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2004/11/17, 10:08 PM
I have some strong muscles, but my shoulders are my weakest. I can only max out at 146 lbs in the military press. And whenever i do a shoulder workout, i never feel the burn or the pump in the muscle, and i have good form. I always put form first, because in lifting, form is everything. I never get the soreness in my muscles after the workout. I dont FEEL it when im working the shoulders. I want to be able to get my max military press up there. Help!
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2004/11/17, 10:28 PM
Well several things
3 muscles of the delts make up the deltoid, if one is strong and the other isn't it may hammper you a bit. Not neccasly strength wise but stability wise.
May fave thing to do for this is lateral 21s
7 rear laterals( usually the weakest in most people)
7 side laterals ( 2nd weekest)
7 front laterals( strongest)
key here is no rest, do that back to back rest a min do it a few more times, usually only 3 total for me.
Military just isn't about delts but triceps too.
Over head, extensions bb,db or pretcher bar will help with this.
militaries
my personal all time favorite is the arnold press, I alwasy do a few in every workout for shoulders, somtimes 1st lightly to losen up, or last to burn out.
db mil. are ok, they do alow you to help bring up a lagging side, or do one arm at a time.
I take it you mean bb though, SO I would try these for somthing new
Balastic mil. get in a smith machine, do about no more that 50% of your max, go full range, but at the top, SHOVE it out of your hands, let it go, then recatch. KEEP IT LIGHT to avoid injury. The extra explosen at the top wel help you push through the sticking point usually around your head.
over head press
do this in a power rack, load a bar with about what you normally do for military, once you can't do them propperly , use you legs to shove it up(cheat a lil), help you get 2 or 3 more reps. Also can be done with dbs. YOu can in theory do a lil more weight, with the add of your legs, but don't over do it.
partial military...ntto a big fan but it may help, and will help your tris as well Same as a pratial bench, but come to about you forehead instead of chin area.
If you access to some bands, you can do band military, which is my favorite. Gets heavier as you lock out, and you really have to drive.
Don't do all these excercises, but peak maybe one or 2 "power" ways, and do the 21's somthing like this...
db 21sx3
military 10 8 6 4
arnold press 3x10
balistic press 4x6( 15sec rest in between)
or
arnolds 10,8,6,4
21sx2
partials 5x5
hope this helps
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/11/17, 11:32 PM
Have a partner help you....load up a weight maybe 10-15% or more heavier than you know you can do yourself. Now, seated is a good way, have your partner assist you so you are not really lifting in the up portion much, and then hold and lower very, very slowly, letting the heavy weight really "eat" into your shoulders. This isometric/static contraction will force the muscle to respond. Eat, eat, and eat.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/11/19, 12:37 PM
hey bb i read somwhere, that you should perform shoulder excercises without spots,meaning to do what you can do by yourself, cause putting that much stress on the shoulder can really damage it, cause its so sensitive of an area?
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/11/19, 04:26 PM
andrew is ballistic training related to dynamic training with bands?
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2004/11/19, 06:47 PM
?????? You just have to be smart. Incorporated into your normal training regimine, it is like anything...overload to grow.
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Quoting from bigandrew:
hey bb i read somwhere, that you should perform shoulder excercises without spots,meaning to do what you can do by yourself, cause putting that much stress on the shoulder can really damage it, cause its so sensitive of an area?
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/11/20, 12:39 AM
kev99,if I was you I would concentrate on the front military press more than your other exercises,because thats your main thing you like,if you want to lift more on that exercise,make it your play toy,the trapezius muscle plays an important roll to,be shure to add these in there to,as well as your neck muscles.
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2004/11/20, 11:31 PM
To get good/great strength gain do this...
for any exercise you want...but mostly compound
3-5 working sets
1-5 reps
5-30 min between sets rest...this sounds rediculous but it's not...I even recently heard in Men's Health a study that confirmed this...longer rest periods between sets gives greater strength gains..and those guys don't even do real powerlifting training...do higher reps...so when you combine long rests with low reps...u get great strength gains...
