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2005/10/12, 08:46 PM
I was just reading an article on using bands and chains to increase vertical leap, and was pretty suprised by it. Here it is:
Bands and chains, by their very nature, actually
decrease power output the higher the athlete
jumps.
Big claim - but here's why:
The higher the athlete squats using bands and
chains, the greater the resistance. The greatest
load is actually at the *top* of the motion.
This is not the case in a natural jumping motion.
Same goes for the bench press...
In nature, the greatest load bared is at the
*bottom* and/or mid-range of the movement, not
the top.
Training with bands/chains effectively teaches an
athlete to become *slower*, the higher they rise
in the jumping motion!
The problem here is that a vast majority of
athletes need to *increase* speed the higher they
progress through the motion.
This is *exactly* why pool work is so vital in
effectively re-creating the natural jumping
setting (especially when done to a specific
frequency) - all without the bone-crunching
pressure of carrying gravity!
Because of the water, you actually decrease load
bared the higher you jump - and this is ideal for
increasing vertical jump explosion!
This is what I call "Progressive Acceleration" and
it's something I discuss and teach in Volume 1 of
my system.
It's a also a reason why so many of my athletes
are known as 'fast' jumpers.
Clearly then, the problem with bands and chains
is that they encourage progressive *de*celeration,
which means you a likely to:
-1-> Jump slower
-AND-
-2-> Jump lower!
** Who wants to do that?!?! **
The solution:
-- Don't Use Bands And Chains --
I don't know about all this stuff, because I thought bands and chains (esp. bands) teach you to accelerate out of the hole in squats, and to explode the bar off of your chest on bench. What are yall's thoughts? I would normally say that this is nonsense, but the guy who wrote this article is one of the most knowledgable guys I know about increasing your vert.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/12, 08:50 PM
An idea that I had about this is using the bands in a reverse manner i.e. strapping the bands around the top of the cage for the "progressive acceleration" idea to simulate the vertical jump.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/12, 11:54 PM
Is that why when i use chains for a while and then take them off the bar goes up faster and i dont slow down on the lockout.
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2005/10/13, 01:10 AM
"Training with bands/chains effectively teaches an
athlete to become *slower*, the higher they rise
in the jumping motion! "
If your moving slow.....then your using to much weight.
Point is to make the EFFORT to move fast....
I mean if it didn't work that well......then alot of powerlifters wouldn't be lifting near as much.
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/13, 02:03 AM
who exactly is this knowledgeable individual, because his research is flawed and he makes very jumpy assumptions. (pardon the pun)
yes, bands train you slower than freeweight, but the important part about training with bands and chains is they teach you to accelerate THROUGH the motion, not just at the bottom part.
Besides, compare an athlete in a pool to an athlete with bands, and the load is greatest at the top in both instances... I dont know, maybe he shouldnt train in a pool either???
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/13, 02:38 AM
sometimes it boggles my mind the stuff some 'experts' in their fields say about things they are supposed to be knowledgeable on....simply amazing...I am glad we got such a forum to discuss these things so that we don't fall for this crap....
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2005/10/13, 11:52 AM
Does he also know water displaces weight?
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/13, 01:28 PM
============
Quoting from bigandrew:
Does he also know water displaces weight?
=============
exactly, which is why the weight to position curve for jumping in water is similair to the curve for squatting with bands.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/13, 02:48 PM
I was thinking more alone the lines that you "weigh" less in water....since your boyant.....but that works too.
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/13, 06:21 PM
Yes. Maybe I should explain better.
The strength curve for training with bands is minimal at the bottom of a squat, but approaches its maximal output at the top.
However, while squatting in water prior to a vertical jump, you weigh the least at the bottom of the squat, because this is where you displace the most water. Also, the water acts as resistance, slowing you down as you accelerate through the water, acting much as bands or chains.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/13, 06:22 PM
ALSO, did anyone else happen to notice how while he can give his theories and generalizations, he fails to produce a single shread of scientific evidence or training experiance to back up his claims.
