks about getting atleast 3 sets at or above 90%. If they can get more they get more. 90% at your max without gear. Maximal effort is anything done to failure. If you do traditional repetition method the way westside does it then you are going to take that to failure in one way or another. I have done this workout several times and I come away from it better than I was before I do it. My dynamic effrot goes up. My max goes up. And I know that this is taxing on the CNS. You have to tax it if your going to get better. THIS is why it is done 1 time every 4 weeks with proper progressions. 3 sets is fine for beginners. Plenty of research on 3 sets for beginners and its benefits. When you get more advanced you have to find away to still keep getting better. 3 sets does not cut it for advanced or genetically gifted athletes. Trust me on this. This program is being used by some of the top Olympic track and field athletes in the world. Charles Van Commenee is UK athletics' mulit-events and jumps coach. He coached Denise Lewis to gold in Sydney. He uses 5-15 sets with 1-2 reps at 90% or more. They get 3-4 minutes of recovery between sets. The proof is in the pudding. Case studies are still important research. Trust me when I tell you this works.
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2006/04/25, 06:47 PM
Westside uses repetition method and they do over 100 reps accumulated in some of their exercises. IF you do this right it is a max effort. If you don't take that into consideration then you are going to burn out quickly on that. Oh, and please don't talk to me like you have years stacked upon years of experience doing this. This is why I stopped posting here. Stop trolling my posts. I know what I am talking about.
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2006/04/25, 07:03 PM
No one is questioning what you know. If you have a problem with me questioning your posts the I am sorry, but I will not stop. This is how I learn, and how I get information.
Second of all, read my post. I said this would burn ME out rediculusly quickly. I know what works for me, screw the research. If you are training someone that does not respond to traditional methodologies of strength training, then are you going to continue to apply that methodology because it is SUPPOSED to work? I know for a fact you wouldn't, because if you did, you would be out of a job.
I do not doubt that you know what you are talking about, however, I am still surprised when you post programs here. How can you write a program not knowing anything about the type of ppl that will take your advice. A program that works for an olympic athlete will not necessarily be effecient for a high school athlete reading these boards. I'm watching over the training of an olympic hopeful as a pusher in the bobsled, and his training is far different from what I give to ordinary members of our weightlifting club.
Westside, Zatsiorsky, Siff, Verkhoshansky, et al. define the maximal effort method as the utilization of maximal LOADS, ie 90%+. This is what I assume you mean when you talk of max effort.
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/04/25, 10:00 PM
I think you both have good points. I'm not getting between this cuz you are two respectable and knowledgable athletes/coaches. Gator, I know you have tons of experience in school and in training athletes. It's what you do, and you do it on a high level. Wrestler, I know you do a lot of reading and have some good experience and are very involved in your everyday life. You both have respect for each other. One thing we all gotta keep in mind is that weightlifting, as researched and scientific and as planned out as it can get, is exactly that: SCIENCE. One thing about science, especially when referring to this subject is that it's always changing. We must keep this in mind and use each other to our advantage. There cannot be any disrespect here. A lot of popular beliefs and cutting-edge research of today might be the basics of tomorrow. While you both know your stuff, NONE OF US know it all, and we gotta just be open. Like I said, I'm not gonna get into this, but I just wanted to say somethin. Matt, I have a feeling that I was one of the people to piss you off at one point because I questioned you. Everyone on here knows that you know your stuff very well, but keep in mind we are all young and noone means disrespect and we do value your input.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/04/26, 12:20 AM
Just put the damn weights on the bar and lift 'em already.:)
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She sits and wonders why.....no more.
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2006/04/26, 04:51 AM
Gatomade it's good to have you back...I am not sure why you are getting upset....wrestler was questioning the concepts/research you presented not your qualifications...I thought it's one of the most vital things being able to defend your ideas as a S&C coach...this is how we all learn...I think it's great that wrestler got to a level where he can take any given information dealing with weight training and debate and question it so articulately...
