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2005/07/29, 08:51 PM
what do y`all think of chains and bands?Who uses them?
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2005/07/29, 09:59 PM
they are very effective methods for building strength and power....however they are aimed at serious/experienced athletes and lifters.....beginners probably should not do it....they are very hard on the body....
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2005/07/29, 11:11 PM
bands-VERY hard on the body, and very taxing. Only use them for short periods of time.
Chains are a better place to start, but if you are a beginner, then I would say wait. Chains are used alot as a form of accomidating resistance to build top end strength. If you are starting lifting, I see no need why you would need to work on top end strength already, although to each his own. I know there are those that would disagree, but thats my $.02
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The best feeling in the world is the feeling you get after a tough set of squats after you step back from the power rack and throw up all over the floor.
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2005/07/30, 02:02 AM
i`m using them during a twelve week periodazation program.but in reality aren`t you just using variable resistance on free weight excercises
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2005/07/30, 11:55 PM
??? Variable resistance and accomidating resistance are 2 different things. If you are compairing adding weight to adding bands, then you are dead wrong. Rephrase your question.
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The best feeling in the world is the feeling you get after a tough set of squats after you step back from the power rack and throw up all over the floor.
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2005/07/31, 03:24 AM
Bands should be at most 3 times during a 12 week cycle. As wrestler has mentioned they are very hard on your body. Chains are good. Again, don't over do the chains and bands. I use bands with beginners if they don't understand how to come up hard off of the box. If you don't accelerate then they will pull you down. Once a beginner learns this then I take them off until they are more experienced.
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2005/07/31, 04:58 PM
Dude here are the definition of both and yes you are adding resistance which is what you do with weather you add,weight or bands,chains ect.so you might ought to rethink your statement.
Accommodating Resistance
Increasing resistance as lifters force increases through range of motion. Nautilus machines are said to provide accommodating resistance
Variable Resistance
Strength training equipment where the machine varies amount of weight being lifted to match strength curve for a particular exercise – usually with a cam, lever arm or hydraulic cylinder. Also referred to as “ACCOMMODATING RESISTANCE.”
so it looks like you need to do a little more research.So it looks like you are creating variable resistance with a barbell an excellent concept you get the best of both worlds,so bodybuilders would benifit from this type of training as well as powerlifters.
i am 8 weeks through a periodazation program using chains on my bench and i am still going strong.where do you think my strength levels will be when i drop the chains and just bench. my rep range thru this cycle have been 8-3.when i finish this cycle than i will have a max effort day to see where i need to start my new cycle.
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http://p200.ezboard.com/bbigbearsweighttraining
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2005/07/31, 06:36 PM
<pulls out chair, sets table next to him with plate loaded with chicken breast salsa and salad...> this ought to be good.
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Less Talk, More Chalk!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/07/31, 11:14 PM
lmao. Ok mutt, you're getting what you wanted.
Its not "just" adding resistance. The resistance at the bottom of the lift is different than the resistance at the top of the lift, which makes it totally different. If you try squatting for 6 weeks with HEAVY band tension and then try running, I will watch you and laugh as you stumble. If you lift for 6 weeks with heavy weight, you will still be in great shape. Bands and chains beat the hell out of your body, more so than weight because you are lifting near your max THROUGHOUT the range of motion, rather than the max you can get off our chest or out of the hole. This is far more severe. It will get your body used to heavy weight at the top, while still working the lower portion of the lift. The only other way to do this is to seperate, and do different lifts for each portion of the lift, like board press and then bench press with a cambered bar.
Accomidating resistance and variable resistance are two different things when the bar is loaded up.
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2005/07/31, 11:54 PM
no kidding you are making the movements more efficent thru adding bands and chains.you ever done high reps with chains and bands it adds a differant diminsion to training.
Bands and chains beat the hell out of your body, more so than weight because you are lifting near your max THROUGHOUT the range of motion, rather than the max you can get off our chest or out of the hole. This is far more severe. It will get your body used to heavy weight at the top, while still working the lower portion of the lift.so if chains and bands do this why do you need all these other excercises.when i use chains and bands i feel it more in the middle of the lift I also pause all my reps at the bottom.
Accomidating resistance and variable resistance are two different things when the bar is loaded up.no they are still the same thing.I didn`t make up those definitions they came from another site.so your sets are more intense when you use chains and bands so you need to do less to recover from the stress you are putting on your body.
you know nautaluas tried to accomplish this with a cam.They were also the first ones to suggest using chains to create variable resistance with a barbell.
