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should I belt?

bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/18, 04:23 PM My sqats and dls been kinda......welll not going up lol......I have a belt but I don't use it...think it might help me get past a sticking point? Or this just a mental thing ? -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
bropie Posts: 1,084 Joined: 2004/12/04	2005/05/18, 04:43 PM personally id say a mental thing.. from your posts and routines sounds like you know what you're doing, and i think belting will just kinda be a cop out.. you might just be in a groove or plateau, so mix things up a bit. i got faith you can push the limit again :big_smile:
	2005/05/18, 05:10 PM I would stay away from a belt...it just tends to compensate for weak abs..... I would instead reevaluate your squat/dl routines and maybe switch it up...
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/18, 05:19 PM I have.......however when my squat was stuck.......I stoped using the belt, max went up. besides everything I seen shows powerlifters using belts.....I dont think they have all weak abbs? -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/18, 05:21 PM also no offense.......straps make for a weak grip.......but you still use them? whats the differance? -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
	2005/05/18, 05:30 PM none taken...but I need them to lift the weight...you don't need the belt....for me straps are like a crutch...my back will lose considerable strength if i stop using them whiel for you the belt is not an issue right now....I mean straps give me about 150lb of extra strength in deadlifts and probably at least 50 lb in other back exercises...can the belt do the same for you? (I understand I need to work on my grip but it's going to be a very slow and long process ...)
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/05/18, 11:43 PM Yes, you do see alot of pics of powerlifters with belts. However, most of these pictures are taken at competitions. Most powerlifters dont train with the belt, they only use it when it matters, in competition. Powerlifters train their abs religiously, as well as their lower back, but in a competition, they want every advantage they can get. Hope that helps.
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2005/05/19, 07:57 AM I only use my belt when maxing out, or squating in the 3 rep range. No harm will come from it. It is when you use it all the time that it weakens the abs. As for straps, I used to advocate them. I used them all the time as well. Now the only sets they get used on are shrugs over 450lb. I think meance that your style of lifting is the main problem. You need to constantly train the grip. I mean it, lose them and only use them for the heaviest of your last sets your grip will improve a lot!. -------------- Less Talk, More Chalk! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
	2005/05/19, 09:02 AM Mutt...that's the point I don't have 'light' sets... my back workout goes romanian deadlifts 225-12 then I go to 600+...for 2-4 reps...dependign whether i stand on plates... then i do one handed pull downs using 160-180 lb for 1-3 reps and I do one handed cable rows with last time 220 for 3 on 2nd set.... I don't pyramid using light sets...I go heavy...for very few sets...basically Yates style except using lower reps....I also tend to do a supersets for those 1-2 sets....like romainan deadlift+machine back extensions+glute/ham machine... if I drop the straps I will lose a big amount of strength on my back.... Belt should be used on only the heaviest of sets...usually 1 rep maxes....it's a tool in powerlifitng to gain a small edge by pushing abs against the belt and gaining better foundation during the lift....however if used during other times it considerably weakens core/abs
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2005/05/19, 10:01 AM I understand that I felt that way as well. I had a hard time doing deads with 315 and holding it with out straps. Now i hit well over 100 plus pounds for reps of that with out them. Just a matter of training. The belt topic is a very hot topic to debate. I never use it unless my lower back is still tired from back day and i am squatting heavy (335+). Then I use it to protect the tired weaker muscles. -------------- Less Talk, More Chalk! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2005/05/19, 10:02 AM Another thing I know you like the yates training thing but he was always geting hurt and if he had not torn his biceps and tris and chest the last few years of his competeive life he could have won a few more Olymipas. Just a thought. -------------- Less Talk, More Chalk! 7707mutt@freetrainers.com
	2005/05/19, 10:21 AM I understand. However I have a lot of time to recover...I train on a 2-2.5 week cycle (as long as I don't get sick)...and I do a 5 body split...so I got a lot of time to recover unlike Yates who trained whoel body every 5-7 days.... But realistically I won't be able to catch up fast enough...with my grip...I am unsure whether I can even do 550 now...which is going to be disastrous....I would also ahve to switch my training to lower weight trying to preexhaust my back so that I lift lower weight on deadlift....and struggle on other exercises.... Perhaps during the sumemr I will step up my grip training...I also plan on ordering a new gripper that's in between the 2 I have....so that there's not a huge difference...now I got 80lb and 200lb...and 200lb is too hard for training for now...so probably 150lb should help a lot..
