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2003/03/24, 02:54 PM
My opinion may mean very little, but last night as I drove home from our comp. I came across a radio station that was nothing but the War. It was the first time that I have really had time to listen to anything on it. Well after I heard that our boys who were prisoners of war had been shot square in the forehead, execution style, I was so sad for them and their familys. I have have two grown sons that could be in the position over there that many of our sons are right now. I pray for our boys and girls over there and I pray for their familys. I pray for all involved, that as many that can will return home safe. For the ones that don't, I thank you for the life you have given for my country and my freedom. And to you President Bush, I thank you for having the guts to try and end this thing once and for all. I want my grandchildren to feel safe, I want my children to feel safe and until this man is put down none of us can feel safe. I am for the war and for the freedom it stands for. There or here!!!!
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I will lift my own weight someday!!!!!
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2003/03/24, 05:16 PM
Because of war-We have earned the freedom that all of us now enjoy.
We have to fight for our rights-yeah its ugly, but its the only way.
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"Get everthing you want--just make a little change now"
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2003/03/24, 06:54 PM
It is because of the soldier that we have the rights we do! Back them and honor them! And if you do that, you also have to honor President Bush, who some seem to forget is not only President, but Commander in Chief! God bless America! No matter your stance on the war, we are in it and we should back our country 100%. Those who want to be human sheilds, you have that right because of the soldier. So feel free to go!
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The one goal you will NEVER achieve is the one you never attempt.
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2003/03/24, 07:56 PM
I am still against war, but....I support your US troops and prey for them. My heart is where yours is, I'm sure Canada (government) will wake up.
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/24, 08:35 PM
I am still against war also but YES I back the troops 100%. They have the courage and guts to defend this nation and for that I am greatful.
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2003/03/24, 09:26 PM
Well, it seems like since we have gone to war, a lot of people have started to show more support for us. I thank you very much and can speak for my friends that are over there. With the US people supporting us, it helps to do what we do. When American's down us, it is very hard to stay positive. With our brothers and sisters over there, they need all the support they can get. Times are tough for them and especially for their families. They stayed glued to the television in hopes to see a glimpse or her some news on their loved ones. One more thing..............
I was completely upset with the Academy Awards last night. These so called stars (icons) really disappointed me by making their comments. They probably have no clue what is going on or don't know anyone personally over there, because I have a feeling if they did, they would think a bit different. Please show your support in every way that you can because it is very hard to have friends and family so far away and not know how they are. Pray for the families most of all because this is why we joined and we are more than prepared for the outcome, but it is definitely hard for the families.
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2003/03/24, 10:17 PM
Those liberal hollywood dopes don't have a clue what goes on in real life! They are the same ones who want to tell me what to drive, while I wonder how much gas their limo's and Bentleys use!! Top of the list, that Susan Sarandon, Jane fonda, Sean Penn, Martin Sheen, Barbara Striesand, Alec Baldwin..let them see how much their movies make over there in Iraq! I know I will do my best to NEVER go to any of their movies again! They are not America...the common guy, you, me, we are America! The guy with the car whose windows won't roll down, the guy who gets in his car on the passengers side because the drivers side door is broke. These are the real Americans. These are the ones fighting to give those Hollywood clowns the right to their views. To all in the service and doing your duty to defend this country and our way of life, may God be with you and bring you all home safe and sound.
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The one goal you will NEVER achieve is the one you never attempt.
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2003/03/26, 12:36 AM
So true BB1fit ..So true!!!!
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2003/03/26, 12:39 AM
I really dont understand how 1 could be against it every 1 has there own views but jeez there is even an uprising in their own city,that should tell you something.....
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2003/03/26, 05:49 AM
I totally agree mrmagical
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2003/03/26, 10:47 PM
Healing Our World: Weekly Comment
By Jackie Alan Giuliano, Ph.D. (Environment News Service)
The television and radio network reporters who are “embedded” with U.S. troops that are currently invading Iraq are telling us a lot about the wondrous military might of America. The world has heard a lot about the columns of tanks, cruise missiles, buildings being destroyed, and oil wells, but we have heard little of the human cost. Robert Fisk, in Baghdad for “The Independent,” reported today that one of the first Iraqi casualties was a taxi driver who was blown to pieces in the first American raid on Baghdad yesterday morning.
Detailing the first day of the U.S. “Shock and Awe” campaign against Baghdad, Fisk said, “The sheer violence of it, the howl of air raid sirens and the air-cutting fall of the missiles carried its own political message; not just to President Saddam but to the rest of the world. We are the superpower, those explosions said last night. This is how we do business. This is how we take our revenge for 11 September.”
