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2005/01/17, 02:57 AM
ok i was thinking of another wierd ass routine like i always do lol anyway i was thinking one along liens where you basically do
One day : You train your body for "Thickness"
Another : Dynamic / Speed type of exercises
Another : You train your body for Strength and power
Another : You train your body for "Width"
anyway ehres what exercises i was thinking i also was maybe wondering if i mite put speed/dynamic day with power and strength day.. anyway heres wat i ahd in mind u guys can read this n gemme suggestions or just through it out i dun care...
OK
Day - Thickness
Basically exercises such as
- Rows
- Bench press
- Dips
Day - Speed / power / strength
- Speed Bench
- Deadlifts
- Cleans
- Squats
Day - Width
- Lateral Raises
- Upright rows
- Chinups
- Pulldowns
anyway theres alot of work / thinkin still need this is a lil rough but what u guys think?
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2005/01/17, 11:22 AM
hey man, forget about it, just do a simple 3, 4 day mas program, and eat like a pig, thats all. bye
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2005/01/17, 11:31 AM
thing is , you don't need "width" and "thickness" to be strong, thats more concerened with bodybuilding.
cleans are a speed excercise...you suggest a 4 day split and put them on 3 days?
as a strength routine, I don't think its very good.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/01/18, 02:12 AM
andrew quote
"thing is , you don't need "width" and "thickness" to be strong, thats more concerened with bodybuilding. "
tim quote
"anyway heres wat i ahd in mind u guys can read this n gemme suggestions or just through it out i dun care... "
so basically if u wanna get "strong" chinups dips rows benching are shit?? ...
Andrew quote:
"you suggest a 4 day split and put them on 3 days? "
Timmstar quote:
"i also was maybe wondering if i mite put speed/dynamic day with power and strength day"
snipura i am trying to design this simple "3-4 day mass program" u suggest rite here in this topic...
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2005/01/18, 10:37 AM
look at west side barbell template......notice they have dynamic efforts on a different days than a max/ power day.....whatever you like to call it.
if your going for strength......back, shoulders,tris biceps, hams, are all secondary lifts......they help in the lift, by stablizing etc.
abbs lower back......are for core stablization for deadlifts and squats......and some on bench
with that being said, as far as I understand strength training....the most important lifts are bench deadlift squat cleans.........you do secondaries to help making those lifts better......nto for width not for mass.
and tim dont put words in my mouth, I never said you wont' get strong from benching chin ups or rows. I'd liek you to show me,where I said those will not get you strength.
I did say as a whole I don't think its a good STRENGTH routine. Because you shoudln't put or mix dynamic stuff with max lift excercises on the same day.
on the west side template you do dynamic lifts 36 hours before a max lift. SO if you wanna argue with that.....go right a head......but i'm on that program and it is awsome. And it works
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/01/20, 02:51 AM
Ok ill state what you asked and where you asked you said you wont get strong.. purley cause you asked and not for a argument then ill move on..
Andrew said:
" thing is , you don't need "width" and "thickness" to be strong, thats more concerened with bodybuilding. "
in my first post i had under width and thickness exercisers such as Benching, Rows and Chinups..
So theres where you said that.. anyway moving on cause i really dont care about that and im sure you dont either i thankyou for your reply and also.. may you lend me the routine your on and talking about ?? (west side) thanks in advance as always i apreciate your help and input:dumbbell:
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2005/01/20, 04:07 PM
no trimmstar stop being a smart ass............"width" and "thickness" are accociated with bodybuilding.....no power lifter or strength athlete is concered about how big or how wide they are.....they just want strength and explosovness. Thats it.....period.......they don't worry abotu big bis....how well their 6 pack shows..........its all about how well you perform at that sport and or lift( if assocaited with powerlifting)
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/01/21, 12:30 AM
ok i could write a whole heap here but quite frankly i couldnt care less cuz
1.) i dun see the point in wasting my time
2.) ur just gonna bite back
and
3.) this isnt even n argument so y u procedding it on i gave u replys/answers to ur questions now im asking for ones to mine... so ill repeat one i asked to u
"may you lend me the routine your on and talking about ?? (west side) "
anyway g2g so bye!
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2005/01/21, 03:57 AM
Not to interfere in your debate fellas but why not try to attain a bit of both worlds? so for eg. going for the sixpack he'll sacrifice some power by having to drop his bf fairly low...but why not try to attain the best lifts you can at that bf..or weight...and as you become stronger and more powerful I would think you would also become 'wider' and 'thicker'...ie they are fairly correlated...
timmm the westside barbell program is here...look for it...I think it's a sticky...
