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2006/06/03, 12:41 AM
For many of you who have "known" me for a long time on this board, you know I have railed against soy forever. Soy is a money grubbing industry in my opinion, so plentiful and cheap companies will do anything to sell it for what amounts to huge profit margins. Soy is not a "health food"....read on a post that was put up on Lyle McDonalds site....
A newsletter reader sent me this and I thought it might be of interest to some folks here
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I won't get into my personal story, and the stories of several clients about thyroid and soy (unless you want me to...and I'll be glad to email you the details) but I would suggest that you might want to use your forum to warn your readers...especially women...about ingesting unfermented soy products, isolates,extracts, and the havoc this stuff can play on thyroid function...particularly T4 to T3 conversion (which won't necessarily show up in a basic TSH test).
You may think that nothing is wrong with a little tofu here and there, but I can tell you that many women LIVE on Luna Bars, Soy "milk", veggie-burgers, soy protein isolate shakes, etc. Soy byproducts are a ubiquitous componant of processed foods...especially those labeled as "health foods" and women, as you pointed out are more vulnerable to ingesting the phytoestrogens contained in these soy derivitives. You might want to consider using your forum to educate your readers...especially women...on this matter.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/06/03, 07:45 AM
BB-Can you post this please in the womens forum?
UGH Soy...I was using a soy protein powder a few years back because I heard it was the thing for women to use...after using it for about 1 month,I got wicked headaches,nausea etc.A visit to the dr and he told me to GET OFF the soy...in his belief,he said that soy isnt made for human consumption..
Within a few days of getting off the soy I felt so much better...I stick to whey protein now..
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2006/06/03, 07:52 AM
good post... i think everyone needs 2 be educated about soy. I avoid soy completely, because i have heard so much bad stuff about it...and there seems to be soy hidden in so many everyday food products, such as bread, some crackerbread i almost bought not long ago, i've even seen soy porotein and soy oil in sushi...and consumers are buying so much thinking its actually doing them good
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2006/06/03, 02:25 PM
So are you just talking about processed soy that's in supplements or all soy products? I eat tofu occasionally and love edamame when I have sushi. I also eat a small amount of soynut butter almost daily instead of peanut butter (my bf is deathly allergic to peanut butter--I know my kiss is dangerous but add peanut butter breath and it could be deadly). But for protein I use whey. Should I really be concerned?
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2006/06/04, 12:40 PM
It could increase risk of developing clinical hypothyroidism. Keep your iodine intake adequte. This will help.
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Quoting from msmogreen:
So are you just talking about processed soy that's in supplements or all soy products? I eat tofu occasionally and love edamame when I have sushi. I also eat a small amount of soynut butter almost daily instead of peanut butter (my bf is deathly allergic to peanut butter--I know my kiss is dangerous but add peanut butter breath and it could be deadly). But for protein I use whey. Should I really be concerned?
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/06/04, 12:51 PM
As a note to that, many women who are striving for the "ultimate look/ultimate healthy diet" cut out all meat and switch everything to soy, and then to add to this cut out all salt(about the only decent source of iodine) to be even more healthy, and thus start a cascade of problems and they think they are being healthy. Even guys are doing this....was at Pikes Peak yesterday and some guy was explaining to the snack bar "cook" how he wanted no meat, all vegetarian, with soy. I just wanted to walk up and smack him, hoping to knock some sense into him. He was all of about 90 lbs. and I bet that was soaking wet!
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/06/04, 04:37 PM
I have a friend at work who is working with a personal trainer who told her not to eat dairy, at least in the beginning, and has her drinking soy milk. I really have no idea why...she isn't suggesting a vegetarian diet at all. I'll have to do more research on this and share the info with her. Also, I was hyperthyroid as a teenager (although it has been stabilized for years) and both parents are hypo (my father's thyroid burned itself out years ago), so it is definitely something for me to be aware of.
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2006/06/04, 11:10 PM
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/index.htm
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/06/04, 11:22 PM
msmogreen - this site has an amazing amount of up to date info. bb1 is usually right out in front.
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2006/06/05, 02:30 AM
Yeah, I actually found that link on my own and printed out some of the info. Enlightening and scary. I have a goiter from when I was diagnosed with Grave's disease back when I was 17. Lately a few of my coworkers noticed it and my bf thought it might be getting bigger. I'm due for a physical but it will be interesting to see if there has been any change. Although I don't consume mass quantities of soy, still might be something I want to avoid. In my reading I learned that millet was well known for a similar effect--and a I do occasionally eat millet--but not anymore!