snoopy13 Posts: 239 Joined: 2003/11/15	2005/05/19, 11:24 AM Bigandrew, try the belt and see what you get. Thats the only way you will know.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2005/05/19, 03:58 PM I never belt. I'm not telling you not to though. I would only belt or wrap for max effort sets though. Train your body to handle weights with the support. Perfect your technique, then wrap and belt for the heavy, heavy stuff.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2005/05/19, 03:59 PM Ab weakness is relative to the weight you are trying to move. The heavier the weight, the stronger your abs have to be. Always try to get your abs stronger.
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/19, 04:46 PM what are some really good abb excercises? latly i been doing reverse ball crucnches rope crunches ball crunches with 12lb ball and standing side ways, and twisting and throwing a medicine ball against a wall and catching it.....resisting it. ? -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2005/05/19, 04:50 PM Heavy decline sit-ups for sets of 5-10. I have had 4 45 lb plates on my chest for sets of 5 on that exercise. Perform heavy twists, hanging knees raises,hanging straight legged leg lifts, jack knife on a physioball, v-ups with moderate to heavy weight. Perform heavy back hypers, reverse hypers... The big thing is to try and perform abs that are just as hard as squatting. Always use great form.
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2005/05/19, 04:51 PM ============ Quoting from gatormade: I never belt. I'm not telling you not to though. I would only belt or wrap for max effort sets though. Train your body to handle weights with the support. Perfect your technique, then wrap and belt for the heavy, heavy stuff. ============= with the support should read without the support. My bad!
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/19, 04:54 PM My gym has a glute ham machine I use that 2 times a week, usually with a 35 or 45lb plate . twists? Only twists Iknwo of is puting your feet under somthing and stoping half way and "twisting" is this what you mean? -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
gatormade Posts: 1,355 Joined: 2003/10/01	2005/05/19, 05:02 PM What do use the glute ham for? Abs? If so, how many reps, sets, etc...?
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/19, 05:09 PM I use it for my glute hams lol reverse hyper, knees slightly bent. I know your gonna be mad.......but lol......my squat/ dl been stuck, so I'm trying heavy leg presses, feet high on plateform with a 3 sec negative for 6 reps( trying to hit more hammy)......then immedatly going to glute ham , and doing reverse hypers on it......with a plate last week a 35 for 8 reps for 5 sets. In general health questions, we are having kinda a contest......a lil lift off on here with the members( welcome to join us) LOOK for "MY LOG" by mee has my workouts in it from past week or so... I just resently tried doing my abbs on it.......kinda weird thought I was gonna fall off. -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
	2005/05/20, 01:48 AM I like decline cable rope sit ups....I like doing it with a weight for 1-2 reps...then releasing the weight and repping out as many as I can to failure which is usually around 8-15 reps...
DeadOnArrival Posts: 95 Joined: 2005/05/22	2005/05/26, 09:20 AM hey I agree with you on the belt issue. Don't use, but if you do only on max lifts.
dvelswk Posts: 192 Joined: 2005/05/07	2005/05/26, 02:28 PM I personally never use a belt, I try not to use any extra accessories for lifting. I think belts are mainly for beginners. As you said powerlifters use them and they're definately not beginners, but that could just be a mental thing. Some people feel that the pressure on your stomach that a belt gives you helps you get the weight up, I dont think it does. Try the belt if you want, it's not going to hurt you in a any way. If your strength goes up, stick with the belt, if it doesn't, don't use it. That's my opinion. Take care. -Derek
mmaibohm Posts: 1,621 Joined: 2003/09/30	2005/05/26, 03:17 PM Personally I belt and wrap when squating over 300. I had to take a big hit on last years summer challenge due to knee and back issues. I use a good power belt one of the inzer 13mm forever belts. -------------- I am that which must be feared, worshipped and adored. The world is mine now and forever.No one holds command over me. No man. No god. I am ANIMAL! and that is enough.