Personally these are the types of issues people need to consider when they read posts...would X work for me...knowing everything I know about myself....I come across many suggested training routines...and using that mental check I immediately know that it wont work for me...despite being awesome routines for most people...doesn't mean cosgrove or whoever is wrong or I am questioning their credentials or accomplishments....
I am not sure 'trolling' is fair word choice in this instance......
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2006/04/26, 09:24 AM
"sniff sniff" why is it that spring time brings higher levels of Test out in guys!? LOL easy folks Gator and Wrestler just relax!
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
The Men and Boys are Separated by one thing: The Squat Cage!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2006/04/26, 09:47 PM
That's a good point Menace, and while a lot of things are personal (what might work for one person might not work for me), there are some absolutes, and one of them is that training with 90% for multiple sets generally does work for strength, especially for higher level athletes. While it may burn Steve (or whoever else cuz everyone's different) out, this workout is undoubtedly a good idea for most. Personally, I believe it to be something I could benefit from. I said I wasn't gettin between this, and I lied. Here's my two cents:
Steve, while everyone may be different, and everyone would benefit SO much more if every workout they did was completely customized to them, Matt was just posting a sample routine that could very possibly benefit someone. I don't think it's questionable that he posts workouts because he's just being helpful by posting samples, and he emphasizes proper progression, not just jumping into it...at least give him enough credit to post a sample workout, it's not like he's saying "If you want strength in your squat, you must do 6+ sets with 90%."
Matt, while we know you have your degrees and a high job in this business and are very experienced, it still is vital that we can question you. Like they said, it's how we learn and help each other. While you may be the man when it comes down to it, you still could learn from us in one way or another as well. There are some guys on here who have a passion for this stuff and are probably more knowledgable than you think. It is awesome to have you posting on here, so don't let anyone discourage you from posting because it is valued.
I hope I didn't step on anyone's toes (If I did you got PMS or somethin), just tryin givin you my opinion about the whole thing. It's probably way blown outta proportion anyway.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/06/08, 06:15 PM
Don’t Short Circuit Your Training
By Jim Bryan
Posted on NaturalStrength.com on January 10, 2005
One of the biggest problems I see is Over Thinking Things. Much of the time this leads to Analysis Paralysis. This is where you spend more time thinking about doing something, than you actually spend doing it. How much does it matter about the speed of a rep? Does it matter more then actually going to the gym and having a workout? How much does it matter what “Camp” you’re from? Is that more important then getting to the gym? About “Camps.” How important is it really to identify yourself as a “Volume Trainee”, a “Power Lifter”, an “Olympic Lifter”, A “HIT Trainee?” Who are you training for? Yourself or the approval of someone else? Training isn’t really all that complicated. Some would have you think that it is, so they can sell you on Their Method. So much information and so little time. Might as well use that time by going to the gym.
When you go to most discussion boards you have the group looking for the “One best way to train” and the one’s that just like to argue that “Their way is the one true way.” Ever wonder if the same one’s that “Know the One best Way” are just as confused as you? Many are and will argue for something else down the line. You also have the most Dogmatic types that will continue to argue long after their arguments are invalid. They are also confused and need to be in the gym, instead of cruising the “Boards” so they can argue for their way, “The one best way.”
There is NO one best way! People have different goals. What works for you is what keeps you going to the gym and enjoying the trip there. Different ways of training have different levels of safety. Educate yourself, form an opinion and then follow through. The simplest way to Strength Train is to pick a group of exercises Starting with the legs and working to the upper body. Go up in weight when things get easy. Machines or Free Weights? What do you have? If you have both, try both. Try to be in and out within an hour. Like “One set Training?” Then do it. Want to use “more than one set?” Then do that. Don’t fret and worry if someone is going to disapprove. It’s your workout! Go to the gym two or three days a week. You can add some cardio if you want. Cut down your rest periods and you may not need much cardio. Do it for yourself, because you want to. Live long……..be strong!
