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2003/03/06, 06:53 PM
well, i don't know if this allowed on this board, but i guess its an issue that relates to my health... my MENTAL HEALTH. are you for or against the war. just curious......
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2003/03/06, 09:09 PM
Although this is supposed to be a board devoted to fitness-related issues, the whole issue of war could affect everyone worldwide; so, I don't see a problem asking a question about it. Like you said, its a 'mental health' issue.
I, personally, welcome the idea of any and all military force to oust Saddam Hussein. I am not 'pro-war' all the time; I just think that the United Nations should open their eyes and see what a heartless @$*#$^& dirtbag Saddam really is. He's killed his own family members just for disagreeing with his policies. Is that really someone we should have diplomatic ties with?
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--JBennett
"I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!"
"Pain is only weakness leaving the body."
"Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
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2003/03/06, 09:10 PM
against
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/06, 09:26 PM
For
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2003/03/06, 10:05 PM
Saddam has to go. I am all for military force. If we would have done it soon after 9/11, there wouldn't even be this discussion. We had a mandate we let go. Now the weeping libs and these hollywood nuts have gained a foothold. I wonder how many of their movies would make millions over there? They want to be human shields! I say, send them all over there, if they don't like it here, lets see how well they live over there! Nothing has changed folks, Saddam must go, and the sooner the better. I hate to see the loss of lives, but only history will actually tell us if we are right or wrong. The end justifies the means.
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/03/07, 01:33 AM
Three words: Treaty of Versialles...
Drop him hard, fast, and move on to the next target.
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Michael
"Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!"
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2003/03/07, 02:30 AM
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Quoting from rev8ball:
Three words: Treaty of Versialles...
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VERSAILLES!! Hmmm lol that's the place where I'll be next weekend actually.....
__________________________________________
Drop him hard, fast, and move on to the next target.
__________________________________________________
I couldn't agree more.........
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- Nina :o) Les Victoires éternelles sont celles du coeur.
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2003/03/07, 06:51 AM
i was against, but after listening to bush last night now im undecided. Quote from last nights speech i really liked:"We love freedom, and we're not changing!" philia2; you live in france right? does everyone really hate our guts over there? just curious....
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2003/03/07, 07:04 AM
Seeing I'm in the military, I do what my Commander and Chief tells me. My opinion is irrelevant. I can appreciate both sides of the story however. I can assure you of one thing, if we do go to war, the men and women of the US military will do their jobs well.
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2003/03/07, 08:12 AM
For it , It's about time we had a president who wont back down...and hopefully ( and I think he will ) get the job done in Iraq ....and I hope we never have to go back once its done.
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2003/03/07, 10:03 AM
I've wanted to raise this subject for a while now here-only i thought it a bit unsuitable for a health site... :)
See i think the problem is that you see everything from Americas point of view. Now i don't mean any offence or anything of that nature at all, but the arguments I've read here so far seem pretty superficial. Sure, Saddam Hussein is a cruel dictator and an unhumanly person, but is this a reason good enough to go to war?
Is it a reason to be responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of people, among those, innocent civilians?
Is it a reason to possibly cause an economic recession?
Is it a reason to to break up the already unstable Middle-east?
Saddam Hussein is a threat if he posseses nuclear and biological weapons, very true! A threat to the USA, a threat to Europe. No dougts there whatsoever. IF he posseses nuclear and biological weapons. That is why the USA want to attack, to disarm him.
But if the USA attack, don't you think the threat is much bigger? If he is believed to posess biological and nuclear weapons, won't he chuck them at you during War? To me it seems a damn lot more likely! And what about North Korea? What about Iran? They posess tons and tons more than the Iraq do, plain and public knowledge. The reasons for attacking them are even bigger. They're a much bigger threat. What if they become Ally's with Iraq?
Think about the whole Islam. Thats the main religion of roughly 40 countries. Will they turn their backs against America?