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2005/08/01, 11:25 PM
We are not talking machines and weights here, we are talking weights and chains. I refer to adding plates as changing the resistance, ie variable resistance, since the weights are changeable. Your giving me the def of some nautilus site that wants to talk about machines. If you are using variable resistance and accomidating resistance to refer as interchangeable, then your question still makes no sense.
50 lbs in weights is not the same as 50 lbs in chains, and neither is the same as 50 lbs in band resistance. 50 lbs on a nautilus is a waste of a workout. And I know the whole nautilus history. nautilus screwed their own name up when they started backing metzner (sp?).
You say that chains and bands add a diferent dimension to training, and then say they are the same exact thing. ???
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2005/08/01, 11:45 PM
you can not achieve variable resistance or accomadating resistance with a barbell-------so to create it you have to add chains or bands to accomplish this.
to but it simple if you put 50lbs on a barbell you lift 50lbs thru the range of motion
now you put 50lbs on the bar and 50lbs of chain on the bar
you are lifting 50lbs at the bottom where you are weaker and a 100lbs at the lockout where you are stronger in effect creating variable resistance with a barbell
also those definitions did not come off a nautaluas site all i said was nautaluas tried to do this with a cam instead of trying to accomplish with chains and bands.you ever read the original bulletins by a.jones about his training style.they made a lot of sense.Like i said before you knock something you need to do your research.Also early mentzer was a good training style if you could keep up the intensity.
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2005/08/02, 10:32 AM
OK, OK. We are talking two different def. for variable resistance. I was thinking that by variable resistance you meant adding weight to the bar. I know understand that you and I are talking about the same thing, in which case, I wholeheartedly agree, except that I don't see machines and freeweights in the same light.
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2005/08/02, 10:45 AM
Also, I have done more than my share of research. I know all about the nautilus revolution, and think that it was propelled by a great idea, however, I still think that bands and chains are superior to a cam for no reason other than the added training effects that free weights have.
If you are talking early mentzer as in pre-HIT, then yes, he had some good ideas, but no better than other bodybuilders. As for intensity, it is the %1RM that you are lifting, and something that mike mentzer was severly lacking in, as most hypertrophy goaled bodybuilders are.
Arthur Jones had some great ideas, yes, but thats what they were, ideas. He tried to put them into effect, and yes, a nautilus bench press is probably a better training alternative to a smith bench press, but like I said before, they were machines, and could only be so effective. I think Jones' main problem was that he targeted the masses of people looking for a simple workout. Yes it was effective, but it would have been more effective for higher level lifters, especially those hitting plateaus, as a way to see gains. his #1 mistake, was his decision to back mentzer and his HIT system, in an effort to increase the amount of customers accomidated in and out by decreasing the total amount of time for each workout. One set only takes a short period of time, and so if everyone is doing 1 set per exercise, then that makes for a really short workout.
Arthur Jones was a visionary, and it was from his logs about cams and resistance, as well as documented research on chains and lifting, that produced the idea of using bands. It was at a fitness expo, and probably some cardio seminar, that Louie Simmons first bought a set of bands, and took them into the relms of Westside Barbell Club. It was simple, yet effective, and caught on quickly. Soon elite fitness systems was selling bands, as well as systems based on bands, to the general public, and from there, history was made.
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The best feeling in the world is the feeling you get after a tough set of squats after you step back from the power rack and throw up all over the floor.
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2005/08/02, 01:56 PM
you know we have argued around the same point for 4 or 5days to reach the same point.
and i agree Louie is a great tinker even if you don`t accept the westside as a religion it has influenced all of our training.For the better.Now in the old days with mentzer it was going to failure while trying to add weight.
you ever hear of Dr.Ken Liester it still incorporates these concepts in his training at iron island gym in NY most of his workouts are free weight only just incorporating nautaluas principles.He has turned out some extremely strong lifters.
later dude this was fun but we need to argue about something else LOL
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2005/08/02, 02:54 PM
just a difference in wording was all. I've heard of Ken Liester, he writes for MILO, right??? Don't know anything about him other than that he squats alot.
I wouldn't say I follow westside as a religion, but it has def influenced my training. I now follow a modified template, with more ME pulling as opposed to bench, to achieve my goals as a wrestler and combat athlete.
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