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2006/09/29, 03:05 PM
hey fellas,
Ive been getting great results out of westside for lowerbody (size and strength) but have yet to find it beneficial for upper body.
My bench, however, will not budge and when it does (rarely) i go up maybe 20lbs and then platau again for the longest time. I am failing 2 inches off chest so i have been using boards and all that trying to get power there but i just dont have it. right now i think i am going to try to do some wide grip work for a few weeks and/or dumbell but i think i am looking for a new upperbody program to use so i can get my bench moving like my squat and dl (which go up like 10-15 each week).
at a bodyweight of 240 or so, my bench is around the same and i feel like i need more chest emphasis. got any ideas? maybe instead of tricep dominant work after ME/RE exercise do some chest dominant? and what would you recommend?
-nate diggity
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2006/09/29, 03:46 PM
Try doing some speed work off the boards...Add soem chains to the board presses.
For "speed/ dynamic" day....I did somthing a lil different this time around....Iused weight that was 60-80% on the board plus the bands...so whiel I wasn't doing the reps fast....I was having to pick up speed for the lockout. Also trying to lock out with speed. Might work might not?
I also paired this with floore presses....do more of these than actual tri work.
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/09/29, 07:04 PM
A lot of less experianced lifters substitute more repetition effort work for upper body.
I don't do any dynamic effort upper body work, instead I just add in max effort pulling.
Just a couple suggestions.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/09/29, 07:58 PM
well i am using an RE day and an ME day with a DE day replacing rep every 3 weeks or so. I dont do to much speed work, maybe some speed work off like a 2 board would be good? like andrew said?
what do you mean max effort pulling? dont you do that on lower i thought? or do you mean like rows and such? also, i was under the impression that you were not so focused on bench, more on other stuff whereas right now for me, my bench is what is holding back
i havent done too many floor presses because i know that my weak area is majorily caused by a weak chest, my triceps take over easily once it is in the range above that. i am just trying to figure out the best way to get strength right off the chest... maybe i should incorporate more speed work then?
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2006/09/29, 08:15 PM
rows and pull ups.
I'm also following my own total body template.
I will be prioritizing my press sometime soon, planning on hitting 275 for a safe single in competition in december.
Something that really brought up the lower portion of my bench, even with a competition style pause, is doing db press as a max effort movement.
Not sure as to the point of speed work off of a 2 board? The board presses serve as a lockout movement, whereas speed work is to help build explosion of the chest to get past a higher sticking point (specifically when pressing in a shirt).
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/09/30, 03:40 PM
thats why i was debating the speed work, expecially with boards. but at the same time wouldnt it make sense that if you were more explosive off the chest that would carry over to being more powerful there too? i have been contemplating the db maxs tho. i will probably try that.
what do you think of doing the wg bench tho too? my thought of trying a new upperbody program was that i dont really get much chest work done (normally follow up with dips or something). i guess since its supposed to be supplemental i should do more chest as that is my weakness.
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2006/09/30, 11:40 PM
The solution maybe as simple as widening out your grip...if yout pinkies are within outer rings then every couple weeks try to slowly move your hands out 1 finger length at a time until your thumbs are outside the power rings or maybe even slightly wider....
Heavy Dips leaning forward.....
Lighter weight for speed with wide grip...DE style
RE at the end of ME sets 1-3 sets.....to failure ....I like 15-30 reps...
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2006/09/30, 11:41 PM
1 finger width*
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2006/10/01, 08:16 PM
Yeah I agree....I widened my grip...had to bring out the wrist wraps....but it did help my bench alot...which I switched back to my normal.
I liked the boards on speed day with the bands...I'd warm up though with "normal" speed work 3-4 sets....then straight to 70-90% plus the bands.
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Get your bicep curling, cut off shirt, matching workout outfit wearing,flexing in mirror "toned" wanna-be ass , out of my squat rack!
People don't reach thier true potental, only those who seek it.
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2006/10/27, 12:28 PM
wrestler, you did me for db presses? For a 1rm max? Also, coolnatedawg, try doing reps to failure with a given weigth after you me lift. For example, Flat bench press with 185,225,275lbs to failure. And for db pressing do the same. Just pick a excercise and weight and go to failure on that day for 2 sets. Rotate exercises out every week.
