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2004/07/02, 01:59 PM
I read the post on this and am planning to start with dextrose/malto 50/50 with it. If I weight 140 lbs , my shake has 30gm of protein mixed with 8 oz of milk (8 gm protein + 16 gm sugars), how much dextrose/malto should be mixed in with the shake?
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2004/07/02, 02:03 PM
I don't know if that is a typo on your subject line. But if this is a post workout shake you should mix your protien with water. It will be delivered to your muscles faster that way. Not sure about the dextrose/malto...sorry.
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Dont Expect Results, Earn Them!
Lance
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2004/07/05, 02:30 PM
what I meant was that I read that it was recommended to have 50% dextrose and 50% malto post-workout but what I dont know is how much (in grams) should I consume considering my body weight and post-workout protein consumption!
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2004/07/05, 06:26 PM
Don't use milk. And, are you trying to gain or lose. Please fill out your profile, easier for us to help you.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/07/08, 01:52 AM
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Quoting from bb1fit:
Don't use milk. And, are you trying to gain or lose. Please fill out your profile, easier for us to help you.
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Hey, this is my first post. anyways, i read in many other threads and understand that a post workout protein shake is best made by mixing the protein with water. i also understand that mixing it with milk is less effective. i'm just wondering if using milk instead of water actually slows down the absorption of protein?
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2004/07/10, 01:36 AM
I actually have the same question as the original poster. I am 215lbs and approx 6' tall, I don't care about weight I just want to gain mass for the time being and am wondering what a proper mixture would be for the post workout shake. Thank you :big_smile:
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2004/07/10, 06:43 PM
Post workout is your most anabolic time of day. You want as fast acting protein absorbtion as you can get to take advantage of supercompensation time. Casein will slow absorbtion. Some casein proteins can take up to 7 hrs. as it gels in the stomach on absorbtion. This is great during the day and especially so at night, but not post workout. Though you may think "more calories" using milk, you are committing hari kari post workout this way.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/07/10, 08:32 PM
I understand that part bb1, but what amount of malto/dextrose would you recommend that someone with my goals stated above would supplement with?
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2004/07/11, 12:33 AM
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Quoting from bb1fit:
Post workout is your most anabolic time of day. You want as fast acting protein absorbtion as you can get to take advantage of supercompensation time. Casein will slow absorbtion. Some casein proteins can take up to 7 hrs. as it gels in the stomach on absorbtion. This is great during the day and especially so at night, but not post workout. Though you may think "more calories" using milk, you are committing hari kari post workout this way.
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Ok, thanks bb1fit. I always figured that the whey in the protein shake would get absorbed faster than the casien anyways. I just didn't know the casien would have such a big effect on the absorption of the whey.
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2004/07/11, 05:08 PM
One thing I don't quite understand is why milk slows the absorption of whey into the body.
Ok, I know casein is a slow protein and whey is a fast absorbing protein but what doesn't make sense to me is why would casein slow down the absorption of the whey.
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2004/07/11, 07:27 PM
Take 50% of your lean body mass. Divide it in half. In your case, taking no bodyfat into account, weighing 215 lbs. you would want approx. 107 gr. of carbs. This would be divided equally between dextrose and malto, 53.5gr. each(you are trying to gain). If you know your bodyfat, then this would be a bit more accurate. For instance, if you are 10% bodyfat, this would be subtracting 21.5 lb. so you would use 194.5 lb. as a base to figure your amounts.
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Quoting from energie:
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/07/11, 07:43 PM
TY so much bb1, I enjoy reading your posts, as you are always very informative and put the information right out there in simple and easy to understand terms. You have helped me understand so much that I didn't before.
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2004/07/11, 10:03 PM
Glad to help
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Quoting from berginyon:
TY so much bb1, I enjoy reading your posts, as you are always very informative and put the information right out there in simple and easy to understand terms. You have helped me understand so much that I didn't before.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/07/14, 08:53 PM
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Quoting from roger23:
One thing I don't quite understand is why milk slows the absorption of whey into the body.
Ok, I know casein is a slow protein and whey is a fast absorbing protein but what doesn't make sense to me is why would casein slow down the absorption of the whey.
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This is also my question. Bump
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2004/07/14, 09:36 PM
Someone just posted this article on another board I frequent! I'll let the pro's chime in if it is correct or not ; )
And I wonder why my body can't tolerate dairy......
Here ya go :)
Mixing whey with dairy milk does not provide optimal results
At first, it may seem strange to learn that whey protein should not be mixed in milk or milk products like yogurt and ice cream. After all, most whey protein supplements taste better in milk than in water and whey protein is obtained by collecting the clear fluid (called whey) produced during the processing of cheese.
But let’s consider some of the following facts:
The enzymes necessary to break down and digest milk are renin and lactase. They are all but gone by the age of three in most humans.
There is an element in all milk known as casein and there is three hundred times more casein in cow’s milk than in human’s milk. Casein coagulates in the stomach and forms large, tough, dense, difficult-to-digest curds that are adapted to the four-stomach digestive apparatus of a cow. Once inside the human system, this thick mass of goo puts a tremendous burden on the body to somehow get rid of it.
Unfortunately some of this gooey substance hardens and adheres to the lining of the intestines and prevents the absorption of nutrients into the body.