That is exactly what this is, a claim, and that is exactly how it should be taken.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/13, 09:45 PM
yea after I wrote that it made sense....after it hought about it for a sec
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/13, 09:51 PM
I tend to very much agree with you guys over him. His name is Luke Lowrey and he is the inventor of the "Double Your Vertical Leap Systems". Whether or not he is right on this subject, Luke is without a doubt going to be one of the guys to revolutionize training in the future, and you can mark my words. I bought his system some odd months ago and it has made more of a dramatic difference on my jumping than ANYTHING, and I've tried everything else. Luke invented something called UPN technology. It completely customizes your sets and reps of power output exercises to your abilities and it works like NOTHING else. I swear the program is like 15 weeks long, and I used it last spring and probably got 3 inches in the first two weeks that I got to do before spring practice began, and then the summer injury and I'm just now gettin to be able to start it back. It was undoubtedly amazing, and this is NO BS. I have tried powerlifting with olympic lifting, and I've tried plyo programs, jumpsoles, and have probably been sold into every gimmick out there, but his system is THE STUFF for your vertical.
Anyways, I just had to get that off my chest because it sounds like you guys think he's an idiot. But I do agree with you guys that he seems to contradict hisself in his article. I actually used my minis for doing dynamic box squats in his program LOL. I shall read further in section one of his program to see what he's getting at with the progressive acceleration stuff.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/13, 10:09 PM
Ok, I just read the stuff. He says training for Progressive Acceleration in a pool because as you lift higher and higher, the weight is actually reduced because the gravity of the water decreases...this never occurs in life because gravity only increases the further away you get from the ground. He says you need this training because while doing something like squats, you're guaranteed that you are progressively decelerating, and if you're progressively accelerating, your body won't stop at the top of the movement. The body imposes its own "braking system." He says that regular weightlifting can be effective if used for the right things, but for progressive acceleration one should use a pool or do Isometrics at each phase of jumping. He says that things such as squats only train for the bottom portion of the lift, which can be useful, but there are more optimal ways to increase your jumping.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/13, 10:10 PM
I didn't mean increase your jumping I meant for progressive acceleration training.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/14, 03:41 PM
water has no gravity lol.....when your in water....your boyant....hince why you can float on water.Or if you exhale all the air out, you can sink. As you jump out of the water normal gravity makes you heavier....so at the top of the jump you still weigh more.....
The water does allow for some resistance....because it is more dense than air....but still water in itself has no gravity....earth has gravity.....
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/15, 12:27 AM
That's what I say...heck I dunno what he's tryin to get at with the pool thing. But I don't see how using bands every once in a while could hurt. I do realize that they are a great tool for powerlifting, but this is strictly jumpin I'm talkin about. I just understand that all he tries to do in his system is to help your legs accelerate through the motion.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/15, 12:27 AM
That's what I say...heck I dunno what he's tryin to get at with the pool thing. But I don't see how using bands every once in a while could hurt. I do realize that they are a great tool for powerlifting, but this is strictly jumpin I'm talkin about. I just understand that all he tries to do in his system is to help your legs accelerate through the motion.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/15, 12:29 AM
Sorry bout that.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/15, 05:16 PM
I think more or less he's trying to stir the pot.....to get you thinking....to use his system.
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/15, 09:12 PM
Interesting discussion....but my take is that whenever even a great mind has some other purpose for saying things....I tend to become very very skeptical.....this is almost as good as Phizer sponsoring viagra test trials that nellyboy mentioned....when there's a conflict of interest....it just doesn't look good...that guy doesn't make much sense to me for the very reasons you pointed out....I bet even albert einstein had one too many beers one times and said something outrageous....perhaps this guy can use the same excuse...:/
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2005/10/15, 10:51 PM
It seems that way. I dunno what he's gettin at like I said. I reckon I'll use a lot of what he has given me, but I'm also gonna use my minis whenever the heck I feel like it lol.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/16, 01:08 PM
funny thing about training in general, and this goes for muscle mags as well even men fitness or flex.......just about ANY workout will work. Because its change. most folks do the same thing day in day out in the gym.....then they read an "article" and do it.. and are amazed that it added 1in over all or added 25lbs to their bench......it wasn't the workout...it was the change of routine.