Think about the situation of the Allies of the USA. Germany, France, Turkey. Think about all the other countries in eastern Europe. We're talking waves of masses of refugees fleeing to them. The already bad situation in Germany (for example) will deteriate.
For heavens sake, think about the children and innocent people that'll become victims of this war. Think about the families that'll be torn apart. Them being thousands of miles away and living in totally different standards as us, doesn't mean it doesn't matter...
It is a damn difficult situation to deal with that man, Saddam Hussein, but i strongly say, and swear on it, that WAR IS NOT THE ANSWER. Please, as a civilised and honest person, just think about it again, more deeply, before you decide what is right.
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2003/03/07, 10:14 AM
I'm not against the war, but as Tony Blair said "It would be inhumane NOT to overthrow Saddam" so then where do we stop? Are the super powers that be gonna overthrow every leader they dislike? The UN wil never alow that and without UN backing, then attacking Iraq is like a terrorist act in itself.
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*My body only feels good when it burns!
*Little voice telling you to quit? Put your fingers in your ears!
*"Life shrinks or grows in proportion to one's courage"
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2003/03/07, 11:09 AM
Against
We are moving in the right direction with putting appropriate political pressure on Iraq to disarm, but god, the truth of the matter is that we have severe factions even here in the U.S. on whether or not to go to war with Iraq. We know that economically, it is not a good choice right now with the stock market tanking. What are investors going to do when we go to war with an already fledgling economy? And realistically, we don't have the money to wage war.
Give SH some more time, and don't let this split the world. That last part is the portion I'm most concerned about.
Nik
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2003/03/07, 11:53 AM
I am not only for war against Iraq, they need to definitely take this guy down for good. In someone like that, no matter how much he is willing to abide, which he has had more than enough opportunities, he always has one thing in mind at all times. Unfortunately for someone like that, there is never change, which is why, once again, we are dealing with this man. Bush needs to go forward with his plans and take Saddam down for good, to avoid future affects of not doing so at this time.
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Bettia.... When you feel like giving up, take it to the limit one more time!! You will SUCEED :-)
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2003/03/07, 12:16 PM
Speaking of the presidents speech last night, the most profuond line all should have gotten out of it was "what is the price of doing nothing?" You know, on a lighter note, if I was Saddam, and knowing I had billions(yes, billions) of dollars, and saw the most powerful country in the world amassing against me, I think I would just tell my fellow countrymen, you know what?? I think it is time to go on vacation for a while. See ya! Go to some island and live happily ever after in exile.
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/03/07, 12:43 PM
bb1fit: i agree. the price of doing nothing is immense. i wish he'd take a long vacation too. who knows, maybe we'll all get lucky and he will.
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2003/03/07, 01:30 PM
if it were only that simple. don't undermine him, hes not stupid. if he takes a vacation as you said, US-troops will arrest him the second they can reach their hands on him!
If you ask me, Bush's plans are very unrealistic. he wants to get rid of Saddam Hussein and introduce democracy to Iraq. In a perfect world maybe! Its not what the people their want, its not their belief.This war will only be the beginning of a long battle. soon, the whole Islam will be against the allied nations. the anti-american hate is growing there from day to day. Why? becoz we've been ruling over them for i don't know how long. we've been trying to change their religion and way of life, and they hate it. their religion emans everything to them. introduce democracy there? spare me, please! either Bush is narrow-minded, or I'm pessimistic.
To me, we should much more take a step to understand their culture. And then we'll see that we have nothing to look for in their territory. We have to just stop playing God.
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2003/03/07, 01:36 PM
I must say skinnyrobin, not sure where you're getting your intelligence information from but, the Iraqi people would be very happy to get rid of Hussein. That's not even including the Kurds who are a significant portion of the population. I'm not saying they want the US to put in a "puppet" gov't but, he is a dictator and barbarian. Intell reports dispute what you say, including UN reports. It would not be in the US's best interest to invade a country and remove a gov't that is well liked.