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2006/10/27, 05:25 PM
Usually a 3rm, but yes. I considered them a max effort movement.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/10/28, 05:48 PM
my gym's db's dont go over 100lbs so its hard for me to get a 3rm on db presses. I have been taping weight to the dumbbells and has been working out well so far.. I am gonna give these a try for a 3rm on thursday.
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2006/10/28, 10:57 PM
go to home depot and pick up some surgical tubing. Cut a length 19 inches and use this to tie weight to the dumbbells. Works beautifully.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/10/29, 08:29 PM
just got some news that our gym will be getting 110lb dbs. Thanks for the idea. I'll try that. I taped a 10lb and 5lb to each side of the 100's. Got 3 reps. Pretty disappointed considering I do 120's for 9. That was after some heavy close grips too. You have any other tips for bench? I get stuck on the 6th rep of close grip with 295 about half way up. Been there for a few weeks. Let me know.
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2006/10/29, 11:31 PM
Well if you've been there for a few weeks, why are you still doing the same thing and expecting a different result.
Try doing something different for triceps. I am a big fan of board pressing for triceps, and for getting used to heavy weight in your hands.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/10/29, 11:41 PM
HEAVY A$$ DIPS
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
if you got power rack....put pins at your sticking point....load up ~150% 1rm....and do few sets of pushing against the weight for 10 seconds as hard as you can....the weight should not move......
I also love /\ pushdowns on pulldown station....
DE work maybe worth a shot too...
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2006/10/30, 07:34 AM
your both right. Why am I still doing them? I don't know. I gotta change things up a bit I guess. I am gonna start doing dips again. Gonna take a little break this weak from ME exercises. Just for recovery purposes and do some db work. I also love board pressing and have been wanting to do them again for a while but have no spotters. The gym I go to no one can handle the weight I do or they are scared to spot or touch the bar too quickly.
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2006/10/30, 11:12 AM
what about isometric bench, isnt that essentially the same as supramaximal pin press? cuz you are just pushing the bar against the pins... with no hope of moving it.
they say that insanity is when you do the same thing over and over but expect different results...
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2006/10/30, 04:04 PM
they being me. Ok, so I stole it from einstein, but you get the idea...
If you have a power rack, then try your board presses in the power rack. Set the pins so that if you fail, you can just deflate your chest, and dump it on the pins.
alternatively, find a stronger gym.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/10/30, 08:01 PM
who you talking to with the power rack/stronger gym comment? im confusored
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2006/10/30, 08:09 PM
snoopy. Although its a good idea for anyone without a spot.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/10/31, 08:41 AM
very true... but you still confused me. luckily i am startin to work in with the strength coach here at school so i dont have to find a spotter, plus he hangs out with Tate and Louie so he knows all their stuff... maybe give some motivation to me.
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2006/10/31, 03:32 PM
I know I haven't been on here a while...and my bench press isn't that great, but my advice would be...holy crap..could I really be saying this? -- Maybe the Westside Style is not the best thing for you (right now)-- There...phew, wasn't so bad. I also have struggled to get my upper body lifts, hypertrophy, and other goals where I want them with this system.
I have had to take time off because of my new job and the stress it places on my body (UPS- very physical). However, I have kept doing my homework. Like Steve said, less experienced lifters usually do more repetition work. I think this is ideal, but one system that time and time again seems to really work for beginners is Undulating Periodization. In high school, my football team used it in the form of BFS, and everybody, myself included, made great gains. In fact, I've never heard of anyone who hasn't made good gains on this system. Not that I'm a know-all strength guru by any means, but I suggest maybe switching to a different style for a while and see what happens.
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/10/31, 03:45 PM
thats along the lines of what i was looking for originally. however, i am working in with my universities strength coach so i am hoping that would help with my motivation and maybe push me some more. my other thoughts were to perhaps try a 5x5 to see if i could make some gains there, but im going to try this out first. if it doesnt work i definetly will find something else as i feel my upper body is platauing and my lower isnt
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2006/10/31, 08:29 PM
Like aaron said, I usually recommend to most lifters to do more upper body repetition work in place of dynamic work if they aren't making good gains by conjugating.
However, when I meet these same lifters, they are usually doing their upper body speed work wrong in some way.