In an invasion that makes one think of the campaigns of the Roman Legion centuries ago, the United States has begun waging war against not only a cruel dictator, but thousands of innocent people, a fragile environment, and the Muslim world. Where was the might of the U.S. when Hussein gassed over 5,000 of his people in the early 1990s? And so far, the destructive might of Iraq that the Bush administration has been ranting about for months is nowhere to be seen. But what we will see, says the British health professional organization Medact, is that as many as 260,000 Iraqis could die immediately from a U.S. attack, while another 200,000 deaths would result from famine and disease. The United Nations fears that an attack would create a flood of 900,000 refugees.
And the world better get used to it
On September 17, 2002, twenty months after President George W. Bush took office, he released the 33 page "National Security Strategy of the United States." This innocuous document received little media attention, but in its pages are details of how the administration will be conducting a radically new, aggressive approach to national security. This new strategy calls for pre-emptive strikes against hostile states and terror groups, and it states that the U.S. "will not hesitate to act alone, if necessary, to exercise our right of self-defense by acting pre-emptively."
The document also reveals how diplomacy and foreign aid can and should be used to project American values, including "a battle for the future of the Muslim world." The PBS program “Frontline” discussed this document and its profound ramifications on a program called “The War Behind Closed Doors,” aired earlier this month.
Senator Robert Byrd summed up this new policy in his speech that was delivered on the floor of the U.S. Senate on March 19 at 3:45pm. He said, “Instead of reasoning with those with whom we disagree, we demand obedience or threaten recrimination. Instead of isolating Saddam Hussein, we seem to have isolated ourselves. We proclaim a new doctrine of pre-emption which is understood by few and feared by many. We say that the United States has the right to turn its fire power on any corner of the globe which might be suspect in the war on terrorism. We assert that right without the sanction of any international body. As a result, the world has become a much more dangerous place.”
In December 2002, another Bush administration report claimed that the U.S. "reserves the right to respond with overwhelming force ... to the use of WMD against the U.S., our forces abroad, and friends and allies." Bush administration officials said that the threat of a nuclear first strike did not constitute a policy change. Millions of people all over the world are protesting the first strike against Iraq for many reasons, but the most compelling list of reasons I have seen is at the “Environmentalists Against War” website.
--An attack on Iraq could kill nearly 500,000 people. Most of the people killed would be innocent civilians.
--War destroys human settlements and native habitats. War destroys wildlife and contaminates the land, air and water. The damage can last for generations.
--U.S. clusterbombs, thermobaric explosions, electromagnetic bursts and weapons made with depleted uranium are indiscriminate weapons of mass destruction.
--Bombs pollute, poisoning the land with unexploded shells and toxic chemicals. Bombs can't locate or destroy hidden chemical or biological weapons (CBW), but they can cause the uncontrolled spread of deadly CBW agents.
--Fighting a war for oil is ultimately self-defeating.
--Pre-emptive attacks are acts of aggression.
--Aggression invites retaliation.
--Increased military spending to control access to the fuel that powers our oil-based economy drains funds from critical social, educational, medical and environmental needs.
--Militarization and the war on terrorism are eroding America's freedoms at home.
The U.S. has threatened to strike Iraq with nuclear weapons – the ultimate weapons of mass destruction.
Details about each reason are given at the website - see link below.
The Corporate Watch website, in a special report released on Thursday, told of a sweet deal between the U.S. Defense Department and Vice President Dick Cheney’s company, Halliburton. Corporate Watch says, “As the first bombs rain down on Baghdad, CorpWatch has learned that thousands of employees of Halliburton, Vice President Dick Cheney's former company, are working alongside U.S. troops in Kuwait and Turkey under a package deal worth close to a billion dollars. According to U.S Army sources, they are building tent cities and providing logistical support for the war in Iraq in addition to other hot spots in the "war on terrorism."
The report goes on to say that “Cheney served as chief executive of Halliburton until he stepped down to become George W. Bush's running mate in the 2000 presidential race. Today he still draws compensation of up to a million dollars a year from the company, although his spokesperson denies that the White House helped the company win the contract.”
Bill Berkowitz, in a piece written for the Working for Change website on March 19, predicted the intense pressure that has begun to attempt to silence the anti-war movement. Berkowitz said, “If massive protests continue after U.S. bombs start pounding Iraq, expect the anti-war movement to be lambasted by President Bush's pro-war minions. Radio and television pundits will crank up the volume, labeling protests un-patriotic and anti-American.
Some may equate dissent with treason. Expect long-winded one-sided debates on the Fox News Channel, MSNBC and CNN focusing on the nature of treason.” He called it exactly.