I understand your opinion and you have a right to it. Please don't speculate on topics you may not have the facts on.
DP
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2003/03/07, 02:42 PM
skinnyrobin: 1. we don't rule over them and never have. that's obvious 2. we don't try to change anyone's religion. thats silly. look how many different religions there are here. and we accept there right to be here and tolerate all of them, even the ones that wont let a woman worship in the mosque.
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2003/03/07, 03:06 PM
i'm not for or against war.
a lot of people think bush is a hot head and wants war. but most of us know that if he really wanted war, he would of gone for it by now. war is a last resort! i drove past the post office yesterday and saw 30-60 people holding signs saying "honk for peace" and "no war"..we all don't want war (at least most of us)..we want world peace but americans we should SUPPORT our troops. they are putting their lives on the line to save our freedom and trying to give freedom in anothers life.
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2003/03/07, 04:20 PM
here, here sweetdancer82. If I am going to stand on a block with a big sign, that will be it! That WE ARE SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS!
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Bettia.... When you feel like giving up, take it to the limit one more time!! You will SUCEED :-)
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2003/03/07, 04:41 PM
I am against war. All war. My mother is a survivor of WW2 she was in a camp, a place called Bergen-Belson, she was held as a political prisoner at the age of 9. She is one of the few left now that are still alive.
Any way my point is, if USA can put a man on the moon, bring him back etc etc, I believe, they can go get Saddam without a war. They did it to the animal in Libya, They are getting closer to bin ladin, I think they can drop a nice little peresent on Saddam, Dont you?
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/07, 07:18 PM
For anyone who is thinking of protesting our troops if we go to war with Iraq, read this carefully......
16 May, 1918
The U.S. Sedition Act
United States, Statutes at Large, Washington, D.C., 1918, Vol. XL, pp 553 ff. A portion of the amendment to Section 3 of the Espionage Act of June 15, 1917.SECTION 3.
Whoever, when the United States is at war, shall willfully make or convey false reports or false statements with intent to interfere with the operation or success of the military or naval forces of the United States, or to promote the success of its enemies, or shall willfully make or convey false reports, or false statements, . . . or incite insubordination, disloyalty, mutiny, or refusal of duty, in the military or naval forces of the United States, or shall willfully obstruct . . . the recruiting or enlistment service of the United States, or . . . shall willfully utter, print, write, or publish any disloyal, profane, scurrilous, or abusive language about the form of government of the United States, or the Constitution of the United States, or the military or naval forces of the United States . . . or shall willfully display the flag of any foreign enemy, or shall willfully . . . urge, incite, or advocate any curtailment of production . . . or advocate, teach, defend, or suggest the doing of any of the acts or things in this section enumerated and whoever shall by word or act support or favor the cause of any country with which the United States is at war or by word or act oppose the cause of the United States therein, shall be punished by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than twenty years, or both....
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/03/07, 08:48 PM
Well, this is a big subject for me as a Marine. So I am definitely with dpking44. I do as I am ordered to do. However, my opinion on the matter is that I am all for the war. It is true that I will not go as I am a drill instructor, however a lot of friends are over there and some I am sure are on the way. We joined the military to protect our country and stand for our freedom. The military members that say they signed up for a free ride to college shouldn't be here. They are not who I want to be in a foxhole with. Yes, it is a trajedy to lose so many lives, but that is how our country came to be. Knowing that I have a little girl as most military members do. It is sad to have someone lost at war, but if you think about it. I would rather my daughter say that my mom died defending her beliefs and country so that I could remain free, rather than my mom got killed by someone on a drug attack, shooting, drinking or whatever the case might be (as we loose a lot of our people). Just my opinion, I wouldn't want to go to war, but would because this is the life that I chose and will stand behind President Bush 100% (and in this country, we can oppose what our leader says without fearing for our life, because we are free). Those that are not in the military don't understand a lot of what we do, yet have so much to comment on. So yes, I am for this war and honestly believe that we need it. Thank you Bush for not backing down.