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Friends don't let friends squat high...
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2005/10/16, 01:23 PM
This is why HIT training was popular for a while... Because many trainees were overtraining, and HIT training allowed for a deloading type phase. That and it was a different type of training. However, it didn't work forever.
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Your two most important minerals: Iron and Chalk.
If you smoke or don’t wear your seatbelt, please don’t tell me the deadlift is dangerous.
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2005/10/16, 07:38 PM
So lets ignore all of the high quality research done on cleans, squats, and plyos with there correlation to better verts. Let's ignore the fact that bands and chains teach you how to accelerate and apply more effort to the bar. This system will not revolutionize training. Anytime you switch from one style to another you will see a carryover peaking effect because the new stimulus is so different. How did you get injured? I train volleyball players in the water some of their jump training. We don't train in the pool all the time because their bodies need to be conditioned for the actual impact they experience when they play. If you don't do enough ground based plyo's then your setting an athlete up for injury because they are not used to it. One thing to increase your vert. Totally different thing to train for a jumping sport.
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2005/10/16, 09:39 PM
I understand what you guys are saying. I have experienced what you are talking about, but I am not Bullcrappin you guys when I say this jump training is different and indeed awesome. Gator, I realize that your knowledge in exercise physiology and training is far superior to mine. I realize that you have great success with your athletes and that they jump high. I also realize that olympic training squats and plyos are great for your jumping, and actually this program utilizes ALL of those and then some in the workouts. It is the UPN set/rep system that is so awesome about it. I'm not advertising for this guy, and I have been training on my vertical for 5 years now. I've been through tons of trial and error, and this system has done far more for me than ANYTHING else I've ever tried. It is most definitely no scam, you have to read tons of pages that explain why it works before you actually do it....
And trust me, I completely disagree with some of the things this guy says, especially about bands and chains. And sometimes he can sound like an idiot to me, but overall, his system is nothing short of incredible. I don't follow it EXACTLY how it's written because like I said, I disagree with some of it, but I create my own programs using his ideas and what I know from you guys and the results are great. It wasn't just the shock from doing something new because my gains, not just in jumping, but in my quickness and my overall health, were incredible. If his style of training doesn't revolutionize training, I'm glad that I at least got my hands on it. I just wish I could have sooner.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/16, 09:48 PM
Just to share what I got out of 2 weeks of using his program:
One footed jumping
Before: Decent one handed dunks...rarely two handed
After: Cockin it back with two hands...could dunk literally at will, no matter how tired
Two footed jumping
Before: Could grab the rim on a drop step.
After: Dunking off of a drop step and doing some pretty sweet one handed after running. Hitting back rim on two-handed.
My Quickness increased an impressive amount as I felt it much easier to blow by opponents
My legs felt fresh seemingly all the time, and I felt energetic all the time. I had a six pack of ripped abs and lost none of my strength or muscle mass. I can contribute a lot of that to my change in nutrition, which I completely followed what he said to do on that.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/16, 09:59 PM
Oh and Gator on my injury. I was playing in a summer game and messed up my achilles tendon. I was doing a crossover and got pushed backward, and my leg was bent causing what would be a hypoextension I guess?? Like the exact opposite of overstretching. So yeah with my achilles tendons bad enough, that really sucked.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/16, 10:03 PM
Ahh that example sucked. It's like if you were to point your toes straight into the ground and the bottom of your foot to be going toward your calf because all the bodyweight weight was on it.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/17, 12:30 AM
What is the basis behind the program? I have looked into it but I refuse to pay money for the site. I just have a hard time with someone saying that weight training doesn't work for improving the vertical when I have seen many examples of it...
