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2003/08/25, 12:07 AM
1) Which supplements
Right now I'm taking the supplements and have had good results: whey protien, creatine (w/carbs), & glutamine. I'm going to order from AST next and am thinking about adding a little, but I don't want to overdo it. My goal is to put on muscle mass and weight (I don't need to lose weight). Here's what I'm thinking: whey (vp2), creatine, creatine hsc, glutamine, dymeatdrine xtreme, cla1000.
Question: too much or just right?
2) When
I've read a lot of Paul Cribbs stuff. I read his article on bracketing and Anabolic Nutrient Timing Factor. They seem to contradict a little. The bracketing method seems to say whey+creatine pre and post workout. The ANTF says take 2 post workout.
Question: So should I do bracketing, ANTF, or 1 pre and 2 post (combined)?
3) Off-Days
Question: What should I take for supplements on off-days? How much and when?
I know this was a little long. Thank you very much for any advice you can provide!
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2003/08/25, 02:23 AM
One other supplement I forgot to mention on #1 that I'm considering - flax seed oil (to compliment cla1000).
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2003/08/25, 10:29 AM
1. I would not get the micronized creatine and HSC both, not needed. Especially if you are already creatine loaded. And you will get by much cheaper with a whey/dextrose mixture for your insulin spike post workout. Their VP2 is an excellent protein source, better to go to www.vitaglo.com. But for just post workout, just as well to use Optimum Whey for 20 bucks. The CLA you do not need if you are trying to gain, this is best utilized on a cutting diet, as well as glutamine. And stay away from DE, ephedra based, and this is not necessary. (may even be harmful as might well know)
2. Spiking insulin post workout is best. Have a solid meal(complex carbs, protein, some fats).
3. On off days, do not spike your insulin. The only time this may be warranted is first thing in the morning when you are insulin sensitive. If you are going to do HSC for example, this would be a good time. Any way it goes, just take your creatine once, first thing in the morning is fine. Take your protein as needed to make your protein requirements.
As a side note, Paul Cribb is an excellent researcher, and can give much facts and figures and science, but in the end they are still selling a product.
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Quoting from althor74:
1) Which supplements
Right now I'm taking the supplements and have had good results: whey protien, creatine (w/carbs), & glutamine. I'm going to order from AST next and am thinking about adding a little, but I don't want to overdo it. My goal is to put on muscle mass and weight (I don't need to lose weight). Here's what I'm thinking: whey (vp2), creatine, creatine hsc, glutamine, dymeatdrine xtreme, cla1000.
Question: too much or just right?
2) When
I've read a lot of Paul Cribbs stuff. I read his article on bracketing and Anabolic Nutrient Timing Factor. They seem to contradict a little. The bracketing method seems to say whey+creatine pre and post workout. The ANTF says take 2 post workout.
Question: So should I do bracketing, ANTF, or 1 pre and 2 post (combined)?
3) Off-Days
Question: What should I take for supplements on off-days? How much and when?
I know this was a little long. Thank you very much for any advice you can provide!
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/25, 10:32 AM
#2 I forgot to add the pre workout after the solid meal.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/25, 04:05 PM
bb1, not to confuse althor, but I thought you had said in a previous post that CLA was a good idea during a gaining phase, to sort of keep fat from redepositing itself. Did I get that wrong? I thought that during a cutting phase it wouldn't be much help.
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~Victoria~
...There are no shortcuts to any place worth going.--Beverly Sills
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2003/08/26, 02:19 AM
Thank you bb1, I trust your advice. You cleared up #2 & #3, but I've got a few
followup Qs on #1.
a) Creatine: Are you suggesting I pass on HSC and just buy micronized creatine, then use
dextrose to get my insuline spike rather than the HSC?
b) Whey: I'm a little confused here. You say VP2 is good, but for post workout use Optimum
(which is what I'm using now). So if I use Optimum for post workout, when would I use VP2,
or are you suggesting to only use Optimum? I don't mind spending the money for higher quality protien but I'll save my money if you think Optimum's whey is just as good as VP2.
c) Fats: You say to pass on CLA because I'm trying to gain. I thought it would be useful becuase it contains one of two healthy fats and flax seed oil contains the other. Then I read a post of yours just now (here http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/Message.jsp?f_ix=2&t_ix=199) where you suggest flax seed oil contains all the essential fats your body needs. And I found another post where you say you use Udo's Choice for your healthy fats. So my question is, what should I use to supplement my healthy fats?
d) Energy: I appreciate the advice on the DE, I didn't realize it contaned ephedra. I searched the message boards and read some stuff about ephedra and think I'll definately avoid it. Why did you REALLY suggested it here?: http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/Message.jsp?f_ix=13&t_ix=837 - I like the idea of an energy/focus supplement for right before my workout. Is there a non-ephedra energy/focus supplement you'd recommend instead (perhaps AST's DGC, Hydroxycuts, etc)?
e) Glutamine: I've felt like I've had a faster recovery when taking this. However, you think I should get off it since I'm trying to gain? I thought it was mostly a muscle gain & recovery supplement, not a weight loss supplement.