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Lisa
Just laugh about it....
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2003/03/07, 10:45 PM
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Quoting from roni0906:
So yes, I am for this war and honestly believe that we need it. Thank you Bush for not backing down.
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AMEN!!! To all those in the military: I salute you. My hat is off to all men and women that defend this country and make the world better, safer, and more free for everyone else.
After watching the UN Security Council meeting this afternoon, it appears that war in inevitable anyway; Some say as soon as next week, some claim within the next 2-3 weeks. Either way, it'll be sooner than later.
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--JBennett
"I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!"
"Pain is only weakness leaving the body."
"Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
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2003/03/08, 02:27 AM
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Quoting from dancenyshopper:
i was against, but after listening to bush last night now im undecided. Quote from last nights speech i really liked:"We love freedom, and we're not changing!" philia2; you live in france right? does everyone really hate our guts over there? just curious....
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I don't think that anybody really knows WHAT they think or should think over here.....
It's true that for the French, the Americans are right now the "les grands mechants" (the big evil ones) but I'm not sure that everybody really understands or has cared to get all the needed informations.
Also, we are two completely different cultures and this often turns into envy, jalousy or simply people feeling completely incomprehensible towards each other.
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- Nina :o) Les Victoires éternelles sont celles du coeur.
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2003/03/08, 12:34 PM
I say no for the reason that I am almost 18 and personally if they reinstate the draft I dont want to give up my college education to fight. And also if other countries have the same intelligence that we dont how come no one else wants to join on out side??? Going at it with no support is not the answer.
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2003/03/08, 03:25 PM
2 things lewdog:
1. Don't worry. They will not reinstate the draft. Not for this war, anyway.
2. More countries are actually supporting us than not supporting us. We hear about France, Russia, Germany, etc, opposing war on the news all the time, but never about those who support it (other than Great Britain). This is due to the one-sidedness (if that's a word) of the media - we don't get all of the facts.
Hey, maybe if we liberate Iraq we'll have some new Iraqi FT members! Wouldn't that be interesting...
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--JBennett
"I've up-ed my intensity.... now up yours!"
"Pain is only weakness leaving the body."
"Never think of how weak you are; think of how strong you're going to be."
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2003/03/08, 05:26 PM
still against it do to a fact that baffles me. If the US is so sure that Saddam has all these biological and chemical weapons and they say they have proof...how come are intelliegence CAN'T lead the inspectors to all these things he has??? and if we have to same intelligence that other countries have how come they dont feel the need to attack??? Counties may say they support us but what allies are really going to step in and give their lives for this cause??
How sure are we they wont reinstate the draft?? Sen. Rengel was pushing a bill to congress to reinstate it. Americans look at this as an easy war and yes it maybe but do we remember Vietnam.
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2003/03/08, 07:05 PM
dpking: will you have to go to war, being in the military?
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2003/03/08, 08:09 PM
JBenntet is absolutely correct. The media lets you hear what they want. Just like Vietnam and Jane Fonda. She told a lot of untrue things about what our military was doing and not anything bad of what they were doing. This turned the American people to snub our boys when they came home. It really upsets me. I know a few people (to incluse my father-in-law) that went to Vietnam and it just bugs me that our own people can't stand up for us. Or the fact that they said the Marines in Cuba were abusing our POW's. That was not the case and in fact Charlie Daniels went over their to do a concert and saw how they were being treated. Most of them never had so much food to eat or even the freedom that they were receiving. I was stationed over there myself in 96-97 and the migrants we had loved the Marines because of the way we treated them. So now back to the media, they only give you what THEY want and not the facts.
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Lisa
Just laugh about it....
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2003/03/08, 09:40 PM
If the US is so sure that Saddam has all these biological and chemical weapons and they say they have proof...how come are intelliegence CAN'T lead the inspectors to all these things he has??? **** Actually, they have. This is how the inspectors found the dozen or so chemical warheads, the nerve gas literature, as well as the inspectors being able to state those other missles are able to travel too far.
