Group: Health Supplements

Created: 2012/01/01, Members: 102, Messages: 16613

Supplements can be a great aid with your health and fitness goals. Combined with the proper exercise and nutritional plan they can be quite effective.

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protein and creatine

newbreed
newbreed
Posts: 58
Joined: 2003/05/15
United States
2003/07/02, 12:53 PM
Hey what's up guys and girls. Just 2 questions, purchased EAS whey and creatine, was wondering when should these be consumed. Before workout after? Also, the creatine says to load for 5 days drinking 4 drinks per day? Is this too much, can it be lowered. With the size I purchsed the loading phase is going to use the whole jug of creatine. Any help is greatly appreciated.

newbreed

"Work Hard, Play Hard, TRAIN HARDER"
plfitness
plfitness
Posts: 198
Joined: 2003/05/25
United States
2003/07/04, 12:56 PM
As most here will agree the loading phase is unnecessary, Personally I would take 1 5-10 gm serving of creatine mixed with 1 serving of whey with 16 oz of gatorade once per day. the best time is right after a workout or first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, either way it is important to then eat a balanced meal an hour later to stabilize blood sugar levels. You can mix in the whey with meals throughaout the day if you like, but I perfer to stick to whole food as not using supplements for calories prevents me from getting to humgry & blowing my diet.

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\\"Knowledge & persistence is all one needs to succeed\"\
---Patrick L.
bowers
bowers
Posts: 179
Joined: 2003/04/13
United States
2003/07/04, 11:13 PM
As a long time creatine cycler I am goig to tell you to definately load with creatine its important to saturate the muscle for the first week then 10g per day to maintain 5g before and 5g after workouts if the stuff you are using is to expensive try ON creatine monohydrate creapure its cheaper and doesn't have the sugar of the other stuff good luck
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2003/07/05, 10:39 AM
I would have to disagre with plfitness on this one, he is usually right on. As far as creatine loading goes, this can be essential. It has been proven time and time again that this works. Not loading, eventually you may get enough creatine(ATP stores) in your system, but at what cost and when. ATP is used up very quickly, and loading will insure saturation, then a maintenance dose daily. Experience and research has shown this works. I personally think you will use more NOT doing this, it will take much longer if at all to show results, which in turn relates to buying even more. Do the loading phase.


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As far as genetics go, the skies the limit. You are limited only by your mental perception of it.

Ron
plfitness
plfitness
Posts: 198
Joined: 2003/05/25
United States
2003/07/06, 02:29 AM
I have to agree with bb1 on the fact that creatine loading produces faster results than just taking a minimal daily dosage however I feel it's feasible that faster is not always better in this case. Of course there is no "for sure" answer on this debate as of yet, & until further conclusive research shows one way or the other I think we can all agree the best thing to do is for the individual to experiment & find the method that works best for them. I am a bit biased as my experience with creatine has been more favorable with skipping the loading phase. Once again I apolagize for the long post but I would like to share an article I found that might be of interest regarding advantages of low dose supplementation & cycling of creatine.

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Title:

Creatine supplementation in health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle.

Researchers:

Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Wallimann T.
Institute for Cell Biology, Swiss Federal Institute of Technology, ETH-Honggerberg, Zurich.

Source:

Mol Cell Biochem 1998 Jul;184(1-2):427-37

Summary:

These researchers studied the in vivo effect of dietary creatine as well as 3-GPA (a creatine analog that is a competitive inhibitor of creatine entry) on the expression of the creatine transporter (creatine T). Long term feeding of rats with 3-GPA has been previously shown to decrease creatine levels in skeletal muscles without effecting creatine T expression. In this study, the expression of the creatine T was examined in rats chronically fed either 4% creatine or 2.5% GPA. Dietary creatine administered for 3-6 months, significantly lowered the expression of creatine T polypeptides. The rats fed the creatine analog GPA showed virtually no change (perhaps even a slight increase) in creatine T polypeptide expression.

Discussion:

The wide spread use of creatine among athletes and bodybuilders has raised concerns about possible negative side effects. Of course most of the nay sayers are looking to control its availability with little real concern for the well being of those who use it. This study has answered a question that has rested on the minds of many, which is, "Is there any reason to cycle creatine?" From the study above we see that the abundance and activity of the creatine transporter is negatively effected by long term creatine ingestion. The creatine transporter is down regulated with continued exposure to extracellular creatine.

Human skeletal muscle has an upper limit of creatine that can, or will, be contained within the cell. This limit is around 150-160 mmol/kg of dry muscle. As the intracellular concentration of creatine approaches this level, the synthesis of creatine transporters declines and even stops depending on the amount of creatine ingested over time. In the study above, it was shown that the creatine transporter is regulated by the content of creatine in the cell rather than by the interaction of creatine, or it’s analog 3-GPA, with the transporter.

All the arguments about creatine absorption being a limiting factor in creatine content within the cell are bogus. Creatine does not need to be "micronized" or "effervesent" to lead to an increase in creatine content within your muscles. The activity of the creatine transporter is the limiting factor. Any trick increase in creatine absorption will only hasten creatine transporter down regulation. It only requires about 5 grams per day for 30 days to increase the content of creatine within muscle tissue to the same extent as 30 grams per day for 6 days. The sooner you reach the upper limit the sooner your muscles become unable to take up creatine. It is better to maintain sufficient levels of creatine transporters in order not to cause a rapid decline in creatine content once creatine supplementation is discontinued. Clearly there appears to be good reason to cycle creatine supplementation.

The authors of this study recommend not using creatine for over 3 months at a time. To truly cycle creatine you will have to take at least 4 weeks off. Creatine levels take at least one month to return to pre-supplement levels. It may be important to take the entire month off because one speculated mechanism of creatine transporter downregulation is that when the intracellular levels (levels inside the muscle cell) are increased the creatine transporters are taken down and not replaced as long as creatine levels remain elevated. Thus it might take as long as a month for creatine transporters to return to normal after chronic creatine supplementation. Keep in mind that no one has actually shown that long-term supplementation with creatine is a bad thing.

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\\"Knowledge & persistence is all one needs to succeed\"\
---Patrick L.
bb1fit
bb1fit
Posts: 11,105
Joined: 2001/06/30
United States
2003/07/06, 10:36 AM
Good article....unfortunately, if I wanted to, I go out and find an article stating basically the exact opposite. Your point is well taken plfitness, and goes back to something I preach near and dear to my heart. Learn your body. Though 90% of things may be one way and the right way, that 10% that is true for just you and is a variable may just be the key that makes it all work for YOU!


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As far as genetics go, the skies the limit. You are limited only by your mental perception of it.

Ron
plfitness
plfitness
Posts: 198
Joined: 2003/05/25
United States
2003/07/06, 02:45 PM
Well said bb1, I couldn't agree more.

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\\"Knowledge & persistence is all one needs to succeed\"\
---Patrick L.