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2004/04/20, 07:59 AM
I hope the program is as rewarding for you as it is for me jplatz.
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My gym dues are not paid with money.
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2004/04/26, 08:40 PM
After two weeks off for various reasons, I returned to the gym and did the legs and back days. Unfortunately I didn't put the chest day in between, so I'll be adding another rest day in between shoulders and chest.
I have to say though that for the first time ever, my back was sore from deadlifting. Thanks to Gator and Mutt's great article I finally used a proper stance and grip. Even at 60% of my max, I really felt it. Can't say as I was too happy with not being able to move much, but I know it's worth it in the end. Thanks again guys!:big_smile:
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Pain is but a threshold to greater strength.
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2004/05/27, 01:21 PM
The Deadlift is not a Dead Lift
by Mark Philippi, from Peakhealth.com
The deadlift is an exercise that has unfairly received a bad reputation with the general population. Very seldom does someone ask you how much you can deadlift. It is rarely taught to clientele in the health club setting and most gyms seldom have a platform area designated for deadlifting. The deadlift has been performed mostly by powerlifters, hard core garage lifters, and bodybuilders looking to venture into the strength arena.
The average public perceives deadlifting with similar false stigmas to that of squatting. Squatting will hurt my knees; deadlifting will hurt my back. Both myths have taken hold due to bad technique and poor form when performing the lifts. There are few poor lifts, only poor lifting technique.
In reality, most everyone who is interested in weight training should perform the deadlift. A weak back makes us more susceptible to injury on a daily basis. How many times do you bend to lift objects during the average day? Most spinal specialists would agree that if you examined the backs of middle aged Americans, you would probably find an accumulation of spinal problems through the course of one's lifetime. I would also venture to say a large percentage of workman's compensation claims are filed because of back injuries. Prevention lies in strengthening the back. The deadlift is the best exercise for total back strengthening; its focus is the body's core - legs, hips, and back. It is also the best test of total body absolute strength, much more than the bench press or squat. The deadlift is also one of the best exercises to add total body mass. Individuals wanting to add mass should seriously consider about adding the deadlift to your workout program. The deadlift "thickens" the body.
There is more to performing the deadlift than walking up to a bar and picking it up. It is not as technically complex as a clean or snatch, and every bit as problematic as the squat. There are two standard styles of deadlifting: conventional - feet narrower than shoulders, and sumo - feet wider than shoulders. The style that fits most people comfortably is the conventional. It also has more carryover to daily activity.
Positioning
Let's start with foot placement. Feet should be placed at armpit width with toes slightly out. Shins will be placed next to the bar. The majority of the bodyweight should begin on the balls of the feet with a transfer to the heels through lockout. The hands should grasp the bar with an over / under grip with the arms outside the knees. The legs should be bent to the "power position"; approximately 60 degrees from vertical with the hips lower than the shoulders. Your head should be looking forward in a neutral position. The chest should be forward, not down. Shoulders should be squeezed tightly back and positioned directly over the bar. Do not round the shoulders, as more force will then be applied to the back.
Beginning the Lift
The deadlift when executed correctly is a push from the floor followed by a pull to a locked out position. The force distribution on the feet places the force on the balls of the feet during the initial push off the ground followed by a transfer to the heel as the bar passes the knees and into lockout. As the bar breaks the ground, the hips must be in the power position although before starting the lift, they can be anywhere that is comfortable. This means there must be a focus on bending the knees and using the legs to drive. Do not let the legs lock out prematurely thereby placing more strain on the back. Always keep the chest above the hips. The bar should just brush the shins when leaving the ground. Try to accelerate the bar from the ground. The faster the bar moves past the knees, the easier the lockout. As the bar passes the knees, drive the head back helping your hip lockout as well. Do not hyperextend the back at lockout. Upon completion of the deadlift, return the bar to the platform slowly and under control. Do not slam the weights off the ground. Be in good position to start another rep, maintaining tightness throughout the body. Pause before starting the next rep, allow the reps to be momentum free. Do not bounce off of the ground.