Counties may say they support us but what allies are really going to step in and give their lives for this cause?? **** Unfortunately, anytime there is some sort of world-wide decision in the UN, it is the United States that carries out the majority of it and finances it. A "recent" historical example was the first Persian Gulf War: with the UN resolution, the United States made up 85% of the military force and the cash in that region. I believe that the main reason we don't hear about our allies' "support" is because, except for Britain, Spain, and Bulgaria, the rest of them are not on the Security Council. However, when it comes to something like NATO, 15 of the 18 countries in it support this action. The support is actually out there, for example: Austrailia has sent special ops platoons; Denmark has sent intellegence; Czech and Slovic soldiers patrol the Kuwait border with bio and chemical weapons detection and containment/clean up equipment. Even the Arab League itself is split up into 3 different factions.
Americans look at this as an easy war and yes it maybe but do we remember Vietnam. **** Not all of us (myself included) actually 'remember' Vietnam (LOL!), but the biggest differences are: 1. We have definitive goals going in and coming out; 2. Our troops can actually shoot at the enemy this time!
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Michael
"Trample the weak; hurdle the dead!"
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2003/03/08, 10:19 PM
For those with some doubts or biased by the liberal media, you may find this interesting...
CIA's Woolsey Tells Court: Iraq Involved in 9/11
Former CIA Director James Woolsey offered bombshell testimony this week in a lawsuit brought by the families of World Trade Center victims that implicates Saddam Hussein in the 9/11 attacks.
The one-time Clinton administration intelligence chief described what he said was a conspiracy between al-Qaeda and Baghdad. As evidence he offered accounts from Iraqi defectors who have described a Boeing 707 jet parked on the ground at the terrorist training camp Salman Pak. The plane, the eyewitnesses insist, was used as a hijacking school prior to 9/11.
Since 1995 Saddam's most elite terror operatives had allegedly used Salman Pak to train al-Qaeda recruits to overcome U.S. flight crews using methods employed on 9/11, according to London's Observer newspaper. In November 2001, dozens of other reports, including several in the New York Times, covered news of Saddam's Salman Pak hijacking school based on the defectors' accounts.
"I believe it is definitely more likely than not that some degree of common knowledge between was involved here," Woolsey told a Manhattan federal court on Monday, according to the New York Daily News.
He compared the relationship between Baghdad and Osama bin Laden's terror network to two Mafia families "who hate each other, kill each other from time to time but are still capable of working together against a common enemy," according to testimony quoted by the Associated Press.
At the very least, Saddam Hussein is guilty of aiding and abetting the activities of al-Qaeda, Woolsey contended.
He also offered evidence suggesting that Baghdad had prior knowledge of the 9/11 attacks.
A July 21, 2001, article in an Egyptian newspaper, headlined "America, an Obsession with Osama bin Laden," indicated that Baghdad knew what was coming less than months later, the former U.S. intelligence chief told the court. The report, written by an Iraqi, predicted bin Laden would target both New York City and the Pentagon.
Woolsey noted a line in the story warning that bin Laden would "strike America on the arm that is already hurting," explaining that the phrase was likely a reference to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center.
No Iraqi journalist would write such a report without his government's knowledge and approval, Woolsey testified.
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Failing to plan is like planning to fail!
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2003/03/09, 12:51 AM
I agree with skinnyrobin on that post war consequences need to be studied further.
I have concerns for the people of Iraq the most who have no idea what they are facing..
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2003/03/09, 09:20 AM
Sorry this is a intenese subject for me. I just got this emailed to me. Hope it doesn't offend anyone, but I thought it was good for this post.
