|
2004/10/13, 10:44 PM
I have just finished watching the third presidential debate.I am convinced of one thing. We are not drawing the best and the brightest into American politics.
--------------
I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol
Charlie
|
|
|
|
2004/10/13, 11:25 PM
talking, yes. saying anything? no. it pains me to have to cover this b.s. for a living. will the candadians accept me as a citizen? ivan? tim? please, i'm begging.
--------------
i wish you ill, ice-t.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
|
|
2004/10/14, 12:14 AM
You know, it's hard work...
Anyhoo... Howdie, you are more than welcome to become a Canadian... hell, we'll even set you up with a beaver...
--------------
t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
|
|
2004/10/14, 02:31 AM
thanks tim :big_smile: now that jim carrey has become an american citizen, there should be room for me. as if being set up with a beaver wasn't enough incentive...
--------------
i wish you ill, ice-t.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
|
|
2004/10/14, 07:20 AM
politics and those in it are nothing more than a slight of hand ticks. These people will do and say anything to get the polls to run their way and get into office. There is a favorite saying of mine, bear with me my spelling is bad I know...."Absoulte power corrupts abosutly". I really believe that no one can go into office in this country and stay honest. That is why I never ever vote. It does nothing to change a thing.
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/14, 08:00 AM
In my opininon if you don't vote, you shouldn't complain about anything.
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/14, 09:05 AM
I agree with Hec... if everybody that didn't vote, voted, the landscape would be totally different in the office...
I believe they all go in with good intentions, but things change when you're on the other side of the desk... you're right Mutt, about absolute power... but you should vote, that's what we've fought for...
--------------
t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
|
|
2004/10/14, 09:13 AM
You are exactly right Tim...and good intentions don't amount to shit.
The way I see it, the president does not run the country...he is just the hood ornament on the get away car of politics.
|
|
2004/10/14, 10:05 AM
I agree that everybody should inform themselves and vote. It's aweful to have to hold your nose and chose between Ho and Hum while you do it.
We are now imposing our own form of term limits and voting exclusively against the incumbent. On the president I won't know who to pick until I close the curtain on the booth.
--------------
I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol
Charlie
|
|
2004/10/14, 10:07 AM
People should really pay more attention to the law makers that they are voting into office. Some of these ultra conservative and ultra liberal Senator's are the ones who are killing me.
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/14, 08:02 PM
Why vote. I mean it is not like I have not weighed the pros and cons. And Hec I am not complaining at all. I just do not see the good voteing does. It matters not what they saw cause no one going into that office is really free to do what he wants. I think we all know that right? Anyway my not voting is my way to protest the crap in office since I do not see anyone that is worth my vote.
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/14, 08:19 PM
but by not voting you automatically cast your vote for the majority. honestly, i don't see a candidate in this election worth voting for, but i'm going to vote anyway even if it means writing charlie in as a candidate. voting is a liberty that the government can't take away from me, even if they're trying to restrict the rest of my freedoms through legislation such as the patriot act. there are people in other countries that would die for the chance to have a say in who heads their government. enough people have already died for the u.s. so that i might have this opportunity, and i'm not prepared to squander my chance to use it.
--------------
i wish you ill, ice-t.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
|
|
2004/10/14, 09:05 PM
I agree with Howdie... voting is something I always looked forward to... I don't think it's a matter of 'there is no one worth voting for,' but 'who is the best choice.'
Quite honestly I don't think anyone is 100% happy with who is in office... if they tell you they are, then they are lieing or don't know all the facts... (just my opinion.)
We had a website here for the last Canadian Federal Election with the pros and cons of voting... www.apathyisboring.com It was geared toward youth, but informative for every age...
Voting is something that should almost be mandatory... (again, just my opinion!)
--------------
t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
|
|
2004/10/14, 09:21 PM
Hey Howdiekat! The "red carpet" is out, come by anytime, and we have a good healthplan (for now anyway) get here while it's hot! Oh forgot to tell you, Quebec has its bulls@#t too!
--------------
"A will finds a way, failure is not an option"
Ivan
carivan@freetrainers.com
Montreal Canada
|
|
2004/10/14, 10:47 PM
merci beaucoup ivan. something tells me that the bs in quebec would be favorable compared to the partisan nonsense and pandering to corporate interests that goes on here. le sigh...
