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Muscle mass question

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Relique Posts: 187 Joined: 2004/03/17	2004/03/25, 11:03 AM Ok, I am new to this muscle building thing, and I seem to get a lot of people telling me 1 muscle group, once a week. Why is that? Can someone explain why only once a week? That just does not seem to me to be enough, my muscles are fully recovered (as far as I can tell) from the most intense workout I can do in about 2 days, maby 3 at the worst. How often do you work a muscle group? -------------- Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:36 AM It depends on your daily training volume. I have seen great results with both. If you train once a week then you need to double your volume for that body part worked on the given day. Here is an example of a leg workout when I used to do this: Squats 60% x 10 x 3 1min TBS Deadlifts 60% x 5 x 3 1min TBS Split Squats 60% x 10 x 3 1min TBS RDLs wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS Hamstring exercise(you choose) wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS ABS
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:37 AM Chest: (I was into bodybuilding for a little while) Bench 60% x 10 x 3 1min TBS Incline 60% x 10 x 3 1min TBS Decline 60% x 10 x 3 1min TBS DB Bench wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS Flys or cross-overs wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS
asimmer Posts: 8,201 Joined: 2003/01/07	2004/03/25, 11:38 AM If you are new, you can work the same muscle groups every other day if you desire and feel recovered. General progression is like this: Beginners - total body 2-3 times a week, mainly compound exercises Next level is to split it into an upper body workout and a lower body workout, maybe every other day, usually 4 times (2 of each) a week. The more advanced you get and the heavier you lift, the more recovery you need and the more specific your training gets - muscle priority, isolation, more intense focus, etc. Hence many lifters lift on a 3 day or four day schedule, with a day off inbetween. So you are actually hitting the same muscle group every four or five days, not a full week. If you like your current routine and it is still working for (getting results) than stick with it for a while longer. You have the rest of your life to try new routines and splits :big_smile: -------------- If you fall down seven times, get up eight.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:39 AM I would do those first two on days 1 and 2, rest on day 3, then do this one on day 4. Back and triceps Pull-ups wt x 10 x 3 1 min TBS B.O.R Wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS Seated Rows Wt x 10 x 3 1 min TBS Pull-downs wt x 10 x 3 1 min TBS Skull Crushers wt x 10 x 3 1 min TBS Push-downs wt x 10 x 3 1 min TBS ABS
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:42 AM Day 5 - Shoulders Seated Front Military press 60% x 10 x 3 1min TBS Dumbbell Shoulder press-anyway you want to do it wt x 10 x 3 short rest period Shrugs wt x 10 x 3 1 min TBS Front raise wt x 10 x 3 keep cranking 1 right after the other Side raise wt x 10 x3 same Back hypers wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS Abs
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:44 AM Day 6 - calves, biceps, and forearms Standing calve raises wt x 10 x 3 toes straight wt x 10 x 3 toes out Seated Calve raises wt x 10 x 3 Toes Straight wt x 10 x 3 Toes Out Preacher curls wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS Dumbbell curls wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS Forearm curls wt x 10 x 3 1min TBS DAY 7-REST
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:46 AM This is week one posted above. Try this for 4 weeks. One slight change each week though. Reps will be 10 across the board week 1. Week 2 - 8s, Week 3 - 6s, Week 4- 4s. Take 1min TBS for 10s, 1.5 min TBS for 8s, 2min TBS for 6s, 2.5 min TBS for 4s. Try this for 4 weeks and I guarantee some good mass gains all over.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:59 AM And if you try it - Please let me know what you think of it. I have worked with body builders and they all did very well with this. I go through 4 weeks of this every so often to just refresh my self. I bet I hit this cycle 1 or 2 times a year.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 11:59 AM If you stick the reps with great form and stick to the rest time it will give you optimal results.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 12:01 PM I almost forgot. Reps for the deadlift are different. They go: Week 1 - 5 Week 2 - 4 Week 3 - 3 Week 4 - 2
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 12:14 PM Don't forget that deadlifts are great for the posterior chain (upper back-low back-glute-hamstrings-calves). I love doing them after squats like this for only 4 weeks. I can't lift as heavy but I still get alot out of it. I like to throw the back hypers in on the upper back day because I like them there. Plus, that gives me a few days between back hypers and squats rather than an entire week. Great question.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/25, 12:47 PM Gator I am very much interested in giving this a shot. I do have a few questions though. Please excuse my ignorance. 1) TBS? I am assuming this is rest time between sets? 2) 60% of what? 3) When you say wt x 10 x 3 I am assuming you mean wt that you can handle? 4) I am in the Marine Corps so I need to run to stay in standards. Will this effect my growth? I will start this program next week and once I complete it I will let you know the results for me. -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/25, 01:17 PM Also what are split squats? -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 02:04 PM TBS = Time Between Sets 60% of your 1rm for that exercise. If you do not know the 1RM then take a good guess(undershoot). wt x 10 x 3 mean weight you can perform great form with over three sets yet still feel challenged. It will effect it a little but you'll be fine. Split squats are putting one foot forward, perform the squats to parallel on the front leg and the switching after the designated reps and doing it for the other leg. 10 reps means 10 for each leg.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/25, 02:21 PM Thanks gator! I look forward to trying this. -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/25, 02:31 PM One last question I promise. When I do wt x 10 x 3 do I want to keep the same weight or gradually go up? I know I am focusing on form. Are the split squats similar to lunges? -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
