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2005/03/09, 12:50 AM
Asimmer and I have been corresponding back and forth for the last week or so in regards to her getting back to fightin' weight and shape (for a comp, that is). After a while, we thought it would be a great idea to post our thoughts from these emails, which cover everything from training to dieting to supplementation while preparing for a comp. This way, maybe some other people in this community may benefit from our discussions, while also keeping asimmer motivated. We'll also keep this thread updated with changes or plans in the above mentioned discussions. Just remember: some of these regimens, whether they are for training, dieting, or supplementing, are pretty advanced, and are not meant for beginners to just jump into!
Wish her luck, and keep her positive!
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Michael
Nothing personal.... Strictly business.
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2005/03/09, 12:51 AM
Asimmer:
What do you think is my best choice for a mass/fat loss supplement? I have a couple cans of animal cuts, maybe I will start with them. I had a little pig-out party tonight and now I am ready to buckle down, kick my ass, rev.
What can i do that is anabolic, legal and won't really jack me up in a bad way? I know the first priority is getting my ass on a regulaer routine again, respiratory virus has been impeding that. But i decided that i am going to go to the gym and lift heavy unless I am dead.
What do you think about Brawn? He believes in abbreviated, heavy, compound lifting routines for mass gain. i wonder if i am so confused by all of the personal training type programming I have been exposed to that I am just chasing my own tail. Should I really be focusing on deads, squats and presses? I don't know how to do a proper clean...
I am at a point where I really do eat right, just probably not enough (I average 2000 a day).
I am also lucky right now to be supported and have an open schedule for training...so, what do you think?
Right now my routine is to go to the gym with a particular muscle group in mind and just slaughter that muscle group. One day I do chest and quads , another I will do back, calves, another shoulders, arms, i throw abs in once or twice a week. i find that when i have a set routine I rebel against it. Is this instinct training? Or a waste of time?
Hmm, I am babbling, but i hope you have the time to set me straight and kick my ass.
rev8ball:
You're right about the personal training thing: sometimes, we get so involved that we can't see the forest for the trees. Do you have a comp that you're planning on?
You want to build up mass, right? Okay, let's start out with a routine guideline first.
As you know, the trick to putting on mass and building strength is the low rep/high weight regime, and based on heavy compound lifts. Attached is an Excel file with a routine. On some of the lifts, you'll see the phrase "Off the rack." This means that you do the lift normally, pyramiding up to a 4 rep max; then, place the weight on the racks (for example, in a power cage), increase your weight, and go for the positives.
As far as diet: attached is a Word file of a diet outline I put together for a client who was on a gaining phase. Even though the serving sizes may seem a little big for you, I think you'll find it useful.
Now, on to supplements.
Since pro-hormones are no longer available, Animal Stak and Test are unfortunately not even in the equation anymore. For what you were talking about, I strongly suggest the following:
Animal Pak (multi)
Animal M-Stak (non-hormonal anabolic)
Animal Nitro (uncoupled aminos)
I have based several amateur competitors supplement routines on these (including me!), and they're doing well, including a woman who has a comp in November; she's putting on some good size, and she's 50.
Of course, you should use some other supplements, like a blended protein, but you know about those already. But, if you need some help scheduling your supps, email me what you're taking (or going to take), and I can help you with that.
Finally, go to www.animalpak.com . They have some GREAT articles (some written by yours truly), plus descriptions on the above-mentioned products, and more.
Any, any, any questions, do not hesitate to get a hold of me; I love doing this stuff
ASIMMER: (rev8ball’s remarks with astericks ****)
Cool, I can open the dietary stuff. I can't open the excel program. **** I'll see about moving it to a Word program for you.
I am fat right now - do I want to calculate my protein/carbs/fat intake by my lean mass or actual mass?****I always went for bodyweight, but that wasn't for BB. You may want to subract badyfat weight from the actual bodyweight.
Off the rack - so I set the pins to a low position and just push the weight up, or I set it to the top position and just do the down phase - you said positives, but I am confused on how I would just do positives. Do I set the bars for the bottom height and the pins for the top to unload, then move the bar back down and repeat?****I'll use the military press as an example: set the racks to where the bar will sit about nose level. Set the bar on the racks; put some poundage on it, and push up (positives). Lower the weight to rest on the racks for a sec or 2, then explode upward again. You should be able to put more weight on than a normal lift since you're not dealing with the negatives, and therefore, help your strength.
Supps - I have Beverly Intl's female power pack for vitamins right now. I will switch back to Animal if you think it is better once I use up the Beverly.****Their women's pack is good; just that the Animal Pak is a little more hardcore.