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Iron and chalk.
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2006/10/31, 08:53 PM
Natedawg, what you just said reminds me a lot of a Kelley Bagget article I read. You say that you're not plateauing with your lower body, but your upper body gains, or lack thereof, are frustrating you. Kelley talks about how a lot of people absolutely annihilate their upper bodies because it's "easy." He then compares it to the squat or other lower body lifts. You don't see most people forcing out negatives or moving up into weights they might not be able to do with squats. Somethin to think about...I suggest you look at it. It's a bench press article on Higher-Faster-Sports.com
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I firmly believe that any man's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment of all that he holds dear, is the moment when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-victorious.
--Vince Lombardi
"Decide what you want, decide what you are willing to exchange for it. Establish your priorities and go to work." H. L. Hunt
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2006/10/31, 11:23 PM
wrestler, i typically do a rep day instead of speed day, but every once in a while i do some speed just to make sure i am not slowing down. im sure i could potentially be doing stuff wrong but i wouldnt really know if i was. thats why im hoping i can get the ball moving again (so to speak) with a new work out partner who knows what they are doing.
arondaballer, i actually think that i annihalate my lower way more than i should and my upper i slack on because it is my least favorite thing to do. for instance, on lower body days, i spend a long time doing squats or deadlifts b/c i like them and they are something i want to do- which in turn means i tend to overtrain them easier. with upper body tho, there is no motivation b/c when i do think that i can finally move some more weight, i find that i am still stuck. again, this is why i hope to get help from the strength coach. i havent read the article you posted yet, but i will after this...
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2006/10/31, 11:42 PM
ok, i read the article. i like the idea and it is possible that i am doing to much work. im not really sure as it feels like its ok
ME bench work
CGP or Dips
Row or Pullup
Shoulder Raises
Bicep stuff
that is an example of what i do. however, i will try out what my friend Hamer has in store for me and if i dont get some gains in a few weeks, then i will look into trying something along the lines of Kelley's outline.
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2006/11/01, 07:36 AM
Coolnatedawg what do you do for Overhead Pressing?
A lot of the time it's other imbalances that are holding your bench back....whether weak back muscles....or shoulders....or rotator cuffs...etc..
Over the years I have had good success doing few sets of low rep ME work followed by high rep RE of 1-4 sets for bench....so from personal experience I have to agree that RE seems to work good for bench.....I think DE is better for more experienced powerlifters who are already putting up high numbers...
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2006/11/01, 11:05 AM
thats what i figured, and after you told me about doing a set or 2 of RE after ME, i have tried to incorporate that.
As for overhead pressing, that is something i struggle with as well, my best bb press is i believe 155. Either ME or RE day i do some sort of overhead press (db, bb, push press).
today with Tod Hamer (hamerstrength.com) i did this (i think, didnt write down)
BP 5x5 185
BP 4board 5rx2 245
100 reps bar (not sure why we did, i think someone challenged him)
Chest supported tbar 8x5 90
Pillars of Strength (cable holds 200lbs each for time)
Lat Raise hold for time (15lb db)
Plate Pinch Preacher curl (2 35s pinched)
Ab shit
i know it seems like a lot of weird work, but it was something different and definitly kicked my ass. im a little worried for squat day cuz i thought i was gonna lose it today, so i am going to get up ass early to make sure i have time to digest my meal.
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2006/11/01, 09:57 PM
go heavier on Tbar...that's a low number imo....perhaps try a different exercise where you can jack up more weight...dynamic row? bent over row?
I would prioritize push press over bench...or another exercise to try is Bent Press it's a great exercise to break through OHP plateaus....you can do it with both DB and Barbell....and you can use a lot of weight....
not sure the point of 'pillars of strength'....i think there're better exercises that test support grip...
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2006/11/02, 03:50 PM
haha, thats not my normal tbar kind of numbers, i think we were just keeping intensity low on them for some reason.
the pillars was kind of just for fun... keep each workout exciting and try stuff new. i had never done them so i thought it was fun (except my reach is so large that i had trouble gettin the weights to actually rise).
in regards to OHP, i will be incorporating them and focusing on them alot more, but for right now i am just following along with what Hamer is doin to try new things and keep my intensity up. and i havent tried Bent Press, i will have a go at that soon...
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