--------------
i wish you ill, ice-t.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
|
|
2004/10/14, 11:22 PM
Partisan nonsense....
ultra conservatives....
ultra liberals....
pandering......
there are people in other countries that would die for the chance to have a say in who heads their government. enough people have already died for the u.s. so that i might have this opportunity, and i'm not prepared to squander my chance to use it.....
'there is no one worth voting for,' but 'who is the best choice.'
There are some damn smart people here in this fitness board. A few posts hit the high spots of the problems and offered the only remedies we have. I'm still depressed about our countries situation but I've seen it worse. We do need to all vote and be done with this devisive election. Then figure a way to come together as a nation and make these polititians do their jobs.
You folks always cheer me up when I'm depressed. Thanks.
Dfly...hood ornaments..:big_smile:
howdie, even if its Charlie???? If you're puttin me in the league of dubya and jfngkerry I think I've been insulted
:big_smile:
--------------
I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol
Charlie
|
|
2004/10/14, 11:49 PM
charlie, if we could convince america to vote for you the world would be a better place. you know i'd never take a pot shot at uncle chuck:big_smile:
--------------
i wish you ill, ice-t.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
|
|
2004/10/14, 11:51 PM
:big_smile::big_smile:I know. Isn't this a great place??
--------------
I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol
Charlie
|
|
2004/10/15, 12:08 AM
Just out of curiosity, can one base their vote on Jib-Jab?
By the way, I just came back from a municipal forum (civic elections are on Monday)... very informative.. it's given me lots to think about....
VOTE!
--------------
t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
|
|
2004/10/15, 12:13 AM
Jibjab is as good a vote basis as the debates were. Billy Crystal just said on Letterman that it was obvious to him after watching the debates that neither candidate was on performance enhancing drugs.
--------------
I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol
Charlie
|
|
2004/10/15, 12:15 AM
Now that is damned funny:laugh::laugh:
--------------
t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
|
|
2004/10/15, 12:59 AM
I almost spewed my coffee charlie at that one ...
|
|
2004/10/15, 07:37 AM
Well the Australian vote has just gone by and our fool of a prime minister just got re-elected (not that anyone outside australia cares). Just wondering Hec being in your line of work this election could hold big consequences for you so whats your take on the situation?
|
|
2004/10/15, 07:53 AM
Actually firemansam the previous four years have had big consequences on my line of work. 1,088 of my fellow comrades have died, and our current leaders have not really showed me a plan to change this. I am going to vote for a change instead of complaining about the current regime.
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/15, 07:54 AM
So we should become a communist country and be ruled by dictatorship?
============
Quoting from 7707mutt:
Why vote. I mean it is not like I have not weighed the pros and cons. And Hec I am not complaining at all. I just do not see the good voteing does. It matters not what they saw cause no one going into that office is really free to do what he wants. I think we all know that right? Anyway my not voting is my way to protest the crap in office since I do not see anyone that is worth my vote.
=============
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/15, 10:26 AM
Hec....I am indeed sorry for your comrades in arms. I am curious, maybe I can be enlightened, what a "change" is going to bring us? If he wasn't such an "unreliable" (and that is putting it nicely) person, in all aspects of his campaign (say whatever anyone wants to hear basically), I may be able to bring myself to change also. I am curious as to your thoughts being in the marines, is the war on terror optional???? No politics here, just real questions for someone concerned about his country.
============
Quoting from hecdarec:
Actually firemansam the previous four years have had big consequences on my line of work. 1,088 of my fellow comrades have died, and our current leaders have not really showed me a plan to change this. I am going to vote for a change instead of complaining about the current regime.
=============
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/15, 11:46 AM
I am for change too. In spite of what the debaters yammered and pandered at me, in spite of the fact that I've always been conservative, inspite of the job the current guy did immediately after 9/11. We have burned every bridge in the world that could join us in this fight.
I haven't heard about 1 conviction of captured terrorists in Guantanimo. I've only heard of a few terrorists in the U.S. being tried out of hundreds being detained. We go on heightened terrorist aleart all the time without being told why. I am sick of being kept in the dark.
According to both sides, there are between 5000 and 125000 trained Iraqis ready to police the war zone. The current guys have reported up to 200,000 troops but retracted that.What is the truth?? I'm afraid that no matter what the Iraqi election result is that an eventual civil war is inevitable. If so what was all this for?
Local state and national leaders ignore the wants of the people. Locally we had a referendum which defeated using tax money for a new NBA arena. The same thing happened on light rail. The city/county council turned around and did it anyway. What do you do.