He went on to say, “Over the past few months, as the US moved closer to war, pro-war columnists and radio and television gas bags began a campaign to demonize protesters, labeling them anti-American, Communists, or apologists for Hussein.” Berkowitz says “Silence will be our biggest enemy.”
Don’t let the pundits and war mongers silence you. And don’t be intimidated by the cries of “support our troops” from the families of soldiers. What else can they say when a loved one is forced to go and kill people who they don’t even know and risk death every day. These families have to believe that they are being sent for the right reasons. Any other possibility would be too painful for them to bear. But do remind them that those people being shot and bombed aren’t much different from the enlisted U.S. soldier just doing what they are told. And remind them also that ending war is the best way to support the troops.
A democratic way of life demands that we speak out, especially in times of turmoil and war. The U.S. “Constitution” and “Bill of Rights” do not say that free speech is only allowed in peacetime. Seek the truth always, expose atrocities. Wear your values proudly and don’t be intimidated by those who hold violence dear.
Wanting peace is NOT unpatriotic
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2003/03/26, 11:12 PM
You know the media would have us believe right now that we are losing the war! Because in 5 days it is not over! How fast the liberal media can turn. We have in 5 days done astounding things, unprecedented in modern time. We have driven with 50 miles of Bagdhad! What do they want! We lost thousands of lives on 9-11, are we to wait for another one before we make our people safe? A pre-emptive strike was necessary, and I say if it takes killing hundreds of Iraqi citizens, better that than one more American life lost. I don't remember ever hearing any concern over WW2 about civilian casualties. It was meet and destroy the enemy, by whatever need be. I heard today there were over 14,000 I believe it was civilians lives lost in the Normandy invasion day, did anyone say anything then? This is war, we are not the war mongers. These terrorist nations and nations that support terrorism leave no room for any way out. I can only think, better them than me or my family or anyone I know. You are right in your last line, free speech is allowed anytime. But never forget the reason you have free speech! We want peace, some will not let us or do not want us to have it. To this end, we must do what we have to do to insure it.
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The one goal you will NEVER achieve is the one you never attempt.
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2003/03/27, 05:08 PM
fyi: this was taken from the amnesty international website. a report on human rights violations in iraq dated in August 2001.
"Victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks," said Amnesty International, based on interviews with hundreds of torture victims in Iraq over the years. "Some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."
Other methods of torture include extinguishing of cigarettes on various parts of the body, extraction of finger nails and toenails and piercing of the hands with an electric drill. Some have been sexually abused and others have had objects, including broken bottles, forced into their anus. In addition to physical torture, detainees have been threatened with rape and subjected to mock executions.
Over the years many victims of torture have been Shia Muslims from Baghdad or from Southern Iraq. The fate of al-Shaikh Nazzar Kadhim al-Bahadli, a 29-year-old theology student from Saddam City, a district of Baghdad, is typical. He was arrested in 1999 and was tortured for long periods in the building of Saddam City Security Directorate. His wife, father and mother were reportedly brought to the building in August 1999 and were tortured in front of him to force him to confess to being one of those responsible for the April 1999 disturbances in Saddam City. He was said to have confessed in order to spare his relatives any further torture. They were released following his confession but he was sentenced to death later and executed at the beginning of 2001.
Torture is used against other political opponents and army and security officers suspected of dissidence or involvement in coup attempts. Amnesty International's report also documents torture, ill-treatment and extra-judicial executions of women.
A 25-year-old woman known as "Um Haydar" was beheaded in the street without charge or trial at the end of December 2000 after her husband, who was suspected by the authorities of involvement in Islamist armed activities, fled the country. Um Haydar was taken from her house in al-Karrada district, in front of her children and mother-in-law, by men belonging to Fedaiyye Saddam. Two men held her by the arms and a third pulled her head from behind and beheaded her in front of the residents. The beheading was also witnessed by members of the ruling Ba'ath Party in the area. The security men took the body and the head in a plastic bag and took away the children and mother-in-law. Their fate remains unknown.
The report stresses that torture in Iraq is also practised through various judicial punishments, which were introduced in the mid-1990s ostensibly to stem the increase in the crime rate that the Government attributed to the impact of economic sanctions imposed on the country since 1990. These 'judicial punishments,' including amputation of hand and foot, branding of forehead and cutting off of the ears, used to be publicized by the Iraqi media. Such publicity became rarer since the end of 1996, following international condemnation of these punishments.
Amnesty International's recommendations to the Iraqi authorities include renewed calls to ratify and implement fully in domestic law and practice the UN Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment; repeal all decrees imposing punishments amounting to torture; set up an independent body to undertake impartial investigations into all allegations of torture and bring to justice anyone responsible for serious violations; and put an end to all extra-judicial executions.