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2005/01/21, 06:20 AM
no menace3000 you are not interferring, thanks for that ill look right away:)
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2005/01/21, 01:45 PM
and i'm saying if you wanan train for strength / power train for that........gator even said bodybuilding and strength training aren't interrelated as you think.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/01/22, 08:19 PM
that's really crazy, about 3 years ago i came up with a similar idea for different types of periodization and it looks similar to that. stealer of ideas!
i call it total hybrid training (T.H.T. i can just hear the publishers screaming for my idea lol) and i abandoned it ahwile back because it's so hard to implement for your average client. i developed it in the hopes that by constantly forcing the body to adapt to new and increasing stimulus that there is little to no stagnation.
unfortunately it's a logistical nightmare! in order to get a client experienced enough to be able to perform all of the exercises necessary, i'd have to train them for years! not something i'm interested in. plus the specificity is limited, so in other words, you don't effectively train a particular strength more than others. so competitive athletes are out of course.
i might still use it for myself one day to see if there's any real benefits, but i'd have to finish all of the protocol and that'd take ahwile.
this was how it looked on my yellow pad...no kidding
day1-maximum strength session
day2-endurance session
day3-generalized power session
day4-unloading day (tai chi, yoga, pool work, etc)
day5-specific power session
day6-corrective exercise session
day7-hypertrophy session
day8-plyometrics session
day9-core conditioning session
day10-medicine ball session
etc.etc.etc.etc.
see the logistical nightmare this could be!
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2005/01/22, 11:21 PM
looks like a easy way to over train........
i'm a beliver in K.I.S.S.......keep it simple stupid.......the simplest things are what works. I've been on the west side barbell routine for abotu 10 weeks......and have seen very good improvemnets in strength and size.........and crazy thing is........its not fancy......simple and stright forward......using the basic excercises that build the best strength overall.
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/01/24, 12:31 AM
haha crazy huh? everyone always disagrees with the way i lay out my routines but they seem to work eh? so i gotta be doing something right..?
Anyway i found a new routine im currently trying and feels alright to me if anyone wants to give it a go its at:
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=508031
All i added to it was a 5 minute HIIT cardio session on the treadmil after 2 of the workouts, and the choice of doing pullovers as a exercise ( simply because i find these have been helping me alot recently )
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2005/01/24, 03:54 AM
I think a great workout for strength would be whole body training twice a week with strength and speed day similar to westside barbell method,...but full body
*=50% 1rm, no rmal pace
**50% 1rm, explode as fast as possible...fast throughout
Strength:
Cleans(12*,2,2)
Deadlift+Shrug(12*,2,2)
Squat(12*,2,2)
Barbell Curls(12*,2,2)
Barbell Bench Press(12*,2,2)
French EZ-Bar Press(12*,2,2)
Pull-Ups(12*,2,2)
Barbell Rows(12*,2,2)
Speed:
Cleans(12*,3**,3**)
Deadlift+Shrug(12*,3**,3**)
Squat(12*,3**,3**)
Barbell Curls(12*,3**,3**)
Barbell Bench Press(12*,3**,3**)
French EZ-Bar Press(12*,3**,3**)
Pull-Ups(12*,3**,3**)
Barbell Rows(12*,3**,3**)
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2005/01/24, 02:18 PM
tim ask your dad.......didn't he win the mr australia eating 15000 cal a day?
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/01/25, 02:03 AM
HAHA still cut at that are you andrew? honestly believe it or not i couldnt care less lol i eat 4000 right now and i aint getting fatty so if your on 2000 calories(BEING DOUBLE MY SIZE...)all i can say is you must kind of be a lazy ass to not burn it off, my resting metabolic rate when im not at the gym ( still at work ) is around the 3300 mark a day.. and i got that middle body type structure... anyway not that i care or saying my dad was superfit or super lazy or did "super" exercises to burn off or bulked on massively but back then that was the way he was taught, anyway my dad came 2nd for Mr australia, he came first in NSW, that was back many years ago.. alot of people use to believe in eating as much as u can whilest bulking up.. even though i disagree with it... some people still believe it soo yea end of that subject i like the routine im on now so yup end of convo.. well not rly i kno ur gonna reply to this which has no meaning anyway sobye
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2005/01/25, 12:10 PM
when did I say I eat 2000 calories?:surprised:
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My drinking squad, has a cheerleading problem!!
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2005/01/26, 05:51 PM
Andrew, i found a point where i strongly disagree with you.
"if your going for strength......back, shoulders,tris biceps, hams, are all secondary lifts......they help in the lift, by stablizing etc."
Because I try to do sport specific lifts, I do a lot of heavy weighted pull ups of different kinds to strengthen upper back and work the pulling movements, very important movements in wrestling. Whereas these may be secondary lifts in powerlifting, I agree with you there, those of us looking to get stronger for a specific sport may use these lifts with great success.
However, timmstar, as this is a powerlifting forum, Andrew is right.
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Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even.
steve
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2005/01/28, 06:17 PM
"if your going for strength......back, shoulders,tris biceps, hams, are all secondary lifts......they help in the lift, by stablizing etc."
isnt your back a main powerlifting muscle group? ... back... legs(quads) and chest??? if you have a weak back how are you going to support a big ass weight whilest squating? if you have a weak back how you going to push a bar up at the bottom of your bench? if you have a weak back where are you going to pull through for deads or cleans? i thought back was important....?......? maybe im wrong heh no more back training for me!!
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2005/01/28, 06:34 PM
yes it is a powerful group...when used in conjunction with the other hip and back extensors. ideally, you would want an even strength ratio between all three extensors (hammys, glutes, low back). to work them in isolation has limited force-couple(group of muscles performing a similar general movement) benefits unless periodized correctly...and each person is going to be different when it comes to that anyway.
if, however, you're looking to build muscle, then after you perform your most neurologically demanding exercises first, training in isolation will help for added volume.
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