This country was founded with the idea that citizens would go serve a term or two as elected representatives and then go home. This system would assure that representatives would vote their conscience and not stay in office forever building power bases and doing the bidding of special interest groups and lobbiests. The system won't give us term limits. Term limits have passed the congress only to be shut down in the senate when so much pork was attached to the bill that nobody could vote for it. Is there any reason why a Teddy Kennedy or a Jesse Helms should be a senator for 40 years???
The current guy says there is no draft. In Vietnam military types served a 1 year tour. I have a 57 year old cousin in the SC National guard who served 1 year and 8 months in Iraq and has 30 years in service. He can't leave the guard now if he wants to . If this isn't a backdoor draft I don't know what is.
The leader of the free world needs to think out of the box. I really don't believe either candidate can do this. As I said in the beginning of this thread we don't attract the best and the brightest as our leaders. We get billionaires who are clueless as to what real American lives are like because only billionaires can afford the campaigne to win the office. For me, it isn't political. Its just about change.
--------------
I drive way too fast to worry about cholesterol
Charlie
|
|
2004/10/15, 11:55 AM
I feel some of the best and brightest can't afford it... it costs too much money for the average joe to get to where Bush and Kerry are... which, to me, is just downright silly...
Same north of the 49th... when was the last time we didn't have a lawyer or big business guy running the country...? I'm not saying I'd be any better at it, but I'll tell you more electorate would relate to an average guy than a guy wearing a suit which costs more than I make in a month...
--------------
t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
|
|
2004/10/15, 01:16 PM
Thanks for your thoughts Charlie...well thought out.
Neither guy is great, this one is even worse than the last choice was!!
============
Quoting from charlie826:
I am for change too. In spite of what the debaters yammered and pandered at me, in spite of the fact that I've always been conservative, inspite of the job the current guy did immediately after 9/11. We have burned every bridge in the world that could join us in this fight.
I haven't heard about 1 conviction of captured terrorists in Guantanimo. I've only heard of a few terrorists in the U.S. being tried out of hundreds being detained. We go on heightened terrorist aleart all the time without being told why. I am sick of being kept in the dark.
According to both sides, there are between 5000 and 125000 trained Iraqis ready to police the war zone. The current guys have reported up to 200,000 troops but retracted that.What is the truth?? I'm afraid that no matter what the Iraqi election result is that an eventual civil war is inevitable. If so what was all this for?
Local state and national leaders ignore the wants of the people. Locally we had a referendum which defeated using tax money for a new NBA arena. The same thing happened on light rail. The city/county council turned around and did it anyway. What do you do.
This country was founded with the idea that citizens would go serve a term or two as elected representatives and then go home. This system would assure that representatives would vote their conscience and not stay in office forever building power bases and doing the bidding of special interest groups and lobbiests. The system won't give us term limits. Term limits have passed the congress only to be shut down in the senate when so much pork was attached to the bill that nobody could vote for it. Is there any reason why a Teddy Kennedy or a Jesse Helms should be a senator for 40 years???
The current guy says there is no draft. In Vietnam military types served a 1 year tour. I have a 57 year old cousin in the SC National guard who served 1 year and 8 months in Iraq and has 30 years in service. He can't leave the guard now if he wants to . If this isn't a backdoor draft I don't know what is.
The leader of the free world needs to think out of the box. I really don't believe either candidate can do this. As I said in the beginning of this thread we don't attract the best and the brightest as our leaders. We get billionaires who are clueless as to what real American lives are like because only billionaires can afford the campaigne to win the office. For me, it isn't political. Its just about change.
=============
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/15, 01:26 PM
No hec we should not be commies. But in reality voiting for kerry of bush will not change the basic everyday fact that the Pres has to make choices that will not be popular or nice and no matter what they say on the campaign trail will make a difference. You all can talk about the need to vote that it is my right yada yada. I honnor the memory of tose that fight and die for me and my country. But I have studied our history and have yet to see one election that actually did some good. Sure some presidents were better than others but then again they were men. ANd men make mistakes. I do think that they do the best they can, but I feel that as a tax paying american I have the right to vote or not vote. I still think it is a waste of time. And generaly just breeds discontent amongst us. I mean really, Back when Clinton was elected they held a party that featured 1000.00$ a plate ticket which the peopel of DC and across the country fell over themselves to pay, yet just a few blocks away people were starving and dying. So by the act of electing Bill into office change their lives? No will electing Bush back or Kerry make a difference in the ave life of the american public? No. I am afraid our political system is little more than a cheesey reality show.