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2003/08/26, 06:20 PM
Message deleted by moderator due to unsuitable content for this board.
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2003/08/26, 06:23 PM
My mistake on the CLA, you both are exactly right. I get so used to people wanting to lose...on a gain, it will be of benefit, as its claim to fame is the ability to "block" fats so to speak, so will help keep fat cells from becoming larger.
As far as fats, Flax or Udo's choice will work well. I like the Barleans brand as far as flax goes.
On Creatine, yes I am suggesting to pass on the price of HSC, and use dextrose/malto combo. You can buy dextose for 1.50 for a 2 lb. bag, and malto just a tad more. And to further this, mix your optimum whey, and creatine with this post workout for an anabolic cocktail.
VP2 is excellent protein, but the Optimum is is also very good and just fine for post workout.
I suggested DE back in the "old days", before all the bad stuff about ephedra came out. I used it myself, and had great success with it, great energy, but when I stopped had troubles with lack of energy, sleep issues while doing it, etc. Times do change, and sometimes we find that things we thought were great may not actually be. Not that it isn't a good product, but if you have any problems with ephedra....they may indeed have an ephedra free one now, not sure, but most of the feedback I get on the ephedra free of any kind is not real good.
Hope this clears things up a bit....
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Quoting from althor74:
Thank you bb1, I trust your advice. You cleared up #2 & #3, but I've got a few
followup Qs on #1.
a) Creatine: Are you suggesting I pass on HSC and just buy micronized creatine, then use
dextrose to get my insuline spike rather than the HSC?
b) Whey: I'm a little confused here. You say VP2 is good, but for post workout use Optimum
(which is what I'm using now). So if I use Optimum for post workout, when would I use VP2,
or are you suggesting to only use Optimum? I don't mind spending the money for higher quality protien but I'll save my money if you think Optimum's whey is just as good as VP2.
c) Fats: You say to pass on CLA because I'm trying to gain. I thought it would be useful becuase it contains one of two healthy fats and flax seed oil contains the other. Then I read a post of yours just now (here http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/Message.jsp?f_ix=2&t_ix=199) where you suggest flax seed oil contains all the essential fats your body needs. And I found another post where you say you use Udo's Choice for your healthy fats. So my question is, what should I use to supplement my healthy fats?
d) Energy: I appreciate the advice on the DE, I didn't realize it contaned ephedra. I searched the message boards and read some stuff about ephedra and think I'll definately avoid it. Why did you REALLY suggested it here?: http://www.freetrainers.com/FT/jsp/Message.jsp?f_ix=13&t_ix=837 - I like the idea of an energy/focus supplement for right before my workout. Is there a non-ephedra energy/focus supplement you'd recommend instead (perhaps AST's DGC, Hydroxycuts, etc)?
e) Glutamine: I've felt like I've had a faster recovery when taking this. However, you think I should get off it since I'm trying to gain? I thought it was mostly a muscle gain & recovery supplement, not a weight loss supplement.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/26, 06:35 PM
This is the most basic line from CLA research, and this is why it works so well for a gaining phase...
CLA interferes with a substance in your body called lipoprotein lipase that helps store fat in your body.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/08/27, 02:14 PM
Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't want to be giving the wrong advice.
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~Victoria~
...There are no shortcuts to any place worth going.--Beverly Sills
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2003/10/09, 12:15 PM
bb1fit, I have 2 followup questions.
1) I got some dextrose/malto to mix with my post workout shake. How much should I be using? I've currently been adding 4tsp each (approx 20g). That makes for dextrose (48cal, 12.8totalcarb, 12.8sugars) and malto (12.2cal, 3totalcarb, <1sugars) if my calculations are correct. Is that enough or should I be using more/less of either?
2) You say that I can use Optimum's Whey for post workout. I weigh 180 (6'2") and I'm aiming for about 270g of total protein since I'm trying to gain. What is a brand of protien you'd suggest for non-post workout? AST's VP2 or something from Beverly? If from Beverly, which one of their many choices?
Thanks!
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2003/10/09, 09:11 PM
Check out the thread right above in this same forum entitiled "whats everyones favorite protein shake". I spelled it out in there. Good luck toyou.
As far as daytime protein, really either ON or VP2 is great. They are both strictly pure whey sources, and digest very quickly. Make sure you never take either of these on an empty stomach. It will never make it out of the gut. A blend is your best bet. If you want to go the Beverly route, Ultra size is great. Great taste, and a great blend. Also has fats in it, so very steady slower digestion. Any route you choose, go for a good blend of proteins. Make sure it has casein, this is much slower absorbing.
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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2003/10/09, 09:13 PM
LOL...somehow the n before either isn't in there. My fingers are getting too fast I guess! LOL..it should read in the second paragraph "neither ON or VP2".
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Great people never want it easier, they just want to be better!
Ron
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