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2005/10/17, 10:20 PM
I completely know what you mean Matt (if you don't mine me callin you that...don't mean disrespect). There are a lot of things he says that I am either very "IFY" about or I just plain out think he's tryin to get attention by sayin that. In his program he says that weight training and olympic lifting has done great things for people, but that there are just better overall ways to do it. You actually do heavy squats every other week in his program and you do explosive box squats a lot (I actually used my minis while doing his program :laugh:) He also has a link to a Joe DeFranco article on there, and we all know how Joe feels about heavy lifting.
Anyways man, the whole idea his program is accelerating and getting more and more powerful as you go up. He emphasizes that you need to train the type IIb muscle fibers. So, since his ideas all are around accelerating through the jump, he focuses on the different phases and points that need to be trained in jumping. Starting acceleration, progressive acceleration, and total power output of your muscles and maximizing neurological capacity. So, when you're training with his system, you train the different aspects in that order. You also do strength work with shins, toe flexors, and like I said squats every other week. The upper body workouts are in a push/pull kind of rotation and focuses on power output as well which is awesome. You not only do explosive benching, but explosive or flying pullups and rotator cuff work. He also gives you a window plan for nutrition and supplements that is pretty cool. The system comes with so much stuff besides that, and it's really all worth it at least to me because of how much it's broadened my knowledge.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/24, 12:11 AM
I tried to get some research articles from this guy but he took me the wrong way. You can call me Matt. That is my name. :) Joe loves the iron. As I do. I get the feeling that people don't appreciate it like they should though. The weight room is more than just jumping higher and getting faster. It will definitely makes these areas much better. It is also about confidence and discipline. Two very important traits any athlete can use a lot of. A heavy single builds confidence in a way nothing else can. I have seen it hundreds of times. I have felt it hundreds of times. When you hit a heavy single in whatever lift you leave the weight with a sense of accomplishment. I think those are the truely important things athletes get out of training. He told me I wasn't willing to try new things. I am always willing to try new things..just for the record i need research to back up those new things :)
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2005/10/24, 03:52 AM
people who are shady with their research...especially with programs they are advertising on their expertise...are usually full of it...or take an ounce of truth and stretch it....
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2005/10/24, 05:32 PM
What do you need research for? I am confused as to what the question is? The new things?
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/25, 12:04 AM
The guy makes fantastic claims about his system. If it is as good as advertised he should have some research to back up what it is he is selling. Case studies do not count. There will be a hand full of people that see great gains regardless of what they are doing. I want to see a study cross-referenced against several other types of training with participants that are of equal training status and matched on as many characteristics as possible. Why? My job depends on it. If I pick up random stuff and just start implementing without research to back it up and an athlete gets hurt I could lose my job. New things being what his system is doing. He says it will revolutionize training. SO he must be doing something new and/or different then everybody else according to his website and ads. The questions is does he have pure, unbiased research to back up his product?
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2005/10/25, 06:52 AM
a lot of the time....there are problems with the studies...starting with who financed it...(which can significantly alter true outcome....has to be an independant source)....is it double blind study? and so forth...does he offer explanations about any inconsistancies? confounding variables involved and so forth..