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/15, 01:26 PM
First off, let me say that I am in now way a political person. I am, however, very much patriotic. I love this country. I am fascinated by how we became free and fought for our own freedom. The reason why I want the Bush regime out is because I feel as if there is not a plan in place for IRAQ. I honestly believe that. I believe that our troops are over there fighting for a country that does not want to be free. Don't you think that if they wanted to be free they would have fought for it the same way that the U.S.A. fought for its freedom over 200 years ago? I think that George Bush is a man of conviction, but I think that he is making too many enemies along the way by being smug and arrogant, and trying to play the part of this big bad Texan instead of our President, and I think that if he continues to lead America in this direction that it will eventually lead to a World War. That is why I am not voting for Bush. I wish Roosevelt was alive.
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/15, 01:41 PM
But, Mutt, how can you say the next guy will be the same as the last guy if we don't vote to find out?
--------------
t
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self. - Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
|
|
2004/10/15, 01:51 PM
So Mutt you are saying that the very first presidential election did not do any good? What history did you study? It seems that people (and I am not pointing at anybody specifically, just people in general) harp on and pick and point out all of the bad things that America represents, but what about all of the good things that we represent? I guarantee you that the majority of American's would not choose to live anywhere else if given the chance. But as a nation we sit back and complain about all of the horrible things that are going on. For as long as the world has been around there have been rich people and people living in poverty. This is not going to change no matter who the president is. How much money does America spend on feeding the homeless, giving them shelter, etc....? We do it all around the world, not just at home, but for some reason we are hated. I dont get it. I especially dont get the people who live here and hate the country. Get the hell out and go live in a third world country, where you dont have the right to complain about your leaders.
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/15, 02:11 PM
I was sitting in our campsite last weekend, and the discussion of polotics came up. I am for Bush, and the ENTIRE rest of my family is for Kerry. In not so many words, my father in law wagged his finger at me and told me that what my opinion is is wrong, and that I should not feel the way I do. It almost brought me to tears.
If we are going to talk about polotics, lets keep in mind that we all grew up in different situations, we all have different life stories, we all think differently and have different opinions. Keep it civilized and respect peoples right to think freely even if you don't agree with them. If we don't, then we are no better than the people we complain about.
|
|
2004/10/15, 02:12 PM
Although the electoral college is a somewhat outdated process, and minimizes the role of the voter, the vote is important and has created many good, and bad things in history. If you look back at history and the stances that parties held at the times of certain elections it is interesting to think where we might be today. For example consider the Election of 1860. If the opposing parties platform included a pro-slavery platform. At the time this would have severe implications for the health of the country and perhaps even our unity going into the future.
Other president's institued or supported such items as Social Security, League of Nations, United Nations, NAFTA, etc, etc. In each of these cases the opposing candidate may have taken a different path.
However, I can agree to this point. You vote won't count in two situations. A. You don't cast it, or B. You allow someone else to influence. Although voting is a civil responsibility, it is not simply the act of marking the ballot, but also educating yourself as best you can on the issue at hand. It is important to realize that the freedom that America gives allows you to shun that responsibility, but "Even if you choose not to choose, you still have made a choice."
I would encourage everyone to check out www.factcheck.org. It has really been amazing to me how badly both sides skew their facts. Be Informed.
:)
Daniel Love
|
|
2004/10/15, 02:15 PM
I dont think that anybody here has been uncivil and I respect everybody's choices and beliefs.
============
Quoting from CristalBelle:
I was sitting in our campsite last weekend, and the discussion of polotics came up. I am for Bush, and the ENTIRE rest of my family is for Kerry. In not so many words, my father in law wagged his finger at me and told me that what my opinion is is wrong, and that I should not feel the way I do. It almost brought me to tears.
If we are going to talk about polotics, lets keep in mind that we all grew up in different situations, we all have different life stories, we all think differently and have different opinions. Keep it civilized and respect peoples right to think freely even if you don't agree with them. If we don't, then we are no better than the people we complain about.
=============
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/15, 02:16 PM
And by the way, if Charlie was an option, thats where my vote would be!
|
|
2004/10/15, 02:25 PM
elections that made a difference:
1860: james buchanan v. abraham lincoln. under buchanan's power the nation was ripping apart at the seams. at this point in history, neither women or blacks have the right to vote, but lincoln is elected and, despite leading this country into a civil war, frees the slaves and sets the nation on the course for truly being a land of freedom for everyone.