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First off, I only get this way when people come at me the wrong way. A better way is to ask me questions when I post. Don't try to debate if what I post works. I know it works or I would not waste your time. Ask me questions. I appreciate a good debate. Just come at me the right way. I have earned that right on this board. Thanks.
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2006/06/08, 11:18 PM
It's great to have you back, and that's a good article. There's an awful lot of gym rats out there that are very strong and ripped and have never heard of Westside Barbell or even thought much about what they do. They just work their tales off for the love being in shape and working hard. It seems every time I try to stick to some "exact" program, I always end up changing it to suit me or to where I'll enjoy it more because if you're doin a routine that you love with 100% effort, you're gonna get better results than if you do somethin that you don't even know or like at 80% effort and you dread going. Somethin everyone can think about.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/06/09, 01:57 AM
Great article, G. I suggest posting it in another part of the community so more people can benefit fron it (since so many are scared to come into this thread...LOL).
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Michael
Powerlifters -
We eat raw meat, and sleep naked in the snow...
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2006/06/09, 09:17 AM
that's why I like it lol
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2006/06/09, 06:49 PM
LOL
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2006/06/11, 03:04 PM
It's not a matter of being scared to come into this thread or forum.....as much as it's a matter of just not wanting to lower yourself to the level of some of these guys who think they know everything and are so narrow-minded, that even when they're wrong they can't admit it. Ego freaks in other words. I'm in this forum all the time, but I don't post because it's more fun to sit back and WATCH the petty arguments than it is to participate.
That article is hands down the best one I've read in here in a good while. Excellent post Gator.
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Days go by and life drags on.....
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2006/06/11, 04:07 PM
There are hardly any arguments here ever cuz no1 really posts here...
it's probably due to the fact that most people on this site are not after sports performance or powerlifting aspects....they just want to look good....so this is why they go to other forums...
I for one dont miss questions about wanting bigger chest, 6packs, and 20 inch arms...or how to 'tone' one's butt and thighs....esp when guys ask it...
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2006/06/11, 04:50 PM
Amen menace.
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Iron and chalk.
Pain is only temporary, it is in your mind. If you can still walk, then you can still run.
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2006/08/07, 09:06 AM
Top Five Max Effort Mistakes
By Jim Wendler
For www.EliteFTS.com
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I’m a big believer in max effort training, and I believe it’s made a big difference in my training. We’ve talked a lot about how beneficial max effort training is if you want to become strong. However, mistakes can hinder your progress. Here are the top five max efforts mistakes.
Not enough volume
When doing max effort, most people are so paranoid about not hitting a record that they forget that max effort is about training, not about testing. Because of this, the number of heavier sets (in this case 90 percent and up) is usually very limited, usually to only one or two sets at or above 90 percent. However, I have found that most people need to get at least three lifts at or above this. This can be done several ways.
One way is something like this:
· 1x5 @ 50%
· 1x3 @ 60%
· 1x2 @ 70%
· 1x1 @ 80%
· 1x1 @ 90%
· 1x1 @ 95%
· 1x1 @ 100%
Here is another variation:
· 1x5 @ 50%
· 1x3 @ 60%
· 1x2 @ 70%
· 1x1 @ 80%
· 1x1 @ 90%
· 1x1 @ 100 %
· 1x1 @ 90-95%
And finally, here is another:
· 1x5 @ 50%
· 1x3 @ 60%
· 1x2 @ 70%
· 1x1 @ 80%
· 1x1 @ 90%
· 1x1 @ 90%
· 1x1 @ 90%
There are a lot of possibilities and different ways to achieve the goal. However you do it, make sure that you get at least three lifts above 90 percent.