Routines
The deadlift can be used to develop work capacity, build mass, or increase strength. I believe for most people, keeping routines basic is the best way. I believe heavy deadlifting once per week is sufficient for developing strength. If a second workout per week is desired, it should be kept lighter, concentrating on form, technique, and speed of movement.
Initially it is important to develop work capacity. This will facilitate quicker recovery in your workouts. This means utilizing 3 to 5 sets of 8 to 10 reps, weights approximately 50 to 65% of 1rm, and relatively short rest periods of no more than 90 to 120 seconds. If technique breaks down during a set, stop and add another set; ie. 4 sets of 10 reps = 40 total reps, go to 5 sets of 8 reps. The work output remains the same.
After work capacity is developed, strength and mass development can take place. I suggest using 3 to 5 sets of 3 to 6 reps, weights approximately 70 to 90% of 1rm. Rest periods can be longer, between 2 and 4 minutes, to facilitate further recovery. Again, if technique breaks down; shorten the set and add another to the workout.
If pure absolute strength is desired, you can add a peaking phase to your routine. Use 1 to 3 sets of singles and doubles between 90 to 100% of 1rm with full recovery between sets. For recovery and overtraining purposes, limit peaking phase to 3 to 4 weeks consecutively.
In the classical periodization model, as the intensity increases, the total work volume decreases. Therefore, volume or "down" sets can be added to keep work capacity high and maintain the training effect.
SAMPLE DEADLIFT PROGRAM
The following is a 10 week sample deadlift program that takes in effect all aspects of the previously mentioned categories: work capacity, strength / mass building, and absolute strength development. It also utilizes drop sets to increase the volume of the workout to keep the training effect. The routine does not include warm up sets.
Week Phase Sets/Reps Rest Interval
1 Work Capacity 10*3 Sets @ 55% 60 Seconds
2 Work Capacity 8*3 Sets @ 65% 60 Seconds
3 Strength Phase 5*3 Sets @ 75% 3 minutes
4 Strength Phase 5*3 Sets @ 80% 3 minutes
5 Strength Phase 3*3 Sets @ 83%, 8*1 Set @ 70% 3 minutes
6 Strenght Phase 3*3 Sets @ 86%, 8*1 Set @ 70% 3 minutes
7 Strength Phase 2*3 Sets @ 89%, 6*1 Set @ 75% 3 minutes
8 Peaking Phase 2*2 Sets @ 92%, 6*1 Set @ 75% 3-5 minutes
9 Peaking Phase 2*2 Sets @ 95%, 5*1 Set @ 80% 3-5 minutes
10 Peaking Phase 1*2 Sets @ 98%, 5*1 Set @ 80% 3-5 minutes
11 Peaking Phase Test or Competition
In closing, the deadlift should be an important part of everyone's workout regimen; it is not just for powerlifters. It strengthens the core of the body; that to which all other parts are connected. Therefore, it is useless to have a big chest and huge pipes if you have a weak back giving you trouble. If properly performed the deadlift is a very safe and effective way to build work capacity, strength and mass. I would recommend that anyone interested in increasing total body strength add the deadlift to his or her workout.
About the Author:
Mark Philippi, CSCS is currently the head strength coach at the University of Nevada Las Vegas. In addition to working as a strength coach, Mark is also a competing world-class athlete, ranking in the top ten in the World’s Strongest Man competition series and a former powerlifting World Champion.
Return to Nutrition and Weightlifting Page
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2004/05/31, 10:38 AM
bump
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2004/06/01, 01:31 PM
Excellent article by Mark Philippi.
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2004/06/01, 01:44 PM
There is a a picture in the Exercise Resources section of this site...
t
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Quoting from godlike:
How do you do a deadlift could someone gimme link to somewhere that shows you how to do it ,
i think i know how
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Tim
I count him braver who overcomes his desires than him who conquers his enemies, for the hardest victory is over self.
Aristotle
You have the power to change a life right in your own hands. - Paul Brandt
GO FLAMES
TimDay@freetrainers.com
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2004/06/06, 03:28 PM
I was just wondering , but is it true that when you deadlift over time that performing that exercise expands your waist and thickens your ab muscles??