The most serious difficulty with milk consumption is the formation of mucus in the system. This mucus coats the mucous membranes and also seriously affects absorption.
To fully understand why whey protein supplements should not be mixed with milk, this knowledge should be combined with a review of the technology that goes into high quality whey protein supplements. Whey protein isolate, a highly separated fraction found only in top quality products, is very expensive and has an extremely high bioavailability (meaning it is very easily utilized by the body) because its particle sizes are so small. Whey protein concentrate has also gone through a huge amount of separation from the original starting material and the major waste product in this procedure is casein. This casein is then sold to other companies which produce low grade products. If you were to check out the ingredients on your favourite pudding desert, for example, you will likely see sodium caseinate because it is a cheap product that provides substance.
The idea behind a high quality whey protein is particle size. Digestion is most effective when particles are small enough to be taken up by the cells of the intestine. If food is not broken down into small enough pieces the body will simply NOT be able to use it. All research on the absorption of food reaches the same conclusion: the bigger the molecule, the more difficulty it has penetrating the mucus barrier lining the intestines.
So, why not mix milk and whey protein? Milk contains a lot of casein which adheres to the intestinal wall and blocks the absorption of the smaller whey protein molecules. Also, it generates a barrier of mucus internally which not only drives down the absorption of protein, but also the absorption of other vital nutrients.
The solution? Mix your whey protein in water, your favorite juice or a non-lactose beverage such as soy milk and benefit as much as possible from your protein supplement.
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Quoting from energie:
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Damselfly
Whoever said that sunshine brings happiness never danced in the rain. \\"unknown\\"
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2004/07/15, 12:25 PM
Thanks Damselfly, now it makes more sense not to drink whey with milk!
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2004/07/15, 08:42 PM
Post workout...water only. Nightime(before bed)is a great time for casein. Casein actually gels in the stomach before digestion. Thus insuring a slow steady release of amino acids into the bloodstream. During the day can be beneficial also for the same reasons.
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Quoting from roger23:
Thanks Damselfly, now it makes more sense not to drink whey with milk!
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/07/16, 04:58 AM
Thanks for the clarification Damselfly!
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2004/07/16, 08:43 AM
Roger, energie, glad I could help ya'll :)
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Quoting from energie:
Thanks for the clarification Damselfly!
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Damselfly
Whoever said that sunshine brings happiness never danced in the rain. \\"unknown\\"
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2004/07/16, 11:10 PM
One more thing,the amount of protein in my post-workout shake is about 25% my bodyweight. Is this OK? (I am in a gaining phase)
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2004/07/17, 09:26 AM
Yes, this is exactly correct. Stay with this even on cutting. What you will change is your simple carbs.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2004/07/17, 07:40 PM
I know this topic has probably been beat to death, but i'm going to ask anyways. are there special circumstances that your post workout protein shake should have high carbs? what about no carbs? i've been using a protein powder which has basically no carbs in it. so now, since i'm using water to mix with it, i'm taking in basically no carbs in my post work out shake. any comment/suggestions? thanks
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2004/08/05, 03:38 PM
I read couple of threads on this site on protein shakes. The threads are extemely informative. I find bb1fit answers very very helpful. Now most of my questions are clarified here. However I would like to confirm a few things.
I am a beginer and am trying to gain weight/lean mass/mussle. After reading gon protein shakes, I would like to start on it. Please confirm these shakes are for gaining mass (not lose weight). Take post workout, with water asap.
About 40g should be good. Thanks for your help.
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2004/08/05, 03:38 PM
I read couple of threads on this site on protein shakes. The threads are extemely informative. I find bb1fit answers very very helpful. Now most of my questions are clarified here. However I would like to confirm a few things.
I am a beginer and am trying to gain weight/lean mass/mussle. After reading gon protein shakes, I would like to start on it. Please confirm these shakes are for gaining mass (not lose weight). Take post workout, with water asap.
About 40g should be good. Thanks for your help.
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2007/08/03, 02:50 PM
im sorry, but where is the post that explains post workout protien?
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2007/11/06, 04:38 PM
I must say I was surprised when I saw this thread as I had never heard of mixing whey with milk being bad. All of those magazine articles and products saying it was fine (even recommended). So I did some more searching. I found one or two sites saying it was bad and much more saying it was ok yet none came from anyone other than your average person. I found this site (http://www.nutritionexpress.com/showarticle.aspx?articleid=787).
It's an article from some guy with a PhD (if that makes a real big difference) stating it actually compliments each other to mix whey protein with milk.
I'm just surprised that if it's true that mixing whey in milk is bad (in the sense that it's not digested quick enough); why is it not more widely reported in magazines/etc.?
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2007/11/06, 08:54 PM
Yeah, we learn as we grow, and grow as we learn. Much bodybuilding dogma at one time had it that milk slowed protein synthesis post workout. Does it? Maybe, maybe not. But however, it is such a non-issue that you needn't worry. I personally have posted many articles/studies favoring the use of milk. This post came from 2004. Lessons learned. You will be hurt neither way you go.
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Baseball is the only field of endeavor where a man can succeed three times out of ten and be considered a good performer
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2007/11/07, 07:06 AM
thanks bb1fit, I figured it wasn't all that bad as both (casein and whey) comes from milk in the first place right? If it helps take those protein shakes (some which are nasty) then go for it right? =)
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