MILITARY RULES FOR NON-MILITARY PERSONNEL
The current state up in arms and excited to join the military. For those of you who can't join, you can lend a hand. The military suggests these few areas in which your assistance will be helpful:
1. The next time you see an adult talking during the playing of the National Anthem...
Kick their ass
2. When you witness first hand someone burning the American Flag in protest...
Kick their ass
3. Regardless of the rank they held when they served, pay the highest amount of respect to all veterans. If you see anyone doing otherwise, quietly pull them aside and explain how Veteran fought for the very freedom they bask in every second. Enlighten them on many sacrifices these Veterans made to make this nation great. Then hold them down while a Disabled Veteran...
Kicks their ass
4. If you were never in the military, DO NOT pretend that you were. Wearing battle dress uniforms, telling others you used to be "Special forces" and collecting GI JOE memorabilia, might have been okay if you were still seven. Now it will only make you look stupid and get...
Your ass kicked
5. If you witness someone calling enlisted Marine "Sir," stand back...
A marine will kick their ass
6. Next time you come across an Air Force Member, do not ask them, "Do you fly a jet?"
Not everyone in the air force is a pilot. Such ignorance deserves...
An ass kicking (Children are exempt)
7. Roseanne Barr's singing on the National Anthem is not a blooper. It was a disgrace and disrespectful. Laugh, and sooner or later...
Your ass will get kicked
8. Next time Old Glory prances by during a parade, get on your damn feet and pay homage to her by placing your hand over your heart. Quickly thank the military member or veteran lucky enough to be carrying her... of course failure to do either of those could earn you a...
Severe ass kicking
9. What Jane Fonda did during the Vietnam War makes her an enemy. The proper word to describe her is "Traitor." Just mention her for "Woman of the Year" and get...
Your ass kicked
10. Don't try to discuss politics with a military member or veteran. We are Americans and we bleed the same regardless of our party affiliation. Our chain of Command is to include our Commander in Chief. THE President (for those of you who didn't know) is our CIC regardless of political party. We have no inside track on what happens inside those big important buildings
where representatives meet. All we know is that when those civilian representatives screw up the situation, they call upon the military to straighten it out. The military member might direct you to Oliver North...
I can see him kicking your ass already.
11. "Your mama wears combat boots" never made sense to me... stop saying it!
If she did, she would most likely be a vet and probably...
Kick your ass!
12. Bin Laden and the Taliban are not communists, so stop saying, "Lets go kill those Commies!" And stop asking us where he is! Crystal balls are not standard issue in the military. That reminds me... if you see any one calling those damn psychic phone numbers; let me know...
So I can go kick their ass.
13. Bus Driver, Jar Head, grunt, swabbie, squid, turd, etc., are terms of endearment we use describing each other. Unless you are a service member or a vet, you have not earned the right to use them and could...
Get your ass kicked.
14. Last but not least, whether or not you become a member of the military, support our troops and their families. Every Thanksgiving, and Religious Holiday that you enjoy with family and friends, please remember that there are, literally, thousands of troops overseas wishing they could be with their families
Don't ask God to make you brilliant, instead ask him how to show the world the brilliance with in you.
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Lisa
Just laugh about it....
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2003/03/09, 11:47 AM
I like that Lisa, It's so true, but yet funny!
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/09, 01:16 PM
I am not for or against. However, i think that Bush is trying to finish something that his dad didn't do when he was in office. Saddam got away once and they shouldn't let it happen again. However, i don't think that it is right to go and bomb random cities. Going and killing people who are not even a part of this war. Even though they did do it to us, if we do it back to them, then they will do it back to us and on and on and it will never end. Why can't everyone just get along and have peace in the world. I will never be able to understand that.
*Jessica*
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2003/03/09, 05:27 PM
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Quoting from dancenyshopper:
skinnyrobin: 1. we don't rule over them and never have. that's obvious 2. we don't try to change anyone's religion. thats silly. look how many different religions there are here. and we accept there right to be here and tolerate all of them, even the ones that wont let a woman worship in the mosque.