The thickening of the ab muscles I think i have seen on myself and thats good , but I wouldn't want my waist to get too big. Can that shrink??
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2004/06/08, 09:31 AM
I just got back into deadlifting after about 3 months away from it. I did 4 good sets of moderate (not too heavy) weight, finished my workout, went home, and immediately puked my guts out. It was beautiful.
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OSU Law Rugby....specializing in personal injury and pain & suffering.
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2004/06/08, 11:28 AM
Sounds like you did them right. LOL
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2004/06/15, 11:12 AM
Can someone answer my question.
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2004/06/15, 10:02 PM
It probably does. But, as a football player, wouldn't you want to have a strong trunk?
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2004/06/17, 03:59 AM
yeah but what happens when i stop playing football and get older?????
I always try and increase the strength of my core. But my waist seems to be kind of big as it is. I didn't really think about that though.
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2004/06/17, 10:19 AM
You make certain sacrifices when you play football. Your trunk isn't going to get fat just thick. If you eat crap because you are more hungry as a result of deadlifting then yes you will not look good. I suggest you figure out now if you really want to play college football or not because the big O-lineman you will face will not be worried about their big trunks.
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2004/07/09, 11:16 PM
GOWAR- maybe its time to determine what you really want out of lifting. If your looking for better performance, then don't complain. If you care about asthetics, then try the bodybuilding forum, but don't expect to be an all-star football player
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Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even.
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2004/07/12, 10:05 AM
wrestler is that your original idea, or did u just rephrase gatormades comment?
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2004/07/13, 12:34 AM
Dude! What do you want us to tell you!!! Do you want to play university football or be a racehorse jockey? Life is full of decisions.
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2004/07/14, 10:55 PM
sorry if I sounded repetitive, but thats one thing i cant stand: people saying that they are concerned with performance when they are really concerned with asthetics.
For example, the guy in the gym always telling you not to do sidebends because they make ur trunk bigger and that causes the rest of your upper body to look smaller. If that was what I cared about, maybe.
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Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even.
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2004/07/15, 12:37 AM
AMEN BRO!!! This forum is about strength traing and powerlifting. There are other forums on this site that are geared towards bodybuilding, if that is what your interested in.
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Quoting from wrestler125:
thats one thing i cant stand: people saying that they are concerned with performance when they are really concerned with asthetics.
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2004/07/25, 01:49 PM
Gatormade,good call on the mistakes list about keeping the bar too close to the shins.That is one I'm guilty of!
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There is nothing better in life than to crush one\'s enemies,drive them before you,and hear the lamentation of their women!
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2004/10/07, 10:12 AM
The above 'null' post was NOT mine (for once!).
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2004/10/08, 07:10 PM
People! These lifts make me feel like a real whimp. I have been doing this program for I would say a year or so having to stop for injuries but I just now got to my former pr on the deadlift of 300lbs x 8. Should I try a heavier weight at only two or so reps? I do love the lift and the Squat. I have grown now that I think of it. I use to have say 151/2 inch arms and now sit at 18. I'm rambling on now but doing a couple lifts for part of my workout, that a good idea? Sounds solid, you can do it with the squat as well or any other exercise for that matter right.
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2004/10/08, 07:42 PM
Please post in a well thought out manner and then and only then will we answer your post.