Thanks for the info.
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2006/06/05, 10:57 AM
I could list a ton of doctors who are against soy. Pretty overwhelming evidence. I say at the very least, moderation is in order.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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2006/06/07, 04:53 PM
I get Lyles newsletter each week, and he explains things rather well on the subject of thryroid as related to soy...read on....
Due to the controversy over soy protein, I started digging a little bit deeper into this issue and felt it was an issue worth addressing in the newsletter.
To give readers a brief background on the topic, the thyroid gland releases two primary hormones T4 and T3 in a ratio of roughly 80:20 and does so in response to the hormone TSH (thyroid stimulating hormone). Most T3 is actually made in other tissues (especially the liver) from the metabolism of T4. T3, along with the catecholamine (adrenaline/noradrenaline or epinephrine/norepinephrine depending on which side of the pond you're on) are two of the primary regulators of human metabolic rate. I should mention that iodine intake plays a crucial role in thyroid metabolism with inadequate intake of iodine causing thyroid problems.
Soy proteins are known to contain hormonal mimics called phytoestrogens. This include genistien, daidzein and others. A great deal of controversy exists over the impact of these types of compounds in the human diet; while phytoestrogens may have some beneficial effects (especially in post-menopausal women for whom low estrogen can predispose towards heart disease and bone loss) other research shows negative impacts. The effect of phytoestrogens in men is far less studied and understood. There is likely to be a sex and population specific response to these compounds.
Without getting into the myriad arguments involved over soy proteins, I want to focus on the thyroid issue since that's the main topic of the above review paper.
Early work, in animals, had supported the idea that soy proteins could actually increase thyroid (mainly T4) output but the above work suggests a very different effect in humans (other animal research also shows a negative impact of soy protein, primarily the isoflavones/phytoestrogens present in soy).
The above review is a current examination of the topic and concludes that, for individuals with normal thyroid functioning, soy has little impact. However, in individuals with pre-existing low-thyroid (hypothyroid) symptoms, soy proteins can exert a negative impact. Research has shown that soy protein intake may increase the dose of thyroid medication needed and another review (Doerge DR, 2002). has shown, using mainly animal work, that the phytoestrogens in soy can impair the enzyme (thyroid peroxidase) responsible for proper thyroid hormone production. That same review found that while soy protein itself could not induce a hypothyroid state, a high phytoestrogen intake coupled with a low iodine intake could.
I bring up this last point because the main provider of iodine in the modern diet is iodized salt and even there, diet surveys have shown a downward trend in overall iodine intake (due to a reliance on processed food and less iodinization of salt). I could see a high intake of soy products (which are being used to fortify some foods such as cereals and protein bars, in addition to the use of soy protein powders) coupled with a misguided attempt to minimize salt intake (often seen in athletes/bodybuilders who are obsessed with some notion of eating 'clean') potentially causing problems with overall thyroid metabolism.
So we have several different issues at stake here. It seems obvious that individuals with pre-existing thyroid problems (and note that women, the main target for soy foods, are more likely to have low thyroid levels) should limit their soy protein intakes. As well, someone who is steadfastly trying to avoid salt may want to limit their intake of soy protein to avoid any potential problems. If soy protein is consumed in large quantities, adequate iodine intake will be necessary.
So...recommendations. First and foremost realize that the issue is not with soy per se but rather with the phytoestrogens found in soy. Whether isolated soy proteins (such as powders or what is used to fortify some cereals and protein bars) even contain large amounts of the phytoestrogens is up to debate; isolated soy protein (powder or otherwise) is likely to be different from soy containing foods (such as soy beans, tofu, tempeh, etc).
Trying to avoid every last bit of soy intake (for example, a typical soy protein fortified cereal may contain a few grams at most of soy) seems misguided. Clearly, living on nothing but soy foods and soy fortified products is misguided as well. To me a happy medium seems the best; assuming no pre-existing thyroid problems, soy products are probably safe in some moderation. Just don't make them the sole source of your protein; there are plenty enough other high quality protein powders out there including whey, casein and milk powder.
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Maximus from Gladiator....Strength and Honor!
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