I first heard of this from a guy in the 1950s who did 10 sets of squats with 1 rep...rested 30 minutes between sets..
drank gallon of milk every workout...he was unofficially doing 1200+...even came to soviet union to do a strongman exhibition....gl
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2004/11/21, 11:35 AM
menace? 30min rest breaks.....i'm sorry but no, he would be in the gym for fraking 4 hours just to do military. And I have a sub. to mens health......I never read that, if so it was prolly abotu one rep maxes, not doing 8 reps, rest 30 mins then doing 5......thats just stupid and poinless and a waste of time.
You say you read that in mens fitness or from the guy in the 1950s? Cause one you don't look that old.
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/11/22, 03:33 AM
andrew...my age has 0 to do with anything...mens health is 1 of x things i read...so don't judge my knowledge by that magazine...
paul anderson....see for yourself...strongest squatter ever...
http://www.mcshane-enterprises.com/ASL/anderson.html
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2004/11/22, 05:21 AM
http://www.cbass.com/ANDERSON.HTM
^ here you go...rested 30 minutes between sets...which proves to be the best you gotta be the most dedicated(perhaps have life outside of lifting...but that a separate issue...lol)
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2004/11/22, 11:13 AM
Said he squated 1200 somthing, of half dollars, sorry to say big difference with weights hanging down from a bar, than being on it. He even admited it too that it was too easy. And he did 1800 somthing with quater squats, not denying hes strong, cause he is/was. I'll admit I may be wrong on the rest issue however, he's was a professional powerlifter, working out 6 days plus a week. BIG differance there and the averge joe, looking for a few extra pounds on the military.
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/11/22, 06:00 PM
original post was about improving the max...and this is the best response i could find...granted he doesn't have all day...but most people wait 30 sec to 2-3 minutes....so why not just wait 10 minutes between heavy compound sets...yes he'll end up spending 30 min on 3 sets...but he can do other exercises with less rest...he can also work out other bodyparts with this time...if he so wishes...the time could be used to rest a particular bodypart being training very intensely...so while he waits 10 min+ between squat sets, he could do bicep curls or maybe crunches...or whatever else...but i just thought to make max gains this type of training is best...and almost never used...
andrew...yes he didn't do 1200 prolly to the strict standard of today...but he did 900 for 10 reps...with parallel squats in a day when 580 or something was the max...what does that say...to be able to do quarter reps with almost a ton on your back is insane....imagine just being able to lift that weight off a stack....this was 5 times his bodyweight...
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2004/11/22, 06:27 PM
10 reps in the squat with 600, rest for about 30 minutes, and then do a second set of 10. After another 30 minutes rest, he would increase the weight to 825 and do three reps, rest again and do two more reps with 845. Then he would rest again and conclude by doing half squats with 1200 for 2 or 3 reps and quarter squats with 1800.
Menace I never saw where he did that much weight that many times, this is the only thing close to that.
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/11/22, 06:29 PM
If you're trying to improve just one lift, try "greasing the groove". Find the definition in this passage:
• Practice must be specific, perfect and frequent. Stop practice when it becomes less than perfect. Multiple sessions of perfect reps is better than one long session of sloppy reps and training to failure.
• To illustrate, Pavel told the story of a 132 pound client of his who could only bench 140 pounds. The client took the perfect practice stuff to heart and placed a bench press in his kitchen. Every time he walked by he did one perfect set, multiple times per day. Now he can bench 295 at the same bodyweight. The same guy can squat over 600 at 132 pounds.
From this article:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do;jsessionid=AE870BF48243D0315070F75E8CACF657.titan?id=522629
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Tom
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2004/11/22, 06:31 PM
• If you're trying to do more push-ups, don't do 20 reps to failure. Instead do sets of 10 spread throughout the day. Grease the groove. It will feel easy and your max push-ups will increase rapidly.