Relique Posts: 187 Joined: 2004/03/17	2004/03/25, 03:59 PM SWeet, I like the idea you have there Gator, I really am working on catching my Arms up to my legs, I think it is due to either my Genetics or my past exercises (Tae-Qwon-Do, Kuk Sool Won, Track, and Basketball) They are all leg intensive, so my arms are getting ripped off, I will post a picture of my arms and my legs on the site once I fix my camera, I know it sounds wierd, but they are way out of proportion. I may adapt to doing the upper body portion, my legs are getting the crap kicked out of them (kuk Sool Won 3 days a week will do that) but my arms and upper body does not get tird from the workout so I will use those that you posted, ty very much! -------------- Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
Kyrah Posts: 251 Joined: 2004/03/11	2004/03/25, 04:01 PM LOL. . . ok, now who is going to come spot him now that you all have him seeing himself get ripped? I'm personally not quite qualified <max bench. . ./cough 55lbs> :big_smile: JK -------------- Love me as I am . . . Let me worry about how I look!
Relique Posts: 187 Joined: 2004/03/17	2004/03/25, 04:01 PM O yeah, forgot one thing. what is a B.O.R? you posted it in your tri-back workout. -------------- Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
Relique Posts: 187 Joined: 2004/03/17	2004/03/25, 04:03 PM Message deleted by moderator due to unsuitable content for this board.
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2004/03/25, 04:05 PM I believe he is referring to a Bent Over Row or BOR, Barbell style of course! LOL -------------- LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 04:10 PM hecdarec keep the same weight or go up. I like to alternate. Once you pick one, stick with it.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/25, 04:11 PM Mutt is right on the button. B.O.R. = Bent Over Row (barbell style of course!:big_smile:)
Relique Posts: 187 Joined: 2004/03/17	2004/03/25, 04:13 PM woot, ty Gator, and I have no idea why they deleted one of my posts lol, not even sure what it was -------------- Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
Relique Posts: 187 Joined: 2004/03/17	2004/03/25, 04:14 PM Message deleted by moderator due to unsuitable content for this board.
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2004/03/25, 04:16 PM They are being deleted cause they are post twice is all :big_smile: -------------- LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/26, 10:12 AM Gator two more questions. Sorry if I am a pain but when I do something I like to do it right. 1) Each week I am decreasing the amount of reps yet I am keeping the weight at 60% of my max. This does not make sense to me, shouldnt I up the weight? I would think it would be less challenging as the program progresses. 2)On Shoulders for front raises and side raises you say "keep cranking one right after the other" Does this mean that I am not resting between sets? So in other words I would be doing a straight 30? I am thankful for your assistance Gator. I am really stoked to go balls to the walls on this workout! -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/26, 02:01 PM hecdarec asked me a great question in an email: here is the answer. ---- On 2004-03-26 23:14:58, hecdarec said: I posted this in the forum but I wanted to make sure you saw it before next week. Thanks again! Gator two more questions. Sorry if I am a pain but when I do something I like to do it right. 1) Each week I am decreasing the amount of reps yet I am keeping the weight at 60% of my max. This does not make sense to me, shouldnt I up the weight? I would think it would be less challenging as the program progresses. 2)On Shoulders for front raises and side raises you say "keep cranking one right after the other" Does this mean that I am not resting between sets? So in other words I would be doing a straight 30? I am thankful for your assistance Gator. I am really stoked to go balls to the walls on this workout! Great Question: 10 - 60% 8 - 70% 6 - 80% 4 - 90% It means: one arm at a time: while one arm works the other rests and keep cranking until done. Great questions, I'm going to copy and paste this into a post.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/26, 02:02 PM I forgot to post the percentages. Too many blows to the head :angry::laugh:
Relique Posts: 187 Joined: 2004/03/17	2004/03/27, 03:02 PM cool stuff, I will ajust my workout a bit! perhaps I will burn out a bit more, and be able to justify once a week insted of twice. -------------- Sean "TBAR" Johnson -USAF-
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/29, 01:01 PM A small piece of advice to anyone considering giving this work out a try. Get an accurate one rep max. If you guess and go to high you are going to be in for a world of hurt. I went into the gym on Saturday and I got accurate maxes. Today I did the leg workout. Let me tell you I have not had a workout that exhausting in years. I don't know if I have not been pushing myself correctly or what. That work out today lit a fire under my ass. I am in for 4 weeks of hell and you know what? I embrace it. Let's do this! Don't let this workout fool you, it is tough! -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/29, 02:29 PM :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: The first time I tried this plan, I thought my heart was going to pound out of my chest. The first week is by far the toughest week. It gets better because the reps get lower and the rest time gets longer. Get through this week and you're money!:big_smile:
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/29, 02:44 PM Man I thought I was a female cat. I was dying. I was sweating my ass off. I got to be honest though I like it! -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
big_j_scf Posts: 308 Joined: 2003/11/08	2004/03/29, 04:27 PM so gator, will the first set be kind of easy then, or can you go all out on the first set and then when you cant do as much on the 3rd set take some weight off?