Awful form
On many max effort lifts, your form is going to be a little messed up. You’re going to be straining and squirming, and many times your body is going to be contorted into positions that are better suited for circus freaks. I have seen it, and I have done it. Now, there is a difference between having form that is ok and form that is dangerous. If you feel that your form has deteriorated to the point that you may get hurt, it’s time to shut down, or take some weight off the bar. Nothing gets accomplished with bad form, and nothing gets accomplished when you are hurt.
You can either film yourself, or let your training partners monitor you. If you are a veteran lifter, you will know when your form breaks down. This is when you have to be smart and listen. Don’t let your ego get in the way.
Too much variety
In the age of boards, boxes, bands, chains, and floor presses, there seems to be an endless amount of options for lifts. This is a welcome relief to many people who have been doing the same workout and the same exercises for years. Unfortunately, this variety can also be detrimental. With so much variety, most people can’t gauge how strong they’re getting or which lifts are working and which are not. A good rule of thumb is to have 3–4 max effort lifts for the bench press, three for the squat, and three for the deadlift. Stick with these exercises for at least four months, and then see how you are doing.
Here are some ideas:
Max effort bench press
· Two-board
· Three-board
· Floor press
· Incline press
Max effort squat
· Safety squat bar box squat
· Cambered bar box squat
· Buffalo bar box squat
Max effort deadlift
· Reverse band deadlift
· Rack deadlift
· Deadlifts off elevated platform (2–4”)
No grip variation
When I first started doing max effort work for my bench press, all of it was done with a close grip (index finger just outside the smooth part of the knurling). I made progress, but stalled out after about a year. Needing a change, I widened my grip, and my lifts went up. Now, this is not a rallying cry for everyone to widen their grip. But I think that too many people stick with one grip on each bench press variation and rarely change.
So how do you do this?
Let’s say that you use the four max effort exercises for the bench press listed above (floor press, incline press, two-board, and three-board). Each exercise is done for 1–2 weeks each. Do two cycles with a close grip. This will last 4–8 weeks depending on how long you stay with an exercise. After this period, perform the same exercises, but use a wider grip. This will allow you to set and attempt to break records for each lift with each grip.
Not recording your progress
Unless you have a great memory, it’s almost impossible to remember all of your max effort records. This becomes especially difficult if you use chains/bands on some lifts. And why waste mental energy on something that you can easily document? One of the best ways to monitor your progress is to use a grease board. List your max effort lifts on one side and your records on another. Only list the max effort exercises that are used most often to prevent your record board from getting too cluttered.
By keeping accurate records of your max effort progress, you can have something to shoot for on every max effort workout. This will also allow you to see your progress and either make changes or keep forging forward with your training.
If you don’t have the opportunity to use a grease board, a simple spiral notebook will do.
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2006/08/07, 09:07 AM
Jim says "at least 3 sets at or above 90%" This is the bare minimum of max effort sets in this range. Depending on your level of training it could be between 3-9 sets as long as your form does not break down.
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2006/08/09, 11:28 PM
hmm good read......however some clairfication(sp) should I do all 4 of those max efforts during one week?....2 on max day.....the other 2 on the speed day?
Seems like alot to do on one day?
thought the usual westside templete was 1 max effort...1 weakness 2-3 acessories
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/08/09, 11:44 PM
Each max effort day is one of those four max effort movements.
Speed bench day should be a form of bench, using 3 different grips (close competition wide).
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/08/10, 12:01 AM
ahh ok..fixing to say thats like a metal metilita workout ...I wouldn't be able to move my arms for 2 days
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/08/10, 12:06 PM
I was under the impression...that training at 90% and above for more than 6 weeks....burns you out, lose of cordnation etc.?
if i did 2-3 sets over 90% for 6+ weeks....woudl that not burn me out?
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/08/10, 04:23 PM
thats why you change it up. each week (or so) a new movement. also thats where the need for an off week or a deload week comes in to give you some rest. when i was doing westside i would occasionally do overhead or back work instead of chest (ie BORs, or OHpress instead of bench). that way you give yourself time to recover.
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2006/12/12, 02:17 PM
bump
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