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Tom
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2004/11/22, 06:43 PM
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Quoting from menace3000:
5-30 min between sets rest...this sounds rediculous but it's not...I even recently heard in Men's Health a study that confirmed this...longer rest periods between sets gives greater strength gains..and those guys don't even do real powerlifting training...do higher reps...so when you combine long rests with low reps...u get great strength gains...
I first heard of this from a guy in the 1950s who did 10 sets of squats with 1 rep...rested 30 minutes between sets..
drank gallon of milk every workout...he was unofficially doing 1200+...even came to soviet union to do a strongman exhibition....gl
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:laugh::laugh: That's ridiculous dude, i'm sorry but you need to stop quoting mens health magazines and others like it. Just because the strongest man did it back in th 50's when very little was known about this sport doesn't mean that formula will work for everyone. Second, bodybuilding is different from powerlifting. Third GENETICS plays the biggest role most likely thats what that guys body was meant to do lift heavy. Fourth Gatormade told you about the 5-30 min. rest periods not being right. Fifth i beleive he also pointed out that the guy was not doing a FULL squat only a 1/4 squat. Sixth please try think more before posting suggestions such as to rest 30 min. between sets for the average guy not a professional or what not to do i mean you would be in the gym for hours and you would go into a catabolic state ect ect......
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2004/11/22, 09:55 PM
Nice. when i lift, i like to do 7 reps minimum, cuz thats when i start to feel the shock in the muscles. This is some good stuff. By the way the other day on my shoulder workout, i really felt the pump.
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2004/11/22, 11:09 PM
david, I belive that to a point however, when your body adapts and it will, what next? You will just simply overtrain. You you want him to do 10 military presses every hour? Yes it will work, but eventually he will over train, and need several months off just to recouperate. This makes no sense, and to me is going backwards whwere he wants to be.
2nd if that sotry where true of 132lb guy squating 6hundred, I garentee he'd be a power lifter now. BUt intresting enough he never said anything abotu how he got to that squat only the bench????
3rd if that web sight is what I think it is, if its like the mag, all the mag talks about is juicing and how to juice, but I could be wrong. OF coarse I could be wrong.
4th and last if it worked that well, then I would have herd abotu this training awhile back.
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/11/23, 02:42 AM
http://www.mcshane-enterprises.com/ASL/anderson.html
Squat: 900 pounds for 10 reps, John Grimek was a witness to this
'The rest is history. He squatted 900 while still an amateur and later did a legendary 1200 pounds for two reps as a pro. In all fairness, it must be said that there is some question if the 1200 went past parallel. But the 900, done without wraps or squat suits of any kind, was all the way down.'
justin you should read my posts more carefully...first off kev asked how he can improve his max the fastest way..
well you go about it training like a powerlifter...
then i take who i consider one of the top powerlifters/strongmen ever...look what he did...and suggest that....
but notice how i said 5-30 min...meaning if you don't have all day...ie have a life....do 5 minute rests....with this training i am sure he could still lift in an hour..
and as much respect as i have for gator and value his opinion...he's 1 person...he's not god who came down and laid the law...so pls put him in his proper perspective...yes he knows a lot...but if some1 using this unique training acheived great results...why not try it...before saying it doesn't work...not having time is not 'proof' it doesn't work
genetics are not the answer/excuse to everything...i am sure people over the years have come as gifted or more so than him...training techniques...supplements/steroids evolved greatly...in his day there were none....he pionered his training methods...and supplementing meant eat like a horse....period...
for christ sake justin forget your mens health i barely read that magazine...there are x sources i read for info...
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2004/11/23, 03:19 AM
It just seems you quote mens health magazine quite a bit thats why i said that but i do understand you get your knowledge from other sources but that seems to be the one you quote the most. Also I never said Gator was god but last i read you said you were new at this and still learning and gator has a lot more experience and cradencials than you he is a stregth trainer and coordinator at a major university, so if it came down to it i ould take his advic over yours...thats all i'm sayin. Also those kind of rest periods are for pros and such kev is an 18 year old kid who wants to get stronger at his age he should just lift heavy and eat eat eat....thats all....:dumbbell:
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2004/11/23, 12:26 PM
How are you currently doing the military: Free weight barbell (front or rear); Smith; Hammer Strength?