"The systematic torture and climate of fear that have prevailed in Iraq for so many years must be brought to an end," Amnesty International said. "The continuing scale and severity of human suffering must not be allowed to continue."
Read the Report: Iraq: Systematic torture of political prisoners
\ENDS
public document
****************************************
For more information please call Amnesty International's press office in London, UK, on +44 20 7413 5566
Amnesty International, 1 Easton St., London WC1X 0DW web : http://www.amnesty.org
Related Documents
(MDE 14/051/2003) Iraq: Amnesty International Daily Digest - March 27 2003
(MDE 14/050/2003) Iraq: Risk to civilians if landmines and cluster bombs used
(MDE 14/048/2003) Iraq: Amnesty International Daily Digest - March 26 2003
(MDE 14/046/2003) Iraq: Bombing of Iraqi state television
(MDE 14/044/2003) Iraq: Fear of war crimes by both sides
(MDE 14/049/2003) Iraq: Investigate civilian deaths
© Copyright Amnesty International
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2003/03/27, 05:16 PM
I have no doubt anymore that we are doing the right thing. better late than never. these insane dictators need to go, and if we're the only ones who have the balls to stand up and do it, then so be it. North Korea and Iran need to know that if you screw with us we will take you out!
SPEAK SOFTLY AND CARRY A BIG STICK! should be our motto!
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2003/03/27, 05:49 PM
I have more and more doubt each day about the war each day...Have you ever looked at it from there point of view. A iraqi was on the news and this was his comment. he said we dont like Saddam and his ruling but we sure dont like the US for what they are doing. Just try to look like the rest of the world sees and you will know why they hate us. I agree that they sometimes are just jealous but we really do some awful things to other countries. We feel the need to always stick are noses in places we dont belong.
bb1fit-you say that, quoting from your about statement. "A pre-emptive strike was necessary, and I say if it takes killing hundreds of Iraqi citizens, better that than one more American life lost"
My point is that now they will for sure use their weapons of mass destruction seeing that we have attacked them. I mean looking at it from their side of course they will use them. Now instead of the world behind us it will just be Americans that they will intend to target with biological and chemical weapons. We look like assholes once again and by going into this war like we did makes us look even worse to foreign countries that already hate us. This wont make us safer it should put more fear in us that we will now for surely be that traget of any terrorist attacks. People working in office buildings and places back east now have to practice bomb and biological drills at work and even have to buy gas masks. BUT THIS WAR IS TO ELIMINATE TERROR?
I dont see it.
dancenyshopper- also taking in your points I would like to throw my opinion on this
Obviously Saddam and his sons are evil men. I agree that people shouldnt have to live like that. But guess what...that same kind of cruel punishment has been going on in africa for more years than Saddam has been under his cruel reign. But why do we feel the need to stop Saddam...oh that is right he has oil which adds to the fact we want to be there.
And once we get Saddam out who says the next leader wont be just like him?
there are so many negatives of this war and I feel strongly that we shouldnt be there. I respect all of you and your feelings but I just felt I needed to share my views.
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2003/03/27, 06:18 PM
Remeber , I am against war like I said previously, but what has to be done is being done.On a Cdn station today I heard this report. An Iraqi citezen left to bleed to death after his tougue was cut out, because he didn't want to fight for Saddam.
It is a war against a regime and not a people. If I was an american.......
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/27, 06:19 PM
Remember , I am against war like I said previously, but what has to be done is being done.On a Cdn station today I heard this report. An Iraqi citizen left to bleed to death tied to a pole in a town square, after his tougue was cut out, because he didn't want to fight for Saddam.
It is a war against a regime and not a people. If I was an american.......! Any regime or government that does this, should be decapitated.
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/27, 07:12 PM
lewdog: i respect your view also. and you're right. im sure a big chunk of this might have something to do with oil. i have 2 vehicles and need them to get around. what do you drive? are are you willing to give it up? but i also think alot of it has to do with our security. i don't think we would be there if 9-11 had never happened. the problem is these middle east countries, and Africa, are so barbaric. they live in the middle ages for gods sake. and its that way because of their leaders/dictators. and it affects us now, whether we like it or not. its a global society, very different than 30 years ago. I would like to think that taking out saddam is PREVENTING a 3rd world war. dictators started World War 1 and 2. Have we learned nothing from that?
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2003/03/27, 07:32 PM
taking Saddam out may prevent a 3rd world war, but by using this force with open ourselves up to more terrorists attacks. We are not stopping the threat of terror but more or less provoking it. We are attacking a country based on the POSSIBLE THREAT of weapons and betting that they do have them they sure are going to use them now.
Sure dictators started world wars 1 and 2 but we sure are making the trouble in this one.