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2004/03/29, 04:32 PM So let me see if I got this straight. I do the first week at 60% x10 reps x 3 sets? SO 60% of 450 is 180. Now I will not even break a sweat at 180x3 x10 for my deadlifts? Is this right? -------------- LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2004/03/29, 04:34 PM Never mind I think I need to go back to math class -------------- LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/29, 04:46 PM Deadlifts are started off at 5 reps mutt. So you would do 270x5x3 with a one minute break between reps. Perhaps you are too advanced for this workout? -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2004/03/29, 04:56 PM Well I followed the directions....60% 0f my max is 270, but I hit 275 as my second set now...so I dunno...Gator? LOL this is fun! -------------- LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/29, 05:13 PM Your deadlifts will be ok. Remember that you are performing them after squatting and you will be blown. If it feels too light after the 2nd week then go higher, but keep the form and stick the reps. This first 4 week cycle sets you up to hit some really crazy numbers the second 4 week cycle. It will be sick. Your body will be metabolizing hormonal cocktail with all the things happening here. I designed this training plan when I was taking graduate level neuromuscular aspects of exercise and exercise bioenergetics class. We did a ton of reviews on the current literature from around the world. Those classes were awesome. I applied all I was learning in the two areas to this plan and it is very effective. You will see great results from this plan. It also has a lot of my own training experience in it.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/29, 05:14 PM After 2 4 week cycles on this if anyone wants some powerlifting cycles let me know.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/03/29, 10:49 PM You won't be able to go up in weight, without sacrificing form, on the 3rd set if you have set them properly. Follow the percentages for the first 4 weeks. It may be a little hit and miss starting out but by the next 4 weeks you will have your numbers honed in. Your ego will try to get in the way of this plan. STICK the reps and you will do well. If you second guess the percentages and try to go up on each set of the core exercises then you will not be as successful. I have seen it happen. You will over-train very quickly and hit a wall.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/03/30, 09:11 AM So gator am I supposed to do 2 4 week cycles of this program? -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/04/08, 10:49 AM Bump -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/04/08, 10:55 AM Yes, but let me know when the first 4 are over so I can change the next 4 up for you.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/04/08, 10:56 AM Ok great, I am on week 2 right now. So I will hit you up when I am on week 4. Thanks gator. -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/04/19, 08:19 AM Gator, I am on week 4 of the program. I know you are busy as hell. When you are free if you could shoot me the next 4 weeks I would be much obliged. You can send it to my email if that is easier. hecdarec1976@yahoo.com Thanks Gator! -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.
killazee00 Posts: 27 Joined: 2004/04/11	2004/04/19, 07:04 PM Question: doing this mass program of yours(gator) for the legs, will it decrease my vertical leap or speed?
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2004/04/19, 09:00 PM How are you doing with this plan? I want details! I will send it to you hec.
hecdarec Posts: 2,457 Joined: 2003/12/16	2004/04/20, 07:58 AM I almost quit after the first workout. Honestly, that first leg workout scared me. But I have persevered and I stuck to it. The workout is great and I think that I am doing good. I didnt measure myself or anything before I started so all I have to judge by is mirrors, clothes, and a scale. I am up to 200lbs form about 196-197. My shoulders and legs have grown noticeably. I put on a suit on Easter that I wore in October and the shirt was choking the hell out of my neck. So I would say I have grown. As for the workout itself I absolutely love it. It is intense and challenging. The only problem I have had is on the decline bench. Once I am done with the flat bench and the incline I am absolutely spent so I have never gotten my target reps on the decline. Other than that I have stayed the course on all the other exercises. -------------- My gym dues are not paid with money.

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