The nitro - I have amino acids (Mass by Beverly) Will this suffice until I need to buy more or is this a totally different type of supplement?****That's an overall great amino; but the Animal Nitro is made of uncoupled aminos. In other words, there is no breaking down needed. They are directly absorbed in the gut as pure aminos.
I also have the Ultra-40 (Beef liver and b-12) tabs - should I reintroduce those (I bought all of these with a plan and then stopped taking them...)**** I love liver tabs! Use them when you can.
Should I be back on creatine and should I do a loading phase?****I'd start with the creatine again since you're trying to gain. How long ago did you use it last?
I have glutamine - was taking 5g am and 5g PWO.****At least 10g/day is good.
I also have ZMA and HMB. The ZMA felt really good when I was taking it, haven't even opened the HMB yet.****I just started a ZMA product myself, so, we'll see. I've never used HMB, and, to me, I've read more con than pro in regards to it. But, that's just me.
PWO shake - carbs from malto-dextrin and dextrose as b1fit recommends and whey protein, is this good?****Yes!
I love the animal pak website - I have most of the t-shirts (shut up and train is my gym motto).****My fav is "Squat till ya puke!"
Having a hard-ass training partner who knows what he is doing would be so awesome. I told my husband that the Vegas air would be good for asthma.. he says the cost of living is high.****You're right about the asthma. But, in all actuality, the cost of living vs income ratio is fantastic out here!
Thank you so much!!! And expect lots of questions - I tend to overthink/overanalyze and then I have to ask a lot of questions to be sure I am doing things right...****Anytime. I'm also going to post on FTs my current supp schedule so you can take a look at it as well.
Asimmer:
I last used creatine before I got sick - so probably around Christmas time. Geez, have I been sick off and on since then? Shitty.
Anyhow, I am guessing that I should load because it has been so long.
I will start my vits, glutamine and liver tabs, add in amino on Monday when I intend to start lifting again (still hacking up junk) and will start a loading phase of creatine Monday - if that is what you recommend.
Should I pick up the M-stak this weekend and start that on Monday as well?
Rev8ball:
Your stack sounds good. I'd wait on the M-Stak to see how far you can get on your own; then, when you hit a plateau or something, you can start that as well.
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Michael
Nothing personal.... Strictly business.
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2005/03/09, 01:00 AM
MONDAY
BACK
Traditional Deadlifts
T Bar Rows
Narrow Grip Pull Downs
Pull Ups
TRICEPS
Narrow Grip Press
Floor Dumbbell Extensions
Dips
V-Bar Pushdowns
(S/S)
TUESDAY
SHOULDERS
Military Press-Heavy, Off the Rack
Arnold Presses
Front Deltoid Raise
s/s Lateral Dumbbell Raise
Rope Pulls to the Face
Upright Rows
Barbell Shrugs
THURSDAY
QUADS
Squats-Heavy, Off the Rack
Leg Presses
Barbell Lunges
Leg Extensions
HAMS/GLUTES/CALVES
Lying Leg Curl
Cable Kickbacks
Standing Calf Raises
Seated Calf Raises
FRIDAY
CHEST
Flat Bench Press-Heavy, Off the Rack/Floor
Incline Bench Press
Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell Flat Bench Press
(light)
BICEPS
Concentration Curls
Barbell Rev. Preacher Curls
Incline Curls
Dumbbell Hammer Curls
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Michael
Nothing personal.... Strictly business.
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2005/03/09, 04:38 AM
Best of luck, Amy!
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2005/03/09, 10:01 AM
*** indicates my questions for you, rev...
Overall - what rep scheme should I use? Start with 8 and pyramid the weight up to a 4 rep max set?
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Quoting from rev8ball:
MONDAY
BACK
Traditional Deadlifts *** Not stiff-legged?
T Bar Rows *** if no t-bar can I sub something? I can jam my bar into the corner at home and do a simulated t-bar row with the narrowgrip attachment, is that okay?
Narrow Grip Pull Downs - ***with the narrow attachment (hands face each other ) or the regular bar, hands narrow, palms forward?
Pull Ups *** assisted okay? I weigh too much right now to do unassisted.
TRICEPS
Narrow Grip Press
Floor Dumbbell Extensions*** is this skull-crushers with dumbbells, on the floor?
Dips
V-Bar Pushdowns
(S/S)***superset dips and push-downs, yes?