1932: herbert hoover v. franklin d. roosevelt. hoover stood idly by while the nation sank into the great depression, initially thinking it was no more than a slight downturn. when he realized it was more than that, he had no vision to get the country out of the hole. enter arguably the greatest president ever to occupy the oval office. fdr lead this country out of the depression with conviction and was elected for 2 more terms, prompting congress to amend the constitution to impose a formal 2 term limit for the president.
shall i go on? what it seems like to me is that this country is going through another period of afterthought presidents, only this time there is a lot more at stake for the u.s. in the late 1800s, from rutherford b. hayes who took office in 1877 to william mckinley who left office in 1901, there were no memorable presidents, but there were also no impending threats to our country. it was of no consequence that the man running the show was an incompetent babboon. now, however, there is a very serious threat to the country and the incompetent babboon in charge had alienated everyone in the world except britian and poland. god forbid poland isn't on our side.
the way i see it, this is an election for change. even if it is for a lesser of 2 evils, change will do this country good. take for example 1968 when nixon defeated lbj. with the country unhappily mired in vietnam, they voted for nixon, who was a slime ball, but got the country out of the war. even though nixon was a liar and a crook in the end, the people voted for change and the people got it.
so will this election make a difference? will one person's vote make a difference? you never know. look at florida. look at ohio, new mexico, and rhode island. i live in a red state, but that doesn't mean i'm not going to cast my vote for change because in the end, my voice will be heard in one way or another, and yes, it does matter.
--------------
i wish you ill, ice-t.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
|
|
2004/10/15, 02:31 PM
*side note* i know we have more than 2 allies i was just trying to make a point. thought i would clarify this before anyone jumps on it.
--------------
i wish you ill, ice-t.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
|
|
2004/10/15, 06:01 PM
I believe the Iraq invasion was simply to get a "foothold" in the Middle East situation, to have a presence there to help keep and disrupt terrorist activities sposnored by neighbors such as Iran and Syria. Though of course stopping it altogether may be next to impossible, I still believe it more prudent taking it to them than fighting them here. I think the opportunity of Saddam defying 12-13?? UN mandates gave Bush the right he thought he needeed to get our presence felt over there. Unfortunately, I fault him heavily in his secondary plan, which we see was all but non existant. I think the premise was correct in the beginning, and it somehow has to be brought to a conclusion, which I feel JK cannot do, and GW will be better at completing. I love America as you do, and this is why in my mind liberalism is killing this country. Taking God and the ten commandments out of things for instance, where does that leave us? We need to have a foundation, and if it is not the ten commandments, then what? This is the fear that I have, that our country will be destroyed from within. I surely don't want to get into politics, as I mentioned I think both choices are less than stellar, but I have to lean toward conservative values for the good of my family, and my country. I would like to take the opportunity to thank you publicly for serving our great country....and God bless you and your family and keep us all safe.
============
Quoting from hecdarec:
First off, let me say that I am in now way a political person. I am, however, very much patriotic. I love this country. I am fascinated by how we became free and fought for our own freedom. The reason why I want the Bush regime out is because I feel as if there is not a plan in place for IRAQ. I honestly believe that. I believe that our troops are over there fighting for a country that does not want to be free. Don't you think that if they wanted to be free they would have fought for it the same way that the U.S.A. fought for its freedom over 200 years ago? I think that George Bush is a man of conviction, but I think that he is making too many enemies along the way by being smug and arrogant, and trying to play the part of this big bad Texan instead of our President, and I think that if he continues to lead America in this direction that it will eventually lead to a World War. That is why I am not voting for Bush. I wish Roosevelt was alive.
=============
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/15, 08:48 PM
I'm glad to see a perspective from an active duty marine, thank you Hec! I agree with all that you've posted in this thread thus far.
Now, all of us who want this change to become a reality, please go VOTE!!!!!!!
|
|
2004/10/15, 10:28 PM
Easy Hec I am not talking trash about this country. ANd Howdie those points can be debated such as did lincoln really do anything that another would not have done in his place? Same question for thos that hate Bush what would you have done inhis place? I will stand by my beliefes that voting in this country is a way for the powers that be to tame the masses and let them feel that they are taking part in this country, cause the people in charge will do wht they have to not what we want them to do.