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2004/10/11, 05:56 AM
ace-dragoon....Try going heavier to around 3-5 reps...and see where you are...Then try to stay at around 4-6 reps...doing 2-3 working sets of deadlifts..Every month or so try doing 1-2 reps ie maxing out...I do back about once every 2 weeks and I try to go very heavy and max out no matter what my rep range, especially in deadlifts. I also do romanian deadlifts if the reps go beyond 1. I go high-rep fairly rarely and only as my last set to finish off my lower back.. My routine usually looks like fairly light weight-12 reps, nice smooth quick reps of romanian deadlifts...then I either go to max 1 rep deadlift...An important thing I do is rest a long time between sets..I sometimes rest 30 minutes...then I move to maybe 4-6 reps romanian deadlifts and then after resting 10-15 min maybe do another set of 6-12 reps..keep in mind that I max out on every single set..I go to the point I fail/need to puke...esp on high rep sets...I do 3 exercises usually deadlifts/romanian deadlifts, pulldowns, and T-Rows. Been working like a charm...I don't have time to work out very often..So I implement powerlifting principles...I got some(inspiration) of the concepts of a canadian powerlifter who trained just ocne every 2 weeks and did 2 reps(1rep 50%, 1 rep 100%)of 8 compound exercises..SO I end up training about once a week...and do a full body split once a month..I know this sounds weird/crazy...And I would work out maybe twice as often if I had the time...but it works for me..I gained 220lb in a little over a year in deadlift....Also if you got a lower back machine, try to use it...I was able to gain like 150lb with it(I used to have crappy form so I gave up deadlifting, and when I came back I was amazed at results using the machine, and now I perfect the form so that's almost 400 pounds of total gain)....I hope you get something useful out of my ramblings heh.... So in summary...keep reps low...rest at least 5 minutes between heavy sets...go to failure on all sets no matter the rep range..and give urself lots of rest between workouts.. :)
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2004/10/11, 07:37 PM
To my menace 3000 friend, thank you for responding to my statement-question. I tried low reps the other day and went from 335x8 to 355 x 4 to 375 x 3 and finished it with 400 x 1. That last one really did a number on me as it would have been real easy to lose, I'm on free weights, but I felt good about it. Anyway what are romanian deadlifts my friend?
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2004/10/12, 01:23 AM
hey how's it going, Since I have got into college, they do not have any trap bars for me to do deadlifts and my form with a straight bar is not perfect and puts to much strain on my back, so I was wondering if I do straight leg deadlifts will it have the same or close to the same effects as doing romanian deadlifts, will it still help expand my waist and give me a nice strong trunk???
Thanks,
Josh
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2004/10/12, 04:36 AM
Ace_dragoon Romanian deadlifts is where you lower the bar to your ankles or as low as you can...without touching the floor....I use a somewhat wierd form...I use a stiff legged deadlift form for my romanian deadlifts...It's like somewhere in between...My knees stay fairly fixed, and move just a bit..But I have a weird form, where I use a lot mroe of my lower back than hamstrings and legs than standard form...I seen people get down very low and push up with butt/legs and then straigthen out back in the end..I push up with my back and then my hamstrings kick in about midway and I finish straightening out my back in the last part...Also if you notice that your grip is outpaced by your back..try to use straps...I know it's a compromise, but if you are not competitive deadlifter it will help you a lot...
Gowar...No your waist will depend more on your diet..I am 6'0 205 6-7% fat and 32 waist...So from personal experience it does not mess up your waist.. Romanian deadlifts I think put even mroe pressure than deadlifts on lower back than regular deadlifts...SO be careful if you got any back trouble...One time I maxed out...getting the bar off the ground and collapsed before straightening out, with sharp pain..I couldn't sit, lay, or stand for next day or two...but bright part is that after that, it went away...so I never had any serious back trouble(knock on wood heh)...In fact my back seems to respond to this crazy maxing out...and just grows stronger because I leave plenty of rest before sets and between workouts...If oyu are not willing to go as heavy(or simply cannot for medical reasons), then try to do 8-12 reps with less weight..which will definately relieve some pain...But then you will need to do 4 working sets, resting a couple minutes before sets and do the workout once a week...Also try using lower back machine...it will be of great value...try to go as hard as possible with it...For form..as a helpful suggestion...stick out ur chest as far as possible...notice how ur lower back has a nice curve instead of slouched over look as some people do...well that's how it needs to be throughout every single rep....so if it helps and it's easier instead of focusing on keep lower back curved...then try to focus on keeping chest out as much as possible(as far as possible)...hope that helps..But let me emphasize if you got any serious pain in your lower back...you can make it worse so make sure you get it checked out...
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2004/10/12, 07:22 AM
Heavy weight lifting will give you a big trunk too. Your trunk supports everything you do. If you have a weak trunk then you will be a weak squatter and deadlifter.