TUESDAY
SHOULDERS
Military Press-Heavy, Off the Rack
Arnold Presses
Front Deltoid Raise
s/s Lateral Dumbbell Raise
Rope Pulls to the Face
Upright Rows
Barbell Shrugs
THURSDAY
QUADS
Squats-Heavy, Off the Rack
Leg Presses
Barbell Lunges
Leg Extensions
HAMS/GLUTES/CALVES
Lying Leg Curl
Cable Kickbacks
Standing Calf Raises
Seated Calf Raises
FRIDAY
CHEST
Flat Bench Press-Heavy, Off the Rack/Floor
Incline Bench Press
Dumbbell Flyes
Dumbbell Flat Bench Press
(light)
BICEPS
Concentration Curls
Barbell Rev. Preacher Curls***e-z curl bar okay?
Incline Curls
Dumbbell Hammer Curls
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When should I throw in cardio at this point? Or should I just maximize intensity in the workouts and maximize rest the other days?
I am looking forward to leg day :)
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GYPO (JK)
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2005/03/09, 12:31 PM
MONDAY
BACK
Traditional Deadlifts *** Not stiff-legged?----No
T Bar Rows *** if no t-bar can I sub something? I can jam my bar into the corner at home and do a simulated t-bar row with the narrowgrip attachment, is that okay? ----That will work.
Narrow Grip Pull Downs - ***with the narrow attachment (hands face each other ) -----This one
Pull Ups *** assisted okay? I weigh too much right now to do unassisted. ---That's fine. Not too many people can just jump into them.
TRICEPS
Narrow Grip Press
Floor Dumbbell Extensions*** is this skull-crushers with dumbbells, on the floor? ----I'll post a great description of this in a bit.
Dips
V-Bar Pushdowns
(S/S)***superset dips and push-downs, yes? ----Yeppers
Barbell Rev. Preacher Curls***e-z curl bar okay? That's the one.
Overall scheme: For the first lift for a particular body part, pyramid up, including a warm up. Subsequent lifts for the same bodypart, pyramid down (since the muscles are already warmed up). Other than that, keep weights heavy, and form perfect, so you get a good, solid 4-6 reps.
You should still do some cardio; but like you said, keep your intensity high, and get your rest.
This routine that I posted is just an example of a regime that I gave another BB who was trying to put on some mass and gain some strength. It is flexable; use your own experience as needed.
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Michael
Nothing personal.... Strictly business.
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2005/03/11, 03:28 PM
GO AMY! This is motivating me also! Guess I'll have to work harder. Good luck to you.
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Scales are for dead weight: We are not dead yet!
Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/03/13, 11:47 PM
Sounds like a re-run Amy? :) Good luck to you.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/03/14, 09:09 AM
Yep, just keep getting back up... I am still using your dietary advice a lot. i didn't want to ask you for help again, because i felt I had abused that privilege in the past by falling off the plan.
Circumstances have changed somewhat, so i am looking forward to adherence and success this time around.
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Quoting from bb1fit:
Sounds like a re-run Amy? :) Good luck to you.
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2005/03/14, 09:45 AM
You can do it Amy, I am pulling for you. Remember, it is not about if you use Beverly supplements, or Animal Pak, or whatever, any good solid products will do. It is not the training regimine, there are literally hundreds of them you can do and if you follow them, you will succeed. In the end what matters is between your ears! Always remember that, stay focused, and you will succeed.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/03/14, 02:08 PM
I know you can do it if you want to, you have shown yourself the way many times and come out a success! Do it again and we'll be here cheering you on!
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Veda
MISERY IS OPTIONAL
***When you are up to your ears in trouble, try using the part that is not submerged.
***The difference between a dream and a goal is a plan.
HAVE A GREAT DAY!
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2005/03/15, 05:04 PM
:):love: Ron and Veda, That means more than you know.
I just realized today that I haven't coughed today! I decided to still rest and increase my vitamin intake, etc, until next Monday so I don't relapse, but today we cleaned up the weight room and are rearranging the equipment.
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GYPO (JK)
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2005/03/17, 12:09 PM
I want to train with you! But we are GUD!:dumbbell::big_smile:
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Scales are for dead weight: We are not dead yet!
Still trying to find out how to do the Hollywood Free Press.
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
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2005/03/18, 08:51 AM
This is a fantastic topic of discussion. I love that its detailed. Thank you both for the info. Even though I cant lift for competition (which I'd love to do...but due to an aorta issue and surgery impending I cant chance to much stress...but I do get a kick out of the mentality of working out to be fit, which is WHY I enjoy the bodybuilding aspect of training. Whom better to discuss eating, supplements, training than those that do this for a living. I am aware that not all training/eating is for everyone...but I have learned so much from the forum. High ^ to Ya'll :) for the discussion. AMY GO FOR IT...for those of us who'd love to but can't. :) CC
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2005/03/25, 05:51 AM
OI!