DeadOnArrival Posts: 95 Joined: 2005/05/22	2005/05/26, 06:45 PM Problem with the belt is if you always use it you become dependant on it.
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/26, 07:49 PM well I use knee wraps over 400....but thats it.......i'm doing some box squats for about 4 weeks see what that does. -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
dvelswk Posts: 192 Joined: 2005/05/07	2005/05/26, 10:21 PM Box squats are awesome :). My parallel squat was 225 about 6 months ago and I couldn't get it to go up for anything. The football coach at my school suggested box squats. I did that for 3 months my parallel squat got to 365lbs. You can also go a lot higher on box squat then parallel so it gets you use to higher weight. The highest I got on box squat was 495lb, so it still brought my parallel to 365lb. I think it's a great exercise and I hope it goes well for you. Incase you don't have a spotter for squat get one. I'll have to tell you my most embarrassing time at the gym because of not having a spotter. I was going for a new max (495lb) and me being stupid as I was I didn't have a spotter. I did have the bars for a spot (you know on those spot machines that you stand in). I unracked the bar, started to squat to touch the box, and I went back too far. I kind of overshot the box and busted my ass on the ground. Luckily the spot bars were there so I didn't have 495lbs falling on me, but I couldn't squat for 2 weeks because I hurt my tail bone. I felt like a complete idiot. ;) Make sure you don't do that, lol that was very embarrassing and dangerous, wouldn't want anyone else to go through it. Take care man. -Derek
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/05/26, 10:40 PM 140 lbs in 3 months??? Something doesnt sound right there.
timmstar Posts: 426 Joined: 2003/12/08	2005/05/27, 04:50 AM sounds interesting... i thought box squats was with 60% of ur max or something? hes obviously using like 200-250% of his max?? am i doing something wrong here? 140 pound sin 3months as well ... yehhh
bigandrew Posts: 5,146 Joined: 2002/10/21	2005/05/27, 06:04 AM yea i'm dumbfounded as well......140lbs? How high was that box you was squating onto? I know that wasn't parallel. -------------- " The only true eye, is your minds eye"- plato
	2005/05/27, 07:16 AM I think he's missing the point of box squats.... box squats are supposed to be parallel or slightly below...to teach the body to descend to an appropriate depth.... doing box squats usign 1/4 range is counter effective....at least it seems to me that's what he's doing.....365 and 495 is a huge difference in weight used....
dvelswk Posts: 192 Joined: 2005/05/07	2005/05/29, 04:45 PM Well that was also when I started a cycle of test, but I didn't lose all of the muscle afterwards so I know box squat did help it a lot. The box was not high, it was about like a parallel squat (to answer BA's question).
dvelswk Posts: 192 Joined: 2005/05/07	2005/05/29, 09:26 PM Sorry, also the box squats that we did with the football team were slightly higher than parallel squatting (that's a big reason why the weight went up so fast). But when you go back to parallel squatting, since your use to doing so much more weight it is easier to do more weight as well on parallel squatting.
wrestler125 Posts: 4,619 Joined: 2004/01/27	2005/05/30, 04:33 PM Yeah, I've heard that before, similiar to rack lockouts and walkouts with weight greater than 1RM. Supposed to get you used to the heavier weight. Its an excellent technique for younger lifters, but it decreases in efficiency as experiance increases. I prefer box squats below parallel because it teaches you to explode out of the hole. Then again, deep in the squat is where I have my trouble, so I prefer to work at my weaknesses. To each his own. -------------- The best feeling in the world is the feeling you get after a tough set of squats after you step back from the power rack and throw up all over the floor.