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/15, 10:33 PM
And howdie the lesser of two evils does not make a good thing. One of the biggest reasons I will not vote is that no one person has come forward that I feel worthy of my vote, and taking the lessers of two evils stance just does not work for me.
|
|
2004/10/16, 06:38 AM
Mutt sometimes isnt it neccesary to choose between two evils? I believe if you can lessen the suffering of someone in any way you are obligated to do so, if that means choosing to except some bad in with the good then so be it.
You could debate whether someone would not of made the changes that Lincoln made but the point is that he made them and at that time, it can be said fairly certainly that buchanon would not of made the same changes.
So is it fair to let people suffer untill the problem sorts itself out if any small change can be made?
Im sorry to preach im young and i think i know much more than i do. Im sure you have many motivating factors not to vote but i think at this point in history we all have to do what we can to help get through this time no matter how big or small our role is
Hec my respect keeps on growing for you, i think i might be in love. Thankyou for sharing your views.
"At least two thirds of our miseries spring from human stupidity, human malice and those great motivators and justifiers of malice and stupidity, idealism, dogmatism and proselytizing zeal on behalf of religious or political idols." Aldous Huxley
|
|
2004/10/16, 07:09 AM
Politics make me rather angry, can we talk about something else now? :big_smile:
Uh, Sam....if I find out you have violated my husband, I will be inclined to hurt you so make sure you are only loving him from a distance, k? :love:
--------------
A morning without coffee is like something without something else....unknown
If you can't find a man, raise yourself one...bigandrew
|
|
2004/10/16, 08:05 AM
Thank you dfly! LOL that is what makes this a great great country to live!:love:
--------------
LIFT HEAVY! BECOME STRONG, LIKE BULL!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/16, 09:33 AM
I hate "talking" politics! It is so hard to have a rational discussion when it comes to this subject with anyone, everyone is so passionate in their points, half of which are not even their own, but read or heard someplace and "adopted" as fact, that they don't know how to have a real discussion. We all need to be open, and read and learn and analyze a situation as important as our great countries future and our own livelihoods.
Talking points are fine, but rhetoric gets us nowhere. In our hearts, I believe we all want what is best for our families and country, we have different ideas of how this can be accomplished...but these ideas should be formed through intelligent reasoning of the issues, not what you hear and decide I am siding with them because it sounds good.
I personally in my post was very interested in hearing Hec's side from an active serviceman...not for political reasons, but from a serviceman who loves this country as much as I do if not more.
Politics aside....I have but one thing to add...HOW ABOUT THEM CARDINALS!!!!:big_smile:
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
|
2004/10/16, 10:13 AM
Yeah lets put an end to this thread, I am getting depressed.
--------------
I have a bowel movement every morning at 9:00am sharp.
|
|
2004/10/16, 11:30 AM
============
Quoting from bb1fit:
I believe the Iraq invasion was simply to get a "foothold" in the Middle East situation, to have a presence there to help keep and disrupt terrorist activities sposnored by neighbors such as Iran and Syria. Though of course stopping it altogether may be next to impossible, I still believe it more prudent taking it to them than fighting them here. I think the opportunity of Saddam defying 12-13?? UN mandates gave Bush the right he thought he needeed to get our presence felt over there. Unfortunately, I fault him heavily in his secondary plan, which we see was all but non existant. I think the premise was correct in the beginning, and it somehow has to be brought to a conclusion, which I feel JK cannot do, and GW will be better at completing. I love America as you do, and this is why in my mind liberalism is killing this country. Taking God and the ten commandments out of things for instance, where does that leave us? We need to have a foundation, and if it is not the ten commandments, then what? This is the fear that I have, that our country will be destroyed from within. I surely don't want to get into politics, as I mentioned I think both choices are less than stellar, but I have to lean toward conservative values for the good of my family, and my country. I would like to take the opportunity to thank you publicly for serving our great country....and God bless you and your family and keep us all safe.
=============
The United States was founded on the Constitution and the first 10 amendments, the Bill of Rights, not the Ten Commandments. The United States is a democracy not a theocracy. The reason for invading Iraq was oil; WMD's and terrorists are excuses and never existed. The world is better off without Saddam Huesein and the United States will be better off without George W. Bush as President.
|
|
2004/10/16, 11:38 AM
:big_smile::big_smile::big_smile:
============
Quoting from jacksprat:
=============
--------------
If you don't stand for something, you will fall for anything....
bb1fit@freetrainers.com
|