What's happening? Amy? Rev? :big_smile:
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2005/03/29, 09:35 AM
:) I have been achey and fatigued, my sleep schedule has been interrupted by elk hounds .
Yesterday i got up and had a shake and rode the bike, then walked the dogs for an hour after lunch.
Today i am going to nap and this evening I will lift. I feel i need to spend some time easing into a heavy lifting routine again, as my elbows are sore when i haven't been lifting and my knees have been very stiff. I think as i get my diet sorted out again and get back into the swing of things my aches and pains will subside. Also hoping to get a new mattress soon..sleep would help!
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GYPO (JK)
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2005/04/15, 12:56 PM
Geeeze, I kid you not, I have pneumonia and I am ordered not to lift for a month. i can start walking as soon as i can breath and feel up to it, I get my lungs re-x-rayed in two weeks, and then in 2-3 weeks from that okay on being pneumonia free i can start lifting light. I am thinking it will be back to square one with a light, total body routine for a few weeks at that point...grrrr.
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GYPO (JK)
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2005/04/15, 08:29 PM
good luck amy... hope u get well soon... don't worry about getting back to square one.. u'll get into swing of it pretty soon... best of luck
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A life worth living is a life lived with honor and dignity..bow to no moral.. THATS ME
Me and My Body are competitors... we compete each other for different goals..
supplements are Helpers.. not the Drivers of Health wagon
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2005/04/16, 09:20 AM
Get well soon :)
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2005/04/16, 02:51 PM
thanks.
One good outcome will be how clean my palate will be from not eating very much - I won't crave junk because I won't have had it for so long, right now nothing sounds good, i have managed to eat some yogurt, some oats, sugarfree jello.. last night I made mahi mahi and some mashed yams. That seems to have been too much, my system didn't handle it too well.
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2005/04/17, 03:32 PM
I am sorry to hear that Asimmer....best to you and get your health back first and foremost!
============
Quoting from asimmer:
Geeeze, I kid you not, I have pneumonia and I am ordered not to lift for a month. i can start walking as soon as i can breath and feel up to it, I get my lungs re-x-rayed in two weeks, and then in 2-3 weeks from that okay on being pneumonia free i can start lifting light. I am thinking it will be back to square one with a light, total body routine for a few weeks at that point...grrrr.
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If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
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2005/04/18, 10:00 AM
A little update - my energy levels are increasing and my breathing is much better... yesterday i took a trip to the ER because my husband noticed that the whites of my eyes were turning yellow!
They ran all sorts of liver tests and blood work and found that I am actually very healthy (other than that pesky pneumonia:() and they think the jaundice is caused by the antibiotic shots they gave me. (For all of you medical term junkies out there - it has something to do with the bilirueben receptor sites' ability to bind with the bili - the antibiotics caused them to not bind and so the bili surface and show up in the eyes and skin).
Well - after the scary prospect of liver failure (I always go to the worst scenario with medical things when it concerns my body:surprised:), I know that i could never do steroids or anything else that would cause damage to my vital organs like that!!!!
I guess the silver lining of all this is two-fold:
1 - I have just had reams of blood work done on me and everything came up really healthy
2 - I have a new outlook on life and how lucky I am to live in the century that I do (pneumonia would have killed m without modern medicine, I fear) and i have an awesome fresh start on my health.
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Every new day is a gift.
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2005/04/19, 04:49 PM
Good to hear, asimmer! Can't wait for you to start up, and start kickin' some boooootteeeee! :cool:
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Michael
Nothing personal.... Strictly business.
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2005/05/03, 03:52 PM
Yesterday i walked the dogs a bit, and went to the grocery store and ran errands - wiped me out!
Yesterday's food intake:
6:30 medi-fast oatmeal
9:30 am 2 eggs, 3 egg whites, spinach, ff mozarella, smear of spaghetti sauce
Home from grocery...1:00 healthy choice shrimp and chicken with rice
3:00 chopped up detour bar (small size)
5:30 leftover mashed potatoes/gravy and 1 cup cottage cheese
6:30 2 slices healthnut bread with smart balance (hungry, not enough calories earlier?)
8pm 1/2 golden delicious apple
still recovering.
Today:
6:30 1 egg, 4 whites, spinach, ff mozarella
1 slice ww, 1 slice health nut smart balance
coffee
dog park - walked 1/2 hour (missed a meal in here, drank water)
11:45 stir-fry (homemade), onion, cabbage, chicken tenders, sf stirfry sauce, rice
2:30 strawberry protein shake
Dinner will be baked potato, light sour cream, olive oil, pork, and green beans.
snack will be cottage cheese with ground flaxseeds.