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Agree there to a point skinnyrobin. The US does accept immigrants from all over. Anbd to a point the US allows them to keep their culture. But as my ethics teacher has pointed out .. the US (im not sure what its called) but They use a sort of assimilation theory when dealing with immigrants. I mean the US tries to make the immigrants take on the US way of living, allowing for them to keep a bit of their old culture, but tries to instill their culture into the immigrants own.
Just my Opinion! No offense meant to anyone as I Hold great respect to the US.
Mark
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He Who controls the past,
commands the future.
He who commands the future,
conquers the past.
- Kane
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2003/03/10, 09:12 AM
I may or may not go over there skinnyrobin. It depends on the needs over there. I read with great interest everyone's view on the situation. Many good points. I personally think war is inevitable. On that point, I hope we can go in and do the job and get out with minimal casualities. I believe the military will take great pains in avoiding civilian casualites. We're paid to do a job, we'll do it at the best of our abilities. As an officer, we receive a lot of training in leadership and ethics. It's not the Iraqis we seek, it's a regime.
Keep up the dialogue folks.
DP
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2003/03/10, 01:35 PM
ok. well i'll stick to my no-war-attitude, but i'll naturally be fully supporting the US-troops once they invade Iraq.
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Quoting from dpking44:
I believe the military will take great pains in avoiding civilian casualites. We're paid to do a job, we'll do it at the best of our abilities.
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I never dougted that. But there are many situations where you can't avoid civilian casualties, and thats why my strong 'no no' to war.
I'll wish you good luck when the times ripe if you go. :)
you'll tell us won't you?
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2003/03/10, 02:56 PM
Thanks skinny.
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2003/03/10, 05:41 PM
By all means i support the troops when they attack Iraq and I honor them knowing that they are serving their country. But do I think we should be in that situation...NO
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2003/03/11, 12:24 PM
part of the reason why i WAS against this war(i now support it) was because i feel like we should be spending a whole lot more of our money on homeland security, protecting our own people first, then clean up the luanatics later. i mean, it seems like we have one guy who's heading up homeland, with a minimal budget. we will spend BILLIONS on this war, and the gov't is telling its people to buy plastic sheeting and duct tape to protect ourselves (which wouldn't do a darn thing anyways!) i'm also not crazy about the fact that alot of our guys are now half a world away from home, and not protecting us. i would feel much safer knowing that they are close by. i hope we're not stretched too thin. anywho, im boycotting french products. buy FREEDOM FRIES instead! (not that i eat fried foods, that's not on my nutrition program!)lol.
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2003/03/19, 06:09 PM
Well it looks as if it is going to happen. Please pray for all the men and women over there. I know I will. I have some friends over there and just hope they all come back save when we finally catch Sadam.
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Lisa
Just laugh about it....
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2003/03/19, 11:05 PM
Skinnyrobin, where are you from? I ask just so I can better understand your views.
Both of my grandfathers were in WW2 and my dad was in Vietnam. I think all of them would disagree with the war. So, I do understand and repsect the views of those who do not agree with the war.
I understand that many nations hate us because they view us as hypocrites, thieves, and terrorists ourselves. Here is what other cultures see when they look at U.S. History:
 1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.
 1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.
 1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.
 September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.
 1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.
 1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die
 1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.
 1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.
 1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.
 1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.
 1998: Clinton bombs "weapons factory" in Sudan. Factory turns out to be making aspirin.
 2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".
 September 11, 2001: Osama Bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.
I am by no means saying this is all accurate. And of course this does not represent the U.S. side of the story. This is just a list of the types of facts that those who hate Americans use when pointing out why we are hated. Any culture in the world is only as tolerant, knowledgeable, faithful, patriotic, sympathetic, and understanding as their individual government and media gives them the ability to be. In the past 50 years, most US governments have helped or initiated “things”, which everyone either was ignorant of or thought to be "good" at that time, and which are now seen as war crimes, mass murder, or support of terrorism and dictatorship by those outside of the US.