Scenerios;
1. We fight the war like we are now and end up finding their weapons--American lives will be lost
2. we fight a war like we are now and no weapons are found--american lives are lost
3. we dont go to war and they use weapons on us--american lives are lost
4.we fight a war with world support---and not only american lives are lost but everyone is in it together
5 we dont fight a war and saddam never does anything-
Saddam knew that American would start a war with him, so why wouldnt he break the rules and posse weapons he isnt supposed to.
These are the kinds of choices that will one day come back and haunt us. the day when we need foreign support and no one is their for us because of the way we force our views on the rest of the world.
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2003/03/27, 07:38 PM
I would also like to add to all you war supporters...I hope you are right in why we are there and we accomplish what we are there to do, I wouldnt mind at all having all of you say I told you so.
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2003/03/27, 08:16 PM
Only history will tell us in the end who was right and who was wrong. Whether you are a liberal who has never gotten past the 60's who stages a "die in" laying down in front of cars, or a conservative red white and blue flag waver, for now, God bless the USofA, and do what needs to be done! We are at war, and support our great nation and our wonderful soldiers who are putting their lives on the line for us.
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The one goal you will NEVER achieve is the one you never attempt.
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2003/07/17, 01:14 PM
Fu** Bush!!!!! That's all there is to it. He is an idiot, maniac, decieving, lying, Republican. I hate all this jingoistic bullshi*. It's ridiculous.
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2003/07/17, 01:52 PM
archetype....I'm surprised you haven't been called to appear on CNN's Crossfire with that astute analysis. Anyway, it's pretty much a foregone conclusion that Bush is no rocket scientist, and his antiquated "shoot em up in God's name" stuff does scare me at times. He is, however, our President, and we should understand the incredibly difficult situation he's in. I'm interested to see what comes of the investigation regarding our intelligence concerning weapons of mass destruction; seems to me that someone in the Joint Chiefs jumped the gun and made an error in judgment.
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OSU Law Rugby....specializing in personal injury and pain & suffering.
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2003/07/17, 02:55 PM
"I'm surprised you haven't been called to appear on CNN's Crossfire with that astute analysis." LOL, mzakal...
Wow, arch. With an incredible thesis like that, combined and supported by such clear-cut premises, how did you miss being elected to the Senate?........ LMAO!
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Michael
"Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!"
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2003/07/17, 08:45 PM
Good one Rev.....
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/07/18, 11:29 AM
the war that we are trying to help with isa holy war that has been going on so far back that it is in the bible.....two brothers that believe that the land belongs to them..i can go deeper but i really don't like to right long.......a holy war ,,,no one ever wins.......against the war...for ,saving lives.......we should be focused on north korea which have had there nuclear weapons aimed at us since before the 911.....it is pointing at california and no one has said anything about it...i think saddam and north korea had this planned out....have saddam distract us with 911 so north korea can make more nuclear weapons...as i write this the have 6 already made ....and we have troops in iraq? and we can't even find anything over there...
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2003/07/18, 11:30 AM
the war that we are trying to help with isa holy war that has been going on so far back that it is in the bible.....two brothers that believe that the land belongs to them..i can go deeper but i really don't like to right long.......a holy war ,,,no one ever wins.......against the war...for ,saving lives.......we should be focused on north korea which have had there nuclear weapons aimed at us since before the 911.....it is pointing at california and no one has said anything about it...i think saddam and north korea had this planned out....have saddam distract us with 911 so north korea can make more nuclear weapons...as i write this the have 6 already made ....and we have troops in iraq? and we can't even find anything over there...
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2003/07/19, 03:24 AM
This is a subject that is very near and dear to my heart, especially since I was deployed to Iraq in April. I am very much for being here. Saddam was a very violent man who killed his own people just for the pleasure of doing so. Since we have rid this poor country of that tyrant, we are now trying to introduce Democracy to these people. It is a very slow process, because the citizens of Iraq really do not understand what Democracy is. They only understand socialistic views, and the views of their former dictator. I have a feeling that it is going to take a long time for us to help the people to understand exactly what it is that we are trying to do. However, I think that all we need is a lot of patience and understanding and we will be able to assist the Iraqi citizens to start living normal lives, lives that do not include Saddam Hussein.
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2003/07/19, 05:46 PM
How can anyone be against this war? Saddam is (hopefully he is dead) a horrible human being. He killed thousands if not hundreds of thousands of his OWN people. I guess you guys missed the mass graves they showed on TV. Yet a large group of people mainly from Canada and France continue to disagree w/ our decision to free the people. I think all the French people have forgotten how many times the U.S. has bailed them out when they were in trouble. I think they need to sac up and stand up for themselves 1 time!