Got almost a gallon of water in yesterday, aiming for that amount today. :)
Walking uphill at the park really winded me, and I don't want to relapse before going to Florida this weekend, so i am not lifting yet!
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Vitality shows not only in the ability to persist but the ability to start over. - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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2005/05/12, 11:34 AM
I worked out today!!!!! Nothing record-breaking - but a workout and I feel really good!
I am easing back into it with a workout from lean, long and strong. You do upper body one day, lower body the next and core another, you work m,t, th, f. the routines rotate. I will follow it until I feel i am back up for heavier work (still a little wheezy in the morning).
But I am so psyched just to have worked out again!:big_smile::dumbbell:
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Vitality shows not only in the ability to persist but the ability to start over. - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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2005/05/12, 02:15 PM
Yay! Welcome back :big_smile::big_smile:
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2005/05/13, 11:50 AM
Nice to see you're recovering.
Where, in Florida, did you go?
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2005/05/14, 10:52 AM
We spent the weekend in the Keyes. It was very cool. Swam with dolphins (my daughter's golden birthday wish), swam in the ocean, went to a pirate museum, ate sushi, ate cajun food, drove up towards Miami and went to the everglades alligator farm, rode an airboat, held a big snake, drove up to Miami and ate cuban food (soooo good), packed a lot into 3 days!!! This was our first family vacation aside from car trips around Minnesota - so it was very cool.
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Vitality shows not only in the ability to persist but the ability to start over. - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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2005/05/18, 01:17 AM
dang...I'm a native and I still havnt gone to the Keys
but I have loved my trips to Miami. I can't remember the name of the popular mall there but it's set on a dock and open air style..live music playing late into the night...it rocks.
I miss cuban food, and Puerto Rican food...I've only found one Cuban restaurant here in Oceanside, Cali..it's mostly Mexican Latino food here. That's good too, just not what I'm used to.
I'm glad you liked it. Miami's kinda pricy, but most Northies say the rest of Florida is cheap (low economy)
I dunno if Floridians ever go on vacation.....I was 18 yrs old before I even visited Disney, tho I do love Busch Gardens. you should hit that place when(if) you go back (hey, they give 2 free samples of their beers and you can always buy more , plus they have a sick wooden roller coaster=)
The panhandle areas, like Santa Rosa Beach and Destin are a bit cooler but still just a lovely as the rest. Gorgeous beaches.
I hope the state had recovered from the 'canes last summer. I moved in November and the damage was still bad in some spots. It's usualy a beautifull state tho. glad you liked your trip:)
Now I am feeling homesick.........
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2005/05/18, 01:32 AM
BTW
a cool thing to do in Fla is to see the sunrise on an east-coast beach and then watch the sunset on a west-coast beach.
many parts of the state you can cross it in about 6-8 hrs drive, so if you can stand to be up so early in the morning it's worth it!!!
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2005/05/18, 08:41 AM
There were still piles of debris around, i am assuming from the hurricanes last year.
Sounds like the hurricanes are coming early this year.
Sorry to make you homesick, I hope you can visit soon.
At least you are still in a warm climate near the ocean, right?
We came home and it has rained for nearly two weeks straight. Blah. And the humidity in Minnesota is worse than it was in Florida - what's up with that?
Oh well.
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2005/05/22, 01:33 AM
I really liked this thread :)
We're all with you asimmer!
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- Nina :o) Les Victoires éternelles sont celles du coeur.
www.nme-pro.com
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2005/05/26, 07:57 AM
Update - I have been having a lot of low back and neck pain, and muscle pain , since I had pneumonia. my doc sent me to the physical therapist. The physical therapist thinks I deconditioned when I was sick and is going to help me re-strengthen my core and is also treating various dysfunctions that are going on in my hips, knee, etcetera.
So, she said no heavy lifting for a while, stick with the lean, long and strong workouts for now and focus on getting functional, then it will be more effective when I do get back to heavier workouts. the physical therapist is cool, she said she had considered getting into bodybuilding competition before...
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Vitality shows not only in the ability to persist but the ability to start over. - F. Scott Fitzgerald
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2005/05/28, 03:38 AM
Makes all the difference seeing a professional who knows about lifting - I saw a physio once who was suggesting I do push ups against the wall and body weight squats, and I tried to explain to her that I do push ups on the floor, and squats with 40kg - so her suggestions were redundant, but she didn't understand. My chiropractor lifts, it's so much better - I can have involved conversations about what I can and can't do.
Anyway, I'm rambling, keep up the good work and keep us posted, Amy
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The path to righteousness is a cycle path
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