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2007/04/27, 12:29 AM
I've recently gotten back into weight training with intent of making gains rather than just making sure I can resist the infamous college freshman 15. Our school has a great gym, 5 brand spanking new squat racks in a mirrored room that lets you monitor your form from all angles.
My leg days are currently
1/2 mile warm up jog + brief stretching.
4x8 Squats @ 205
4x8 Deadlifts @ 155
Machines
Quad leg lifts
Hamstring/glute lifts
Calves
My goal is to increase leg strength and mass. Most people I see who have respectable squats and deadlifts compared to my rather everage ones seem to incorporate powercleans into their routine. The lift looks rather complicated, and easy to mess up and injure yourself unless you have the form down perfectly. Is it worth the hassle?
I'd like to one day squat 300lbs for 12 reps and Deadlift 225 or so for 12 reps as well. Should I add the powerclean into this?
Also a question about squat form. I go far enough down that my quads are roughly parallel with the floor with a stance about 1.5-2 times my shoulder width, and keep my head looking at the ceiling to keep my butt out? Is this about right? A friend of mine insists that there is no need to go down this far but I doubt his advice as my knees feel fine, and a full range of motion is always better than limited range but more weight.
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2007/04/27, 12:55 AM
I'd put the jog and stretching AFTER your lifting.
If you can learn to do a power clean, then do it. But I refuse to encourage anyone to do it without proper coaching. Even experianced lifters still hurt themselves occasionally. Just last summer I caught a squat clean wrong and it tore the tendons through my hand.
If you can't learn them properly, speed deadlifts might be a valuable alternative.
If you can do it, go deeper. You're more likely to hurt your knees with a shallow squat and too much weight. Also, you don't have to look UP, just make sure to keep your head back.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/12, 12:08 AM
Cleans and all Oly lifts are about technique. Pratice movemens with a stick or dowel and master the technique before adding substantial weight.
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John Izzo, NSc, NASM-CPT, PES
Founder, www.standAPARTfitness.com
www.EyeOfTheTrainer.com
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2007/05/21, 08:39 PM
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Quoting from wrestler125:
If you can't learn them properly, speed deadlifts might be a valuable alternative.
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Hey Wrestler125, what are speed deadlifts? I'd love a good alternative but haven't heard of these yet. THANKS!
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2007/05/21, 09:35 PM
Doing 1 rep on deadlifts...as fast as possible. Usualy you use 30-50% of your max.
Goal is to stand up as fast as possible.
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\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
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2007/05/21, 09:36 PM
not fun to do in comercial gyms..since most don't have rubberized plats. Therefore you can't just drop it after you lock it out.
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\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
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2007/05/22, 11:47 AM
I'd recommend 55-70% on speed deadlifts. You're not using accomidating resistance, and it's a naturally fast movement.
You can do something like 8 sets of 1 rep, keeping your rest periods short. Also, since the weight won't be heavy, you can focus on your form here.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/22, 11:31 PM
wow 70%?
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\"The eight laws of learning are explanation, demonstration, imitation, repetition, repetition, repetition, repetition, and repetition\"
You have to learn to follow, before you can lead.
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2007/05/22, 11:38 PM
I am NOT trying to ruffle feathers here, but why would you want to increase the speed at which you did ANY lift without ensuring proper form beforehand?!?!?!
Sounds like an injury waiting to happen.
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2007/05/23, 12:34 AM
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Quoting from conan_0822:
I am NOT trying to ruffle feathers here, but why would you want to increase the speed at which you did ANY lift without ensuring proper form beforehand?!?!?!
Sounds like an injury waiting to happen.
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I'm not sure I actually understand what you're asking? If you're asking what I think your saying, I'm pretty sure you can answer it own your own.
As for 70% being high, if you've ever done them, you definately would notice that 50% is way to light. Also, since you usually do singles, you can increase the weight. Keep in mind, DE cycles will be higher in weight for beginners.
I'm pretty sure westside recommends 60-70% for 6-8 singles.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/23, 12:38 AM
Ok, I think I get it now Conan. You're seeing form as a black and white thing. It isn't.
Obviously, a certain degree of proper form has to be used with any lift, but that holds more true for max effort work than speed work, IMO. However, if you can DL properly, than you will find a deadlift at 70% to be even easier.
Also, when I say IMPROVE form, I don't mean learn. I mean improve. As in your form should be continually improving, evolving. I use DE DL to focus on anything I need to change (falling back more, line of pull, weight on heels, etc). Proper form is not a static thing, it will change continually. A good powerlifter is constantly focusing on improvements.
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Mortal by birth.
Strongman by the grace of god.
Blood Guts Sweat Chalk
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2007/05/23, 02:04 AM
Maybe I am thinking from more of a "beginners" perspective.
To me, my form on ANY exercise is not something I would bet money on. And in that frame of mind, I would not think speeding up the movement would be something I'd be willing to do.
I don't mean to take away from the original direction of the question, was just my interpretation.
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