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2003/07/20, 11:49 AM
I've kept quiet on this subject for a while. I'm over in Scotland and there's been a lot of debate for either side. I'm was against the war. Yes, Saddam's a dictator, yes he has some pretty nasty weapons and yes he's used them on his own people. He's a torturer, barbaric and his crimes against his own people are horrendous.
I just think the reasons given by people (ie Bush and Blair) could be seen as being a bit hollow.
Yes he needed to be ousted - but why now.
I believe it's a direct result of September 11th. The troops haven't been able to get Osama Bin Laden so they needed a scalp. Iraq was the scalp.
Saddam's been this bad for years, since Bush Snr tried to get him all those years ago. And they had their chance but they didn't take it. Saddam gave the PR people and spin doctors the result they needed.
However, I think the result could have been different.
If they'd taken Saddam out as a result of his war crimes and crimes against humanity and his own people I don't think you would have had anywhere near as many people against it.
Saddam was a scalp Bush needed because they haven't found Osama Bin Laden. But I think it's backfiring on all persons concerned. The dubiety over teh information on their capabilities etc - it's looking like it could be a whole lot of egg on many a face.
Over here Blair is taking a lot of flack for various things, it's coming to a critical point and he may not get re-elected due to a lot of what has went on.
I just feel that there's been a lot of "sexing" up of information for Bush and Blair's own purposes and it's gonna come back and bite them.
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2003/07/20, 01:10 PM
That could possibly be. I think that President Bush is starting to take a lot of heat in the U.S. However, he is my leader, and I will back him 100%. I do feel that we are here for the right reasons. I do think that the reasons have changed since coming here. Our mission, now, is to help the people get back on their feet. I believe that we are here for the right reasons, especially when I see children on the sides of every road, begging for food and water. My heart goes out to them. I don't feel that I am here to fight, anymore. I am here to change the lives of the people here. I feel that I am really making a contirbution, no matter how small. We have brought some money into the economy, and very slowly started to make a difference, at least where I am located. I don't really know what is going on in the rest of the country. Here, I feel that we are doing a good thing, and am willing to stay as long as we need to. I'm not worried about the politics of the whole situation. I don't really care why we are here, I just know that now we are here, and we are starting to make a positive change in these people's lives. It may take them some time, before realizing it, but they will.
Ed
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2003/07/20, 03:03 PM
FOR
Man some of yall make me sick.......people in the army train their frigin butts off and sacrifice so we can have our own freedom, and so we can do whatever we want. And it's not only for our freedom it's for justice, Saddam is an evil dictator and needs to be put away for good. People in America get so spoiled that they lose their guts over time. Just open your eyes and hearts a little and think of someone other than yourselves, ppl in Iraq are suffering, and in our pledge it says for liberty and justice for all. FOR ALL not just us....... and we are also a nation under God, so I think we need to act like one a little bit....this isn't pointed towards all the replies, just the ones against the war because they don't want to worry about Iraq and they hate ppl getting killed.........the vietnam war had TONS more casualties than this one.
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If Satan ever tries to remind you of your past, just tell him of his future!
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2003/07/20, 04:42 PM
t-babe i think you hit it right o the nose.....
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2003/07/21, 01:12 AM
I feel that everyone has the right to voice their own opinion on this subject. It is healthy for everyone to voice their own opinions, even if they are not the opinion that everyone wants to hear. I, personally, am glad that I had the chance to come here, to Iraq, and bring freedom to these people. I know that not everyone agrees with my point of view, and that's alright. I'm glad that not everyone agrees, because if they did, then this world would be a pretty boring place.
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You can do anything that you set your mind to, man- Eminem
Ed
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2003/07/21, 09:32 AM
thank you hagere for standing up for something you believe in...but at the same time why do you think after united states went to iraq many of the people still hate americans and more are dieing now then before.?this is why,when suddam started killing his people No One not even the united states did anything about it and for those poeple the hope was lost...the hope that no one would help them....and for years way (way before bush sr.)it continued to go on........only when the oil was at threat where suddam was bombing the countries oil then we jumped in...........after we got it the way we wanted to things went on......the once that went against him in the first war were killed, their arms ripped of from the joints,,one hand tied to a bumpers car and the other one to a tree...did you see that (i did)so people did not go against him again and this went on for years ...and then we got attacked and then it became our buiness......most of the people fear that we are going to do want we did the last time step in and step out ............how sure are you that it will not...........