Romanian Deadlifts:
Pick a bar up with a shoulder width apart grip. You can use an alternating deadlift grip or a clean grip. (depends on what you are training for)
Bend your knees slightly and keep them in that position. Now push your butt back while keeping the lower back flat until your hamstrings are telling you to come up. If you do this correctly you might not get any deeper than mid-shin. Going to the ankles will promote a rounded off lower back and injury. Everyone is different on this exercise. Your depth will depend on how flexible you are too.
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2004/10/14, 02:57 PM
I injured my hip a few months back and have been grinding through the pain. I have taken some time off to let it heal and now am back to finally reach my 750 dl. I will be there soon... ;)
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2004/10/15, 10:06 PM
I stretch atleast once everyday, if i have time I may stretch up to 3 times a day. I am very flexible. Remember I have been training for football.
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2004/10/27, 07:18 PM
I was clued into doing deadlifts and man what a difference. I have been doing them almost the entire time ive been cutting this fat off (74 lbs gone now) and my strength shot up. I started off doing 245 x 6 and that's all I could do. The most I've pulled was 425 x 1. I lost a little strength when I changed my routine around, found out something else didn't work for me LOL. Now I'm back to doing my old routine and my strength is coming back. I can get 345 x 3x5 right now.
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2004/11/10, 04:22 PM
RNC 4 days a week cardio is not specific enough. The intensity is important. Generally you can do well on a 3 day a week weight training and 2-3 day cardio...on different days...I assume you jog/run for 30 min-60 min each session...if you do then 2-3 days should be enough...doing compound lifts will your whole body stronger...you get the highest natural testosterone boost post-squats/deadlifts in ur body which helps you get lean.....deadlifts as one of the main compound lifts trains you core muscles...SO yes they make your abs very very strong...after a while you can notice siginificant strength increases/muscle improvements in your abs w/o ever doing ab work outs...although you still should exercise your abs 1-3 times a week...
also a big part should be change in your diet...you can lift/do cardio and actually gain weight/fat....you need to keep your diet in check....no junk food, no soda, no refined sugars, eat 5-8 meals/snacks a day...eat complex carbs(yams, sweet potatoes), about 1 g of protein per lb of body weight...so around 190(this will also help spare/slow down muscle loss while you are losing fat)...eat lots of fruits/vegetables...nuts...legumes...beans are excellent source of protein/fiber...you should consult nutrition portion of freetrainers I know they got lots of helpful info
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2004/11/10, 07:19 PM
YEah I do short High Intensity cardio sessions 3 times a week , on non-weightlifting days, and go as heavy as I can when i weight train. This, in combination with a strict, clean, caloric deficit has allowed me to see excellent fat loss while maintaining all of my muscle.
I've lost 74 lbs now in 9 months time, so I was able to find what worked for me very well.
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2004/11/20, 08:33 AM
Hi,
I am new here.
Quick question about the deadlift as I am only a beginner.
Should the bar be in contact with my legs ALL the way up, and ALL the way down when I deadlift?
I like the deadlift because the feeling of having a strong lower back is superb.
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2004/11/21, 04:16 PM
generally speaking yes because it's easier to learn the form and to do the exercise....but you can have it a couple inches away from your legs tho you're gonna be putting more stress on your lower back...for every inch it's further from your legs...it's gonna be more difficult ...
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2004/11/28, 07:24 PM
Yeah i generlaly don't like it right on top of my legs, but they say that you get more power when it's closer to you.
I usually have the bar about 2 inches away and it generally only hits my thighs, same on the way down.
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2004/12/07, 02:43 PM
I was taught to "feel the steel" with the front of my leg when setting up for a deadlift, though I don't always keep it in contact the whole way up.
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Only a man who knows what it is like to be defeated can reach down to the bottom of his soul and come up with the extra ounce of power it takes to win when the match is even.
steve
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2004/12/15, 05:58 PM
If I am reading correctly you set the bar down on the floor before going onto the next rep??? I did deadlifts for the first time yesterday I want to make I have the correct form.
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2004/12/15, 07:19 PM
correct me if i'm wrong, but if the bar touches you on way up, that creates friction which slows the bar down? If your butt is down, then your back won't come into play as much.
menace you don't use a conventional form of deadlift........so why are you talking about bar placement?