Many believe that by doing what we are now in Iraq, we are accomplishing Osama’s goal (that he could never accomplish) of uniting the Muslim world as a whole against Jews, Christians, Americans, and the UK. They say that such a war would make the Middle East more repressive and unstable than it is today. “Experts” say that, regardless of our reasons and objectives, most Arabs and Muslims will see the war as American imperialism. Many predict that change in the region will result in the victory of radical Islamist groups, like happened in Algerian some 10 years ago. Do I believe that? I don’t know. I don’t have enough information and facts to make a decision one way or the other.
What I do believe is this entire world situation is sad. I don’t like that this has come to war. I hate war. It means that people will die. And that is very disheartening to me. From the beginning of time there has been war. It is nothing new. Uncountable people have died in these wars. It is a part of human nature. We are not capable of living on the same planet together without war. If we were, we would have, at some point in the thousands of years of civilization, decided to no longer have war. It is going to happen, regardless of whether some agree or disagree. It is a fact of life.
Bush is at least up front with his people about what he is doing. Unlike his predecessor who made the order to bomb Iraq without letting the public know, Bush at least has the honesty to tell us what he is doing. In all, Clinton was responsible for the bombing, and deaths of innocent people in three different countries. They were Iraq, Sudan, and Serbia. Where was the liberal media then? Where were the protestors? Our current leaders believe they have proof that we need to defend ourselves where Iraq is concerned. With all of the spies, special forces, and other secretive operatives throughout the world, there is a huge amount of information that we, the public, are not aware of. A nation practices independence by acting for its own defense regardless of opposition or world opinion. Independence in foreign policy means asking no one, neither allies nor enemies, for permission to conduct a war of self-defense. We, as a people, elected our President to run our country to the best of his ability. We, as a people, must have faith that he has good reason to do what he is doing. We, as a people, must have strength to persevere. We, as a people, must have hope that all will turn out as best it can under the circumstances. We MUST support our men and women who are there now fighting for our own future safety.
This is why I support the war.
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~Jennifer
http://www.gwindalyn.com
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2003/03/20, 06:20 PM
Well said Jennifer
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/20, 09:05 PM
Nicely put Jennifer!
I just like to put my 2 cents in. As You all know by my profile and another msg i put in another of the boards, I am Canadian.
I know Canada right now isn't involved with this war. And to a point i somewhat agree we shouldn't be a part of it. But I can't help think that Canada and the US are practicaly like brothers so to speak. We have been allies for a very long time. I don't want Canada to be a part of any war or the US. But since the war is here I think that maybe Canada should have stepped in and got involved. I mean Untill now I could say with atleast some form of certainty that The US would have came to Canada's aid if the war was happening to Canada. Maybe not anymore since Canada hasn't jumped to the US's aid. Anyways Just letting you Americans know that even though Canada isn't a part of the war that there are some Canadians that feel that Canada should be there in support of the US.
Perrin
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"There is no age limit on transforming your life. No rule that says that after a certain age you are simply the way you are and that's it. Change not only is possible at any time but is essential."
Rick Pitino
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2003/03/20, 09:21 PM
I am with you Perrin. But I think the real reason Canada is not over there in Iraq is because we still have alot of troops and air force over in Afghanastan. I don't think we have the best of hardware to send over to Iraq either. I believe if we had the availability and modern equipment we would be there. Perhaps Canada will go in there to help re-build or as peace keepers.
As a canadian, I just want to let you all know that I think and prey for all the fathers, mothers, son's and daughters, that are fighting this war.
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Peace on earth
Ivan Montreal Canada
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2003/03/21, 05:44 PM
Coming from a Military family, I am for it! When we first went to war with them, I wanted him out(I was like 9 years old). I want him out more than ever
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Pain is weakness leaving the body
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2003/03/23, 11:45 PM
Wow it is so great to have a ally like Britain!! I just hope we get can get this over , quickly,The 35 other countries that see the importance of this war i also commend. All i can say is Support OUR TROOPS!!!!!!
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