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Standing Lateral Raises

jrchomrk Posts: 60 Joined: 2003/03/16	2003/05/10, 04:30 PM I'm amazed at how tough these are, even after two months of working out! Anyway, after two or three sets with about 10 or 15 lbs, it becomes extremely tough for me to do both arms together. Is it alright to do one side at a time? (without swinging them up, of course) Or is there more of a benefit to doing both arms/shoulders together?
jbennett Posts: 1,558 Joined: 2001/02/28	2003/05/10, 04:50 PM I don't workout because its easy. The more difficult it becomes to lift the weight, the more muscle fibers are recruited to actually lift it. This will help you attain the results you're looking for (according to your profile). Using both arms/shoulders together when doing lateral delt raises will help you balance better. I would suggest continuing to use that method. You can do it one shoulder at a time, but I personally do not prefer it. -------------- --JBennett "I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!" "Pain is only weakness leaving the body." "Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
Ogun Posts: 559 Joined: 2002/08/11	2003/05/10, 05:14 PM They are difficult. I've been doing them for a year and I'm up to 25lbs. I do 220lbs on the machine shoulder raise, but those pads rest just above the elbow. You're doing the right thing, just make sure you mix it up some if you get stuck. In other words, hi weight, low rep, then lower weight, high rep. That'll move you through sticking points, and I'd recommend varying from one arm at a time to both. Variety is the spice of gain. :D -------------- --There are no versions of the truth.-- Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park II
jrchomrk Posts: 60 Joined: 2003/03/16	2003/05/10, 06:09 PM Thanks for the suggestions. You're right, jbennett. If it is easy, that just means I'm not going hard enough!
bb1fit Posts: 11,105 Joined: 2001/06/30	2003/05/10, 07:34 PM Well, one alternate you may try. I found that I can go with more weight while keeping form intact with doing single side cable laterals. The cable in this case forces you to stay in a range of motion. If you go up with dumbbells, you have a tendency to start swinging and cheating. You may want to try this. On each set, start with the opposite arm. I also find that I can contract and hold the muscle on the last rep for a great burn, (more time under tension), for increased strengthening. The delts are not a very large muscle, so big weight is not so important. But form is. Just a suggestion, but works very well. -------------- As far as genetics go, the skies the limit. You are limited only by your mental perception of it. Ron
Carivan Posts: 8,542 Joined: 2002/01/20	2003/05/10, 08:07 PM If I can add to all this......you might want to try doing your reps with 2 different weights. Example:::: set of 12 reps with 20lb db's but the last 4 of the 12 you drop the weight to 15. (Those #'s are just an example as I don't know your individual curcumstances).You will probably keep better form, and still feel it. But like JB said, there is no way to get muscle without rebuilding. -------------- We must become the change we want to see. Ivan Montreal Canada (aka SpongeBob Square Pants to some!)
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2003/05/11, 10:14 PM I have to say that after 6+ years of really trying I moved past the 25 to 30 lbs on this exercise. It took another 2-3 years to moves from 30 -35lbs and in my last strength cycle I was doing them with 40 on my last set with ok to good form. I say ok cause I did "swing" a little to do them. My form otherwise was perfect. I found with these that staying consistent is key. Stay light till it is very easy then move up, but stay with them. -------------- deadlifts rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!
	2003/05/12, 09:09 AM Wow, I thought I was the only one who had trouble with these. I never see anyone doing these at the gym and I can imagine it looks silly seeing a guy struggle with 15lb dumbells but I have the same dillema. But yet for some reason I really like this exercise... Maybe because it is one of the toughest exercises for me.
skinnyrobin Posts: 224 Joined: 2002/05/10	2003/05/12, 03:12 PM i agree, its one of my favorite exercises
kirby00 Posts: 238 Joined: 2002/11/05	2003/05/12, 07:10 PM This one *is* tough! Another variation is what I call "T's" (when I'm writing them in my notebook) - I bring my arms up in front of my body (Frankenstein-esque) then out to the sides and down. Don't worry about using lighter weights than you might use for other muscles! I know it's been discussed in the women's forum - we think those guys (The "I must use heavy weights to look tough even though my form is breaking my back, arm, leg, making me scream like a little girl" guys") look completely ridiculous compared to the ones who are doing things properly! -Krb
azredhead57 Posts: 1,651 Joined: 2003/04/11	2003/05/13, 12:06 PM Just another reason I love this site. I always think I just have really weak shoulders since I have only moved from 8# up to 12.5# in 2 years. I had a rotator cuff problem for a while and had to lay off and then start light again, but I'm glad to hear they are hard for everyone else too. Maybe that is why my husband doesn't like to do them, cuz he can't go heavy. I'll have to have him read this post. Thanks all.
jhadams Posts: 175 Joined: 2003/03/27	2003/05/14, 10:00 PM azred I was really worried because I had bursitis (sp?) in the right shoulder, but I found out after two weeks I was quite fine. I do my 2 sets of 12 reps at 15 and my 2 sets of 10 reps at 20. After the first set of 20, I wait 90 seconds instead of my normal 60 to ensure form. I find if you keep your legs slight bend at the knees and your back straight they are a bit easier....