The training mentality for the military is similar to training any of the other compounds lifts. Speed, angles, auxillaries, etc.
I'll go find one of my routines when I was pursuing a max in the miltary, and send it to you.
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Quoting from kev99:
I have some strong muscles, but my shoulders are my weakest. I can only max out at 146 lbs in the military press. And whenever i do a shoulder workout, i never feel the burn or the pump in the muscle, and i have good form. I always put form first, because in lifting, form is everything. I never get the soreness in my muscles after the workout. I dont FEEL it when im working the shoulders. I want to be able to get my max military press up there. Help!
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Michael
Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!
Chaos, Panic, Disorder.... Yes, my work here is done!
rev8ball@freetrainers.com
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2004/11/23, 03:15 PM
justin...look at how gator phrased it...it didn't sound like a very surefire answer...'i don't think it will work..but it's different for everyone'
and you know what? it is different...because i personally rest at times 30 minutes between sets and do get fantastic results...so i really suggest you try to do it..before saying it doesn't work or it's outrageous...perhaps you yourself can make great gains...i don't use this rest interval between all sets..but it's amazing for heavy compound movements...deadlifts, squats, bench, etc...because of my long rest intervals like this i often avg 2 hours at the gym(on arms/shoulders days i avg hour)...not that bad...and it's proven effective for me so far...
so for kev...something to what i suggested might look like this
sitting barbell/db press
(12* 1 minute rest,5 5-10 minute rest,3 5-10 minute rest,2 2-5 min rest)
standing DB lateral raises
(12*,5,3,2)1-2 minutes between sets
standing front raises
(12*,5,3,2)1-2 minutes between sets
which comes out to about an hour...or less
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2004/11/23, 07:40 PM
I am doing them front, with a barbell. Start at upper chest, raise the weight all the way up ( until the shoulders lock out), and back down to the upper chest. Repeat
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2004/11/23, 07:46 PM
Rev is right...for instance, to emphasize medial delts, bring the bar down only to chin level. There are many different aspects that can be applied to standard military press.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/11/25, 09:21 AM
Bigandrew: You obviously can't take the grease the groove thing to excess, it's just a tool you can use for a little while to improve a lift. You have to be realistic about it, like you can't be doing bench press 6 times a day 7 days a week. And like anything else, ofcourse your body will adapt.
As per the mag, I suggest you check it out. Obviously the main purpose of the site is to sell its products, but the articles are free to read and can be quite informative. They have very little to do with taking steroids, although from time to time they will broach the subject. Which I suppose is good for some people as the reality is that a lot of people do juice.
In all I like to read the mag (t-nation.com), but I just do it to get a good source of info. It's not something to be followed religously, or else you'll end up with a cupboard full of their products.
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Tom
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2004/11/26, 05:28 PM
t-nation has decent articles...read them once in a while...i don't focus on steroid aspect of it because if they suggest a good exercise....it's a good exercise despite steroids...just gotta think critically and cut down on volume maybe or increase recovery...damn juicers :laugh:
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2004/11/29, 12:35 PM
You do that work out?
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/11/30, 04:11 AM
with 2nd sample of weights and sets...I'd guess u're doing between 550-650 bench press?
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2004/12/05, 12:52 AM
i have left my shoulders untrained for a couple of years...because at first I was doing incline bench...so i thought it nice 'compromise' between chest and shoudlers because i had little time....then i switched to regular bench and didn't hit my shoulders at all pretty much....so now I got such a huge disparity...I am wodnering what to do...for a weight i can bench press almost 25 times, i can barely get it up once on shoulder press...any advice on how to bring it up? what kind of rep scheme do u recommend?
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