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2003/07/21, 10:18 AM
I am very sure that it will not happen that way again, because we are still here. I know that we are now here to help these people. I agree that the way this entire war was handled, was not the best way to do business. My view on it is this, I may not agree with why we came here. However, we are here, and making the best of it. Also, another reason that Iraqis are attacking us is that the Iranians and Syrians are convincing them to. There are more reasons behind them than they are mad at us for not getting rid of Saddam sooner. The Iranians and Syrians are convincing the Iraquis to attack Americans because they want to run Americans out, and gain control of the country, and the oil. We are building bases here, to ensure that our presence is going to be here for years to come. The base that I am currently living on is going to be used for coalition forces. We are building bases up north, and in Southern Iraq. I don't think that we are going to build these bases, and then just say, "ok, we are finished, we don't need them anymore." The last time, we didn't bother to build permanent bases in Iraq. We really had no intention of being here for very long. The last war, we weren't here to conquer Iraq. We were here to get them out of Kuwait, that's all. We are now an occupying force, which means that we are here to stay for a long time, and to also help the citizens help themselves. We are starting to use Iraqi citizens to work for us, so that they can start to make a living for themselves.
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You can do anything that you set your mind to, man- Eminem
Ed
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2004/07/23, 08:15 AM
Though I support Michael Moore's work, I can admit that he takes it a little far at times and misrepresents things to get across his point. That said, I think it's good to see the reactions he elicits. A lot of contradictions surface when "small government, no regulation" conservatives are petitioning theaters to keep his movie away from the public eye. Do we not have the right to choose what we watch? Doesn't the free market support making money from such films? I think it shows that a very powerful and influential segment of the conservative population still waves the flag for small government and less regulation but hopes to regulate the hell out of morality and free speech.
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OSU Law Rugby....specializing in personal injury and pain & suffering.
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2004/07/23, 07:12 AM
No offense to anyone but I really think Moore is nothng better than a tabloid writer. He takes subjects that will inflame people and reaps the benefits. Di I aggree with Bush totaly? No not totaly. Do I see and understand Moores side? Yes I just think he is fuel in a society that flames up over the littlest thing. I have not liked Moore for years, and it is just my opinion. thanks
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LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2004/07/23, 06:32 AM
Bump. I watched Michael Moore's documentary Farenheit 9.11 yesterday. Noticed that it's been a full year since the last post in this thread. I thought maybe people might want to re-read.
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2004/07/23, 06:42 AM
What did you think of the film? Hoping to see it soon. Saw "Bowling for Columbine" and it really made me think.
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2004/07/23, 12:13 PM
I won't comment but to say what worries me about the war is the draft - there are some people that do not want to be drafted for they fear with great fear having to kill someone or be killed and personally, I don't believe I would want to be next to that person when relying on them to support me and my troops, they could end up getting me killed with their fear and that should be taken more seriously when drafting rather than putting kids out there that end up dead because they could not deal with it.
My 18 yo son wants to go to the Guards and has taken his physical and he is not afraid and wants to serve his country, but for my older son if drafted, it would be a disaster as he would sooner shoot himself than kill anyone, you can talk freedom and all that, but he could not ever bring harm to another individual no matter what the purpose.
It kills me to know that so many die because they cannot possibly cope with the situation - and, yes, I know that in war everyone suffers, even those that chose to be there...but why put someone there who's only choice may be to shoot themselves or know they may risk their whole troop's welfare?
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Veda
MISERY IS OPTIONAL
***When you are up to your ears in trouble, try using the part that is not submerged.
***The difference between a dream and a goal is a plan.
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
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2004/07/25, 09:14 AM
I've read this post for about three times and tried so hard not to write anything. But for the life of me I can't help it.
I'm not american, my dad works in a naval base in the middle of the british indian ocean, so there is influence when you do get down to it. But I was educated in a university that practically hates America and their power.
Make no mistake, I don't hate americans, I dislike some of the policies that america makes in regards to my country, but this cannot be helped since whether I like it or not...the US does hold tremendous political and socio-economical power.
I've seen farenheit 9/11. I've seen the pictures of american soldiers mistreating iraqi prisoners, I've seen the tapes of Iraqi extremists beheading an american, a korean and a filipino. Although it saddens my heart that people can be so vile to each other, it is their choice, I've always said that it's easier to get rid of the worst evil and weed out the rest.
It's lucky you guys have president who thinks like machiavelli and is ultimately a utilitarian. But alas, the media preys on that like it's their primary food source.
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The best victories are won not by adversity and brute force. Learn the enemy and overcome it. Now for the love of god...put the donut...DOWN!!!