Almost funny how yesterday I was watching an infomercial flipping channel on 'Sublingual b12' vitamin...this 'MD doctor' was claiming how it can damn near cure Alzheimers....his whole evidence? well this guy I knew had a severe Alzheimer-like conditions and he was getting worse and worse...was finally taken to a elderly care facility and could barely do anything....then after 2 weeks on this vitamin...he walked out on his own back home....so this idiot host...who has mental acuity of a monkey(why did he remind me of Bush so much)...'well folks as you heard it here...it has plenty of "scientific" evidence to back up this great product'...almost spit up my tea....i am shocked FDA doesn't better regulate such things....vitamin deficiency and Alzheimers are apparently the same thing...and my friend...or a person I know...apparently qualifies for sound scientific research.....apparently every1's intelligence shuts off at 2am...:/
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2005/10/25, 05:15 PM
Oh ok...I see what you're sayin now. Yes, the claims he makes are crazy....and supposedly people have doubled their vertical. Anyways, the only thing he uses that's far out at all is the UPN power output training. He basically just takes the best plyo/power output exercises and you use a scientific formula and charts to determine your sets/reps/rest time and it works like freakin steroids. All the other stuff he uses isn't uncommon...much dynamic lifting and some heavy lifting, isometrics, strength work, olympic lifting....it's really just the best all around program I've seen.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/25, 06:47 PM
I also bet some of the doubled verticals were younger kids who matured along with the training. That is normal. Come to Gainesville for vacation and I know I could add at least 5 inches to your vert if I could see you train.
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2005/10/25, 09:33 PM
I'd say you could. And man I would love to do that....hey me and my buddy are taking a senior trip this year, and we might be in Florida..Who knows? We both might be playin some college bball or football, and I'm thinkin about bein a strength coach anyways.
Anyways, on the "other guy", I'm sure a lot of those kids matured with training, but I myself have seen incredible gains, and I've pretty much seen it all and tried it all... just looking at the program and the concepts of it, I have to give it credit because it's pretty well written......Though, for the most part I use it like a lot of you guys use the Westside Template. I just implement the parts of his program that I really need and customize it to my needs and I make my own workouts using different ideas...it has worked wonderfully for me. But anyways, Matt, you can bet that I'm gonna be tryin my best to visit sometime. I really appreciate your willingness to just listen to ppl like me, and I will continue listening.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/26, 12:04 AM
He sent me a link to the program yesterday. There are parts that are suspect. It is a very high volume workout. Jump soles are crap also. I couldn't believe how he was promoting those things. There is some good research on the achilies tendon injury rate with people who use them. He was advocating using them for strengthening. The program is 75% weight lifting and some of the exercises are performed incorrectly in the exercise bank. His stuff is not cutting edge. The concepts he uses are Russian based. Those are what the westside program are based on. He uses a very high volume approach to his training though. Some of those workouts will take a person well over an hour. I am glad it worked for you. You are probably a person that needs high volume for results. Most people do not. I also read the comment that he feels it is the best program on the planet. How does anyone know that? I'd be willing to put my stuff up against his any day of the week. Anyway, before I start to rant I am going to just say it has it's positives but be very careful with how much volume there is.
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2005/10/26, 10:28 PM
So he sent you the program?? That's crazy, you didn't have to pay or anything? Anyways, is the UPN stuff Russian based, or his concepts? When I think of his concepts, I think of how he trains each stage of a vertical jump and how he teaches power output training. I agree that JumpSoles are crap, because I've used them...Never in the program have I seen them used for strengthening though? I've only used them for his achilles tendon stretching. He does recommend walking in them though now that I remember though.
Yes, the volume of his workouts are very heavy, and I did do all of the workout during those two weeks or so that I did it, but I think I could reduce quite a bit of it and get the same if not greater results. Like I said, I wouldn't follow his program completely anymore, but I definitely would use a lot of things I learned from it. I dunno...I like to mix up a lot of different ideas and concepts. I still use much of your advice. You, DeFranco, and Luke have been the ones that have really changed my life as far as training goes. I like all of your stuff.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2005/10/28, 04:18 PM
He does have some nice progressions. There is some well thought out ideas in the plan. It, like every program out there, could be better though. I just hate how he markets it as the best in the world and if you don't do his stuff then you are doing the wrong thing. Too many people in our field come off like that and for the people that his type of training does not work for are confused as to what to do.
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2005/10/29, 01:08 AM
Yeah, I understand what you mean. So is the UPN Technology something new to you though? I'm just curious. And what do you think about the achilles tendon stretching?
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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