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/12/15, 09:01 PM
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Quoting from natalie4162:
If I am reading correctly you set the bar down on the floor before going onto the next rep??? I did deadlifts for the first time yesterday I want to make I have the correct form.
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That is up for personal preference. I've heard professionals say to set it down and reset form, then go again. And ive also heard the pros say you should just tap the ground and go back up, keeping tension.
I started off with setting the weight down every rep. But then i started just tapping the ground and feel I get a better workout from it.
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2004/12/15, 10:04 PM
deadlift is what it means, weight is "dead" not moving, if you tap then that helps cause it does cause a slight "bounce"
From a strength standpoint you should let the weight be dead. For bodybuilding constant tension is fine.
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/12/15, 10:06 PM
if you want constant tension......keep it 1in off the ground never let it touch.......thats tension......bumping it is like leting the bar riochet off your chest on bench.
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The following, has not be approved by the FDA or FT, it was not meant to diagnose,treat,or prevent any diease(s) Please consult a moderator or doctor before using any of the suggestions or comments.
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2004/12/16, 01:33 PM
It depends on what you are training for? if you are training for powerlifting or sport then quickly reset the grip and lift it from a dead stand still. If you are a body builder then touch and go. Also, the bar should not drag against the shins. It creates friction and slows the pull down. Start with the bar over the base of the toes and Pull up and back.
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2005/02/03, 10:20 AM
Anyone hit any big PRs lately in the DL?
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2005/02/03, 04:18 PM
Not really. I havent gone for a max yet. But, my rack pulls are getting better. Just under my knee cap I pulled 405lbs for 12 easy reps. I had at least 15 in me. I know I shouldnt have done more then 5 but I got carried away. Hey Gator did you hit 700 yet?
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2005/02/03, 06:33 PM
In the next month I am going to be working up to a 500lb 75lbs over my last PR. Last time I tried this I got the 500 to my knees.
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/03, 07:15 PM
this is going to sound weak compared to the rest of you but i hit 225 last month and i was proud of myself. 250 here i come :)
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if you get me started on quentin tarantino films, chances are you won't be able to shut me up.
excuses are really good for making you fat.
margarine is a liar who announces, "i am butter!"
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2005/02/03, 08:41 PM
Suddenly I am scared of you! LOL 225 is great!
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If you can itch your nose after arm day...do another set!
7707mutt@freetrainers.com
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2005/02/04, 09:30 AM
Just last night i pulled up 385. An improvement of 50 pounds since my last max a couple of months ago. I can't weight till I get to the really heavy weight.
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2005/02/04, 06:44 PM
Kat congratulations...very impressive...really puts a couple of guys at my gym in perspective(lol@one rare guy who actually deadlifts....he does 135 and screams as loud as he can...grunting and screaming....I almost broke out laughing one time...it'd be fine if at least it was a lot of weight for him but it's not...he was repping them out fairly easily...and does same thing workout after workout... i am so mean at times lol)
I tried to switch to a wider stance and went at it for a couple months with it...but surprise surprise I can't lift for crap with this technique..it feel extremely weird to me..Like I am way over the bar too far forward...and I usually had this explosiveness in my lower back to get the weight off the floor initially and then take over with my hams but it's not going with a wider stance...it feels like all hips and little back...so finally I switched back to my unique style of lifting last couple of workouts...as I been saying to each his own...narrow stance stiff legged deadlifts is how I perform a deadlift and I guess I'll just stick with it since I am having more success with it...I had a flu/cold part of that time so I don't know maybe that's why I had such disparity with the wider stance in terms of strength...but still...oh well...(don't know I had good 50-75 lb disparity and the sheer awkwardness made it seem even harder)....For example I couldn't lift last workout 635 of the floor with wider stance...when I switched to a narrow stance...I got it up twice...with slight tap on the bottom before the 2nd rep...felt like a mountain of difference with wide/narrow stance...
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2005/02/07, 03:51 AM
sorry guys that was my null post above.. or should i say Nulls.. didnt meant o double post either :O sorry!!
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Deadlift; why we do it