-cupcake-
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2004/07/25, 07:31 PM
As glad as I am to see Saddam out, I must say I'm completely against this military action. I feel that Americans are being brainwashed into believing that we must be there and we are not seeing the truth. I will be the first to admit that I have lived in fear since 9/11...I lost an old friend in the North Tower, I saw the smoke across the East River and I feared for my own life. That day had a traumatic effect on this city(and the nation). Emotions ran through me like a freight train; anger, fear, sadness/grief, confusion/disbelief. I looked to president Bush for protection and I felt it immediately, but as the truth began to come out over the months and years, my confidence in him has wasted away to nothing and I feel that he has exploited 9/11 as a promotional tool for his re-election. There have too many blunders from this administration that have been admitted by Rumsfeld, Powell, Rice, cheney and so on. The 9/11 Commission Report speaks for itself. Bush used the "WMD" excuse and 9/11 to go into Iraq and take there oil. Bin Laden is not in Iraq, there is NO evidence Saddam harbored terrorists or had WMD.
READ THAT COMMISSION REPORT. I know voting Republican can benefit many of you in this country and I know Republican Senators who mean well and do well. This isn't about voting Democrat or Republican, its about geting this administration out so we can rebuild our pride and gain the support we NEED from other nations. Please take the time to see Micheal Moore's movie if you havent already...its a little too propagandized, but it speaks loud and clear. I love my country, but its time for a change.
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2004/07/25, 09:05 PM
I love my country, but its time for a change.
There was a survey reported earlier that people wanted to see a change take place because of what has taken place during Bush's office, but that people were uncertain if Kerry would be the right choice to do that.
I guess we'll have to wait and see in November.
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2004/07/26, 11:46 AM
Well that was a lot of reading but well worth it.
I purchased the commission report a few days ago and will be reading it this weekend.. thank you for the preview jdelts, as well as for clearly stating what so many find so difficult to acknowledge.
P.S. someone stated above "pre-emption is aggression" or the like. I have held that as my reason for being 'against'. Iraq is not Al Qaeda, which is the question my daughter asked me when we went to war.
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: ] ~Danielle
The deepest rivers flow with the least sound.
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2004/07/26, 02:52 PM
Interesting read since it started a year ago. M.Moore is a free man and can say whatever he wants. I wonder if he'd do his "documentaries" for free. It seems he capitalizes on other peoples misery to me inasmuch as his two main claims to fame are "Bowling"and "9/11".
The U.S. creates a lot of its own problems. The first terrorism I personally remember is airline hijackings of the 60's. The biggest terror incident of my youth was the kidnapping and murder of the Israle Olympic team in 1972.
In my tour in the navy in "72,3 and 4 we did a Med cruise and terrorism was more frightening than being in the South China Sea in Viet Nam for me.
The US backed the Shah of Iran in the 70's. He ran an oppressive dictatorship using our weapons and backing. Late 70's he was overthrown and the new guys held our embassy and stafffor 444 days. They must have hated us to make this unprecidented move huh?
We jumped over and backed Iraq and had a hand in the creation of Sadam. You know what became of that.
During the early 80's the former USSR fought the Mujahadein in Afghanistan. We backed the Mujahadein. Osama was a Mujahadien freedom fighter against the Soviets. The Taliban came to power after the war with the USSR.
In most cases US helped create the ones who eventually hated us. I hope this doesn't make people angry for me to say it but its the truth.
I'm a veteran. I support our troops. 57,000 of my generation died in Viet Nam. Many more Vietnamese died. When my ship returned from deployments there were no bands or welcome homes. If we went out the main gate we were heckled and spit on. We were told to slip quietly out the back gate. I have come to believe that our involvement there was wrong.
The US spends alot of money securing it's interests. Maybe we could better spend it trying to get along. I hate what a group of terrorists did to our country. We should be tracking them to the ends of the earth and stopping them by any means necessary.
He can say and do as he pleases. Michael Moore is an
entertainer. I think he does a diservice to people serving and giving their lives for what they believe in.
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Waterskis with buffalos
Charlie
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2004/07/26, 03:21 PM
Well spoken Chuck.
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2004/07/26, 05:01 PM
War should be the last choice. But we need to look at what has been happening for many years. We have tried talking and sanctions and they did not work. Pulling out of the region will not work.
While the attacks and killings were happening overseas, we were able to slap at the ones who did it. But now we are in danger at home. And we must choose whether to fight here in our country with our dead families lying around or in their countries. But fight we must, because the terrorists are not going to stop until all who believe in freedom are gone. This is not a fight for oil or big buisness, but a fight for a way of life that allows you to choose. Some say that we should not make this a religous war, But if you look at the other side you will see that they already have. Peace and security are great but if you want freedom then you must be willing to fight for it. Freedom is not free
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2004/07/28, 10:24 PM
I dont think anyone is for war but we have to do what we have to do. If we had all the facts many of us might just have a better understanding of the why's... Peace
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2004/07/29, 11:37 PM
I support our troops and I hope they all come home safe.
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