Ogun Posts: 559 Joined: 2002/08/11	2003/05/14, 10:19 PM I agree on form jhadams...if you are looking in a mirror doing these, all you'll notice is how you have "bitter beer face," and you'll lose focus on form. When attentive, you'll stand taller, spread feet apart to about shoulder width, and not hunch over, and never swing. Very important :D -------------- --There are no versions of the truth.-- Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park II
jhadams Posts: 175 Joined: 2003/03/27	2003/05/15, 10:46 AM Are you saying I should start drinking keystones during my workouts? LOL
azredhead57 Posts: 1,651 Joined: 2003/04/11	2003/05/15, 02:01 PM Thanks jh, I've been working out with my husband lately and I seem to be progressing better since we push each other. I'm proud to say when I did standing laterals yesterday, I did my last set of 8reps with the 15#. Hooray for me!
skinnyrobin Posts: 224 Joined: 2002/05/10	2003/05/16, 09:44 AM should you do them with your feet shoulder-width apart? i always put them together...
Ogun Posts: 559 Joined: 2002/08/11	2003/05/16, 10:06 AM I've always read shoulder-width but I think it's just for balance: check here http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/DeltoidLateral/DBLateralRaise.html -------------- --There are no versions of the truth.-- Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park II
7707mutt Posts: 7,686 Joined: 2002/06/18	2003/05/16, 10:10 AM The best way is either shoulder width or a natural "stance" feet together is not a stable platform from which to do this. Also keep your knees slightly bent for this as well -------------- deadlifts rule!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bb1fit Posts: 11,105 Joined: 2001/06/30	2003/05/16, 12:07 PM Has anyone not tried these with the cable? They are excellent for isolation. You are forced so you cannot cheat, put one hand behind your back, shoulder width stance, and pull the cable straight out with an underhand grip. You can hold each rep, great isolation. after say 10, then simply turn around 180 and do the other side. Everyone is hung up on free weights, and normally rightly so, but in some cases the pulleys and machines offer some great distinct advantages. This is one of them. -------------- As far as genetics go, the skies the limit. You are limited only by your mental perception of it. Ron
skinnyrobin Posts: 224 Joined: 2002/05/10	2003/05/18, 10:06 AM I checked out that site ogun reccommended (thanks!-i like it), and it says there you have to bend over at your waist a little, as shown in the animation. i don't want to question the form used there, but it is different to the form explained on ft. which way is the right one?
Ogun Posts: 559 Joined: 2002/08/11	2003/05/18, 11:16 AM I wasn't trying to cause any dichotomy in method, but I simply refer to that site til these get animated, and they have good descriptions of how every muscle is used. I don't think either would hurt; there's a few right ways to do them and a few million wrong ways to do them :D -------------- --There are no versions of the truth.-- Jeff Goldblum, Jurassic Park II
jhadams Posts: 175 Joined: 2003/03/27	2003/05/19, 10:06 AM I end up bending forward slightly at the waist (mostly for balance) and bending the knees slightly. I work out at home bb1fit so dont have access to a cable system on my current bench (hoping the wife will let me buy a different bench station that does have cable pulls as one of the added features!) Way to go azred! Next you do the 15's all the way through and finish with a 20!! :)
bri9475 Posts: 3 Joined: 2008/01/24	2008/01/30, 04:34 PM whats the difference between seated machine lateral raises and standing lateral raises ? and do you get the same outcome ? i found i can do alot more weight on the machine ehy is that? which is better for me the beginner standing i could only do 15 reps at 25 lbs then i switched to the machine and did 15 reps at 100 lbs and 15 reps at 80 lbs to failure what did i do wrong? -------------- Brian Onuskanych (RADAR)
merrillj Posts: 197 Joined: 2007/06/28	2008/01/31, 04:03 AM The machine provides better leverage on the weight. If it is the same machine I am thinking of the pads that you push against are close to your elbows vs. the dumbbell being at the end of your arm. The lever is your arm. If the lever is longer i.e. the weight being farther down your arm then the same weight will feel heavier. I hope that makes sense to you. Most of the time I would choose the free weight variety over a machine because it is easier to move in a more natural range of motion.
asimmer Posts: 8,201 Joined: 2003/01/07	2008/01/31, 08:44 AM yep - the machine does alot of work for you. Going back to the original post (I know, years old)... When you do lateral movements you are using a lot less muscle directly than when you do pressses overhead. This is why it is hareder and you have to use less weight. Doing seated db laterals is harder - you can't swing the weight as much. Doing cables is another good alternative - again, be sure not to swing it up, always go light (leave the ego at the door) enough that you can feel the muscle doing the work, not so you have to swing and cheat and use your bodyweight. The most recent variation I have tried of these is side-leaning - you hang onto a post with the non working arm and lean away, then do the raises (one side at a time), definitely feels different, not sure how much more work the muscles are getting... Anyhow - machines can be useful but I prefer free weights - that way (as merrillj pointed out) you have your natural range of motion and you have to stabilize everything, so it is more complete work for your muscles and applies better to real life strength. -------------- Permanence, perseverance and persistence in spite of all obstacles, discouragements, and impossibilities: It is this, that in all things distinguishes the strong soul from the